The Wall

The President surrounds himself with such lovely people.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582c5d19e4b0e39c1fa71e48

Steve Bannon Suggests There Are Too Many Asian CEOs In Silicon Valley

Steve Bannon, the man President-elect Donald Trump has chosen to be his chief strategist, expressed dismay at the number of tech execs who are immigrants from Asia

?When two-thirds or three-quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think...? Bannon said. ?A country is more than an economy. We?re a civic society.?
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When companies from the US open factories in Mexico, it helps the Mexican economy. That lowers the immigration from Mexico to the US. It also means those jobs aren't directly in the US. However, US companies have to be competitive against other companies that are making goods outside the US. Part of that is competing on price. Having cheaper labor costs is a part of that. If we make it more expensive for US companies to make their products, then they will not be competitive internationally. They will then suffer in the long-term. Of course, that won't be visible until Trump is out of office. Most of the things he does are things that will hurt us after he is out of office. He is destroying our country's future.
 
tim said:
When companies from the US open factories in Mexico, it helps the Mexican economy. That lowers the immigration from Mexico to the US. It also means those jobs aren't directly in the US. However, US companies have to be competitive against other companies that are making goods outside the US. Part of that is competing on price. Having cheaper labor costs is a part of that. If we make it more expensive for US companies to make their products, then they will not be competitive internationally. They will then suffer in the long-term. Of course, that won't be visible until Trump is out of office. Most of the things he does are things that will hurt us after he is out of office. He is destroying our country's future.
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We tried that experiment (NAFTA) and it didn't live up to it's promises.  NAFTA triggered a bunch of unintended consequences and got the ball rolling on companies moving out of the US.

 
Free trade is great when countries leverage economic advantages they have to create more for all.

Those with fertile agricultural lands produce food, with renewable lumber produce lumber, rich mineral deposits produce minerals. etc.

What's really being produced when the economic advantage is a lower standard of living?
 
spootieho said:
tim said:
When companies from the US open factories in Mexico, it helps the Mexican economy. That lowers the immigration from Mexico to the US. It also means those jobs aren't directly in the US. However, US companies have to be competitive against other companies that are making goods outside the US. Part of that is competing on price. Having cheaper labor costs is a part of that. If we make it more expensive for US companies to make their products, then they will not be competitive internationally. They will then suffer in the long-term. Of course, that won't be visible until Trump is out of office. Most of the things he does are things that will hurt us after he is out of office. He is destroying our country's future.
Click to expand...
We tried that experiment (NAFTA) and it didn't live up to it's promises.  NAFTA triggered a bunch of unintended consequences and got the ball rolling on companies moving out of the US.
Click to expand...

If this is your worry, you should be all up in arms about trade with China. NAFTA is peanuts compared to that.
 
peppy said:
spootieho said:
tim said:
When companies from the US open factories in Mexico, it helps the Mexican economy. That lowers the immigration from Mexico to the US. It also means those jobs aren't directly in the US. However, US companies have to be competitive against other companies that are making goods outside the US. Part of that is competing on price. Having cheaper labor costs is a part of that. If we make it more expensive for US companies to make their products, then they will not be competitive internationally. They will then suffer in the long-term. Of course, that won't be visible until Trump is out of office. Most of the things he does are things that will hurt us after he is out of office. He is destroying our country's future.
Click to expand...
We tried that experiment (NAFTA) and it didn't live up to it's promises.  NAFTA triggered a bunch of unintended consequences and got the ball rolling on companies moving out of the US.
Click to expand...

If this is your worry, you should be all up in arms about trade with China. NAFTA is peanuts compared to that.
Click to expand...
A logical fallacy, but whatever... 

Point also went over your head.  NAFTA indirectly helped jumpstart China's rise.

I've pretty much always been against trade with China for various different reasons.
 
spootieho said:
peppy said:
spootieho said:
tim said:
When companies from the US open factories in Mexico, it helps the Mexican economy. That lowers the immigration from Mexico to the US. It also means those jobs aren't directly in the US. However, US companies have to be competitive against other companies that are making goods outside the US. Part of that is competing on price. Having cheaper labor costs is a part of that. If we make it more expensive for US companies to make their products, then they will not be competitive internationally. They will then suffer in the long-term. Of course, that won't be visible until Trump is out of office. Most of the things he does are things that will hurt us after he is out of office. He is destroying our country's future.
Click to expand...
We tried that experiment (NAFTA) and it didn't live up to it's promises.  NAFTA triggered a bunch of unintended consequences and got the ball rolling on companies moving out of the US.
Click to expand...

If this is your worry, you should be all up in arms about trade with China. NAFTA is peanuts compared to that.
Click to expand...
A logical fallacy, but whatever... 

Point also went over your head.  NAFTA indirectly helped jumpstart China's rise.

I've pretty much always been against trade with China for various different reasons.
Click to expand...

Nope. The rise of China as an exporting behemoth can be traced back to their participation in the WTO (NAFTA was way before that). China has maybe leached itself on the trade between Mexico and USA as the main supplier of raw materials but this is more of a recent thing. Pe?a Nieto wants a more cordial relationship with China so we will only see them play a bigger role when it comes to goods coming from Mexico.

 
peppy said:
Nope. The rise of China as an exporting behemoth can be traced back to their participation in the WTO (NAFTA was way before that). China has maybe leached itself on the trade between Mexico and USA as the main supplier of raw materials but this is more of a recent thing. Pe?a Nieto wants a more cordial relationship with China so we will only see them play a bigger role when it comes to goods coming from Mexico.
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I saw it happening first hand.  I suspect you didn't work in any industry affected.  My company at the time supplied circuitboard supplies to thousands of companies in orange county.

After NAFTA, many of those companies moved to Mexico.  Mexico turned out to be crap.  Delivery drivers to and from Mexico were constantly getting robbed, often by the Mexican police.  Those companies then moved to China.  By the end, we only had a few hundred customers. 

Quality in China was pure crap before these companies moved there.  China started improving their quality in the early 2000s.
 
spootieho said:
peppy said:
Nope. The rise of China as an exporting behemoth can be traced back to their participation in the WTO (NAFTA was way before that). China has maybe leached itself on the trade between Mexico and USA as the main supplier of raw materials but this is more of a recent thing. Pe?a Nieto wants a more cordial relationship with China so we will only see them play a bigger role when it comes to goods coming from Mexico.
Click to expand...
I saw it happening first hand.  I suspect you didn't work in any industry affected.  My company at the time supplied circuitboard supplies to thousands of companies in orange county.

After NAFTA, many of those companies moved to Mexico.  Mexico turned out to be crap.  Delivery drivers to and from Mexico were constantly getting robbed, often by the Mexican police.  Those companies then moved to China.  By the end, we only had a few hundred customers. 

Quality in China was pure crap before these companies moved there.  China started improving their quality in the early 2000s.
Click to expand...

Move to China only happened once they set up the infrastructure for it (entirely subsidized) and joined the WTO. My point is that this would have happened regardless of NAFTA.
 
peppy said:
Move to China only happened once they set up the infrastructure for it (entirely subsidized) and joined the WTO. My point is that this would have happened regardless of NAFTA.
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Sure it might have eventually happened anyways.  That doesn't mean that NAFTA didn't have any impact on it whatsoever.  I don't think we will come to agreement here so let's move off of that tangent. 

The NAFTA experiment did not meet our expectations.
 
All we hear about nowadays are the pros and cons of building a wall and whose going to pay for it.

This entire controversy would not exist if Mexico exercised control of its northern border in the same manner that Mexico controls its southern border.

Of course, Mexico can't stop all northbound migrants, but if they at least made a good faith effort, there would be no political will in this country to build a wall.

You wouldn't have to build a fence to keep your neighbor's dog from peeing on your lawn if your neighbor didn't let his dog pee on your lawn in the first place.
 
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