The Investigation

nosuchreality said:
I've give you that dogmatic Trump supporters are operating out of a alternate set of universe facts in many cases.  As I've said before I've seen many that don't even require a sniff test.

I also see the Dem side, they the koolaid just as bad.  The Dem propaganda is better polished but still plays the same tired knee jerk emotional chords.

It'll be an interesting mid-term, both parties are radicalizing towards the fringe.
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I disagree.  The equivalency is not even close.  The GOP is basically not doing anything more and letting Trump do whatever he wants.  Dems' problem has always been sticking to a specific set of goals and then having the backbone to carry them out.  Even when they get in power, they cannot unite to push through a proper agenda. 

I think Dems are in need of new blood and this new crop of candidates are promising.
 
Irvinecommuter is on the money here

Ultimately life boils down to relative value choices given the constraints you have

Just as buying in OH versus great park or Tustin legacy

On that relative value metric there is no contest as things stand today ? dems are a much better choice to control trumps worst impulses , since gop is now trumps party effectively
 
The primary reason Muller should be fired is that he's an unguided missile. Zip a dee doo dah has been produced on "Russian Interference and or Trump Collusion" with the election. Have their been guilty pleas? Sure. On things having nothing to do with the election.

In a best possible scenario, Trump fires Muller, et al, on a Monday, then re-hires him on Tuesday with a specific and narrow goal to answer this question ONLY - Was there collusion by the Trump election with Russia during the 2016 election? He can solve that question in a week or so.

But... but... Clinton was impeached for an affair... But... but Nixon was impeached for high crimes... No, dear reader, Clinton was impeached for lying under oath. Trump has never been deposed on this affair. As well, dear reader, Nixon was never impeached, but resigned to save the Presidency.

Nixon did some unethical things but his only crime (IMHO) was getting caught doing so. That doesn't make what was done right. It only means that many people in the resistance don't understand that every single administration is capable of what a Kennedy, a Johnson, a  Nixon, a Reagan, a Clinton, a Bush (I and II), or an Obama administration did while in power. Those most often opposed to what Trump has been accused of doing (or done in real life...) who think his behavior as new or unique must exist in a fantasy world, a bubble that will be popping soon. To underscore, I'm not saying "everyone does it, therefore it's right", only that I'm not surprised by it.

My .02c 
 
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Soylent Green Is People said:
The primary reason Muller should be fired is that he's an unguided missile. Zip a dee doo dah has been produced on "Russian Interference and or Trump Collusion" with the election. Have their been guilty pleas? Sure. On things having nothing to do with the election.

In a best possible scenario, Trump fires Muller, et al, on a Monday, then re-hires him on Tuesday with a specific and narrow goal to answer this question ONLY - Was there collusion by the Trump election with Russia during the 2016 election? He can solve that question in a week or so.

But... but... Clinton was impeached for an affair... But... but Nixon was impeached for high crimes... No, dear reader, Clinton was impeached for lying under oath. Trump has never been deposed on this affair. As well, dear reader, Nixon was never impeached, but resigned to save the Presidency. Nixon did some unethical things but his only crime (IMHO) was getting caught doing so.

My .02c
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Soylent Green Is People said:
The primary reason Muller should be fired is that he's an unguided missile. Zip a dee doo dah has been produced on "Russian Interference and or Trump Collusion" with the election. Have their been guilty pleas? Sure. On things having nothing to do with the election.

In a best possible scenario, Trump fires Muller, et al, on a Monday, then re-hires him on Tuesday with a specific and narrow goal to answer this question ONLY - Was there collusion by the Trump election with Russia during the 2016 election? He can solve that question in a week or so.

But... but... Clinton was impeached for an affair... But... but Nixon was impeached for high crimes... No, dear reader, Clinton was impeached for lying under oath. Trump has never been deposed on this affair. As well, dear reader, Nixon was never impeached, but resigned to save the Presidency.

Nixon did some unethical things but his only crime (IMHO) was getting caught doing so. That doesn't make what was done right. It only means that if you don't understand that every administration is capable of what a Kennedy, a Johnson, a Nixon, a Reagan, a Clinton, a Bush (I and II), or an Obama administration did while in power, you live in a fantasy world, a bubble that will be popping soon.

My .02c
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Hmmm...Clinton's impeachment came as a result of investigation that started with Ken Starr looking into the Whitewater dealing...and ended up with Monica Lewinsky.

Nixon's issue was not the Watergate break in...it was that he obstructed justice at the highest level.  That is what Trump is doing.

You understand that Mueller doesn't answer to Trump..he answers to Rosenstein.  Trump firing both of them to stop the investigation would be basically an admission of obstruction of justice.

I usually agree with Soy but man is this post off.
 
We're a-ok to disagree IrvineCommuter, as long as it's not disagreeable, and I modded the original post for clarity and less finger pointiness which was not my intention.

Yes, the Clinton impeachment also went way off the rails. That's a problem when a Special Counsel (SC)  is appointed. Same thing happened with the SC on Iran Contra. That one blew up the Bush 1/Clinton election when the SC indicted Casper Weinberger in June of 1992 - kinda like what Comey did with the whole Clinton E-mail deal with virtually the same timeline!  Since the Tang Menace has never been put under oath, chasing down his attorney data over what was a sordid affair isn't going to become an impeachable offense. Trump may be a cheezy guy, but that's not enough to impeach. It was in the case of Clinton as he was deposed and under oath. Once the lie was told, by a lawyer who should know better, there needed to be some penalty. Clinton was legally impeached, but not thrown from office, because I think those in the Senate at the time realized it was a pretty thin overall case to begin with.

Nixon obstructed justice. No quibble there. Is he the sole example of Presidential malfeasance? Hardly. If the same standards pushed on Nixon were applied to almost every other administration, they'd all be in jail. Perhaps that's not a bad thing after all......

The Special Counsel (SC) should have been hired for one job, and one job only - to determine if there was any credible collusion between the Trump campaign and a foreign power - that's the question to resolve. Do I care if Paul Manaforte was a paid agent of a foreign power? Not really. Do I care that Erik Prince was trying to establish a back channel to Russia right after the election, as every party and president does? No. I do not care.

I do care about the endless investigation process, spreading as far and as wide as possible without any check or balances - no matter the party in power. The SC is being used as noted by others to keep the anger going through the 2018 mid terms. That's wrong IMHO. If we need any clearer example, albeit in micro form, has anyone heard much about the Roy Moore child rape investigation lately? No. Since that election is over, there isn't going to be an investigation. My guess is that once the House flips in November, the same thing may occur.

This is all becoming much ado about nothing, for the ends justify the means in this case. That's our present situation and one I grow weary of day by day.
 
Soylent Green Is People said:
We're a-ok to disagree IrvineCommuter, as long as it's not disagreeable!

Yes, the Clinton impeachment also went way off the rails. That's a problem when a Special Counsel (SC)  is appointed. Same thing happened with the SC on Iran Contra. That one blew up the Bush 1/Clinton election when the SC indicted Casper Weinberger in June of 1992 - kinda like what Comey did with the whole Clinton E-mail deal with virtually the same timeline!  Since the Tang Menace has never been put under oath, chasing down his attorney data over what was a sordid affair isn't going to become an impeachable offense. Trump may be a cheezy guy, but that's not enough to impeach. It was in the case of Clinton as he was deposed and under oath. Once the lie was told, by a lawyer who should know better, there needed to be some penalty. Clinton was legally impeached, but not thrown from office, because I think those in the Senate at the time realized it was a pretty thin overall case to begin with.

Nixon obstructed justice. No quibble there. Is he the sole example of Presidential malfeasance? Hardly. If the same standards pushed on Nixon were applied to almost every other administration, they'd all be in jail. Perhaps that's not a bad thing after all......

The Special Counsel (SC) should have been hired for one job, and one job only - to determine if there was any credible collusion between the Trump campaign and a foreign power - that's the question to resolve. Do I care if Paul Manaforte was a paid agent of a foreign power? Not really. Do I care that Erik Prince was trying to establish a back channel to Russia right after the election, as every party and president does? No. I do not care.

I do care about the endless investigation process, spreading as far and as wide as possible without any check or balances - no matter the party in power. The SC is being used as noted by others to keep the anger going through the 2018 mid terms. That's wrong IMHO. If we need any clearer example, albeit in micro form, has anyone heard much about the Roy Moore child rape investigation lately? No. Since that election is over, there isn't going to be an investigation. My guess is that once the House flips in November, the same thing may occur.

This is all becoming much ado about nothing, for the ends justify the means in this case. That's our present situation.
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I would just say that we know like 10% of what Mueller is doing.
 
There is also a second investigation going on to determine whether the FBI/DOJ abused their power.  Sessions is doing more behind the scenes than most Republicans give him credit for.  The inspector general is doing the investigating and Sessions has appointed a US Attorney as a special prosecutor to handle criminal referrals from the IG.  There's also likely a grand jury seated.

Andy McCabe's firing for lying under oath 4 separate times was just scratching the surface.  He is the first casualty of the IG's investigation.  Things are about to get real for all the swamp players that thought the law didn't apply to them.  I'm curious whether Comey will be swept up in it or not.  We know he leaked illegally, so what else has he done?

If we only know 10% of what Mueller is doing, we've only heard about 2% of what the IG/Special Prosecutor/Grand Jury are working on.  The IG's first set of reports was due to come out in March/April and we are already half way through April, so some more bombshells are coming soon to a theater near you.
 
NOTHINGBURGER JUST GOT A LOT MEATIER!

Trump's Lawyer May Have Stored 'Gold Mine' Of Recorded Conversations: Report
HuffPost  Nick Visser,HuffPost 14 hours ago
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President Donald Trump?s longtime personal attorney Michael Cohen was known to tape conversations with associates and store them ? and Trump?s allies are now worried the FBI has those files after raiding Cohen?s offices this week, The Washington Post reported Thursday.

An unidentified Trump adviser told the outlet that Cohen, who has worked with Trump for decades, had a ?proclivity to make tapes? of private conversations and store them digitally.

The Post said it was unclear if Cohen had taped any conversations with Trump. But a source said it was Cohen?s ?standard practice? to play recordings for the president that he?d made of other top advisers. New York is a one-party consent state, meaning Cohen could legally record any phone conversation without the other person?s knowledge.

Experts described the recordings as a potential ?gold mine? in interviews with the Post, saying that if they exist and are admissible in court, they could prove extremely valuable to prosecutors.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-apos-lawyer-may-stored-005121624.html
 
and if if's and buts were sugar and nuts...

"Experts described the recordings as a potential ?gold mine? in interviews with the Post, saying that if they exist and are admissible in court, they could prove extremely valuable to prosecutors."
 
fortune11 said:
SNL beautifully captures everything in last weekends cold open.  Absolutely hilarious
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1iCm8tYX-Vw
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His Trump impersonation was fun the first 2-3 times, but it's gotten seriously repetitive.  I tried watching SNL a couple of times when the latest season started and it was just plain boring.  Nothing to laugh at.  I would much rather watch old reruns of Key & Peele.
 
Liar Loan said:
fortune11 said:
SNL beautifully captures everything in last weekends cold open.  Absolutely hilarious
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1iCm8tYX-Vw
Click to expand...

His Trump impersonation was fun the first 2-3 times, but it's gotten seriously repetitive.  I tried watching SNL a couple of times when the latest season started and it was just plain boring.  Nothing to laugh at.  I would much rather watch old reruns of Key & Peele.
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I have to agree w you and Trump on that - I think Hammond would be a much better impersonator than Alec Baldwin

But it is still a very funny skit owing to the excellent writers at SNL

and man, that Fox News host (Leslie Jones) is just too good :)
 
fortune11 said:
Liar Loan said:
fortune11 said:
SNL beautifully captures everything in last weekends cold open.  Absolutely hilarious
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1iCm8tYX-Vw
Click to expand...

His Trump impersonation was fun the first 2-3 times, but it's gotten seriously repetitive.  I tried watching SNL a couple of times when the latest season started and it was just plain boring.  Nothing to laugh at.  I would much rather watch old reruns of Key & Peele.
Click to expand...

I have to agree w you and Trump on that - I think Hammond would be a much better impersonator than Alec Baldwin

But it is still a very funny skit owing to the excellent writers at SNL

and man, that Fox News host (Leslie Jones) is just too good :)
Click to expand...

I'll watch this skit since you've recommended it.
 
What's up w the party of family values and all these pornstars / playmates

Trump Lawyer Arranged GOP Fundraiser's Payment to Playmate: WSJ
By Jeffrey D Grocott

-- Michael Cohen, the longtime personal lawyer to President Donald Trump who arranged a nondisclosure payment to porn actress Stormy Daniels, also helped a top Republican donor negotiate a payment to a former Playboy Playmate, the Wall Street Journal reported.
The fundraiser, Elliott Broidy, agreed in late 2017 to pay $1.6 million to the woman, who said she had been impregnated by Broidy, the paper said, citing people familiar with the matter.
The deal prohibited the Los Angeles woman from disclosing the alleged relationship with Broidy, the paper said. The woman chose to terminate the pregnancy, Broidy said in a statement supplied to the Journal.
The Broidy agreement used the pseudonyms David Dennison and Peggy Peterson, the paper reported. Those were the same pseudonyms used in the agreement that Cohen arranged for Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford. That deal, which Trump didn?t sign, is the subject of a continuing arbitration and court battle.
Broidy and Cohen serve as deputy fundraising chairs for the Republican National Committee.
 
fortune11 said:
What's up w the party of family values and all these pornstars / playmates

Trump Lawyer Arranged GOP Fundraiser's Payment to Playmate: WSJ
By Jeffrey D Grocott

-- Michael Cohen, the longtime personal lawyer to President Donald Trump who arranged a nondisclosure payment to porn actress Stormy Daniels, also helped a top Republican donor negotiate a payment to a former Playboy Playmate, the Wall Street Journal reported.
The fundraiser, Elliott Broidy, agreed in late 2017 to pay $1.6 million to the woman, who said she had been impregnated by Broidy, the paper said, citing people familiar with the matter.
The deal prohibited the Los Angeles woman from disclosing the alleged relationship with Broidy, the paper said. The woman chose to terminate the pregnancy, Broidy said in a statement supplied to the Journal.
The Broidy agreement used the pseudonyms David Dennison and Peggy Peterson, the paper reported. Those were the same pseudonyms used in the agreement that Cohen arranged for Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford. That deal, which Trump didn?t sign, is the subject of a continuing arbitration and court battle.
Broidy and Cohen serve as deputy fundraising chairs for the Republican National Committee.
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So after the unprecedented step of raiding the President's lawyer's office, the leaks have already begun.  Their motives are becoming transparent now.
 
Ha  Ha  Ha  .... this is unbelievable ....  how can anyone  top this comedy

Sean Hannity Is Named as Cohen?s Third Client: Cohen Update

A gasp was heard in the courtroom when a Cohen lawyer disclosed the name of the third client: Sean Hannity.
Hannity is a Fox News host and has been one of the president?s most vocal on-air defenders. and a critic of Mueller?s probe. Trump often calls Hannity after his Fox News program, according to media reports.
?I understand he doesn?t want his name out there, but that isn?t the law,? Judge Wood said
 
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