Tragic shooting in San Bernardino

[Irvinecommuter]

I think so far he seems more like the tag along trying to endear himself to his few real friends than a terrorist mastermind.

Yep, he bought guns, so did the Sandy Hook mom.  Yep he talked smack with the shooter.  Yep he "converted" to Islam.  Yep he potentially has a sham marriage and J1 visa Russian bride to the older brothers wife's sister. Dreamed of getting in shape and enlisting in navy like the older brother.

Are you starting to see the puppy pattern?

A rabid puppy, but still a puppy. And sadly rabid.

It's the same mentality...ISIS is just a really big version of street gangs...cartels ran Columbia, Venezula, and Central America and Mexican gangs have much power.  They all feed off the poor and desperation...

 

[peppy]

I respectfully disagree.  Our ridiculous attempt at zero tolerance for offending anyone in the slightest is dangerous. 

It's not dangerous to strive for an inclusive and tolerant society.

 

[Happiness]

I'm for the following:

Sending Asians back to their countries, blacks back to Africa and whites back to Europe. That way is Mexicans stay behind and California and reclaim what is rightfully ours.

Viva Mexico! Viva la raza!

Your ancestors were Bering Sea pedestrians.  They walked over from Asia the last time sea levels were low enough to do it.  Mexicans would have to go back to Siberia.

 

[morekaos]

I respectfully disagree.  Our ridiculous attempt at zero tolerance for offending anyone in the slightest is dangerous. 

It's not dangerous to strive for an inclusive and tolerant society.

Striving is a wonderful thought but when "common sense" gets thrown out the window in blind pursuit for perfection we have to step back and accept that we will NEVER be perfect and accept some "inequality" as reality.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I respectfully disagree.  Our ridiculous attempt at zero tolerance for offending anyone in the slightest is dangerous. 

It's not dangerous to strive for an inclusive and tolerant society.

I see both sides of this but to me, safety overrides tolerance... and even privacy.

 

[iacrenter]

I respectfully disagree.  Our ridiculous attempt at zero tolerance for offending anyone in the slightest is dangerous. 

It's not dangerous to strive for an inclusive and tolerant society.

I see both sides of this but to me, safety overrides tolerance... and even privacy.

While I'm generally a pro safety guy, we must have a balance between security and civil liberties. When political leaders play on public fears and ignore constitutional protections very bad things become policy:
http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/japanese-american-relocation

 

[morekaos]

Not one politician (including Trump) has mentioned internment...that's hyperbolic.  The countries that have let them  in already have such a system in place...

 

[peppy]

temporary housing != internment

 

[morekaos]

Some of those camps have existed for decades.  The newer camps in eastern Europe will probably be there for a long time. Technical internment without calling it that, pure semantics.

 

[morekaos]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-23492481

Life in Zaatari - Jordan's vast camp for Syrian refugees

A year ago, it was forbidding desert terrain dotted with empty tents whipped by a scorching wind.

"No-one would want to live here," the UN's Andrew Harper admitted bluntly to the small gathering of Jordanian officials, foreign diplomats and aid workers who assembled under an awning for the opening of Jordan's first official Syrian refugee camp at Zaatari.

Now it is Jordan's fourth largest city.

And nobody wants to live there.

"On that day it opened we simply had no idea it would grow so big, so fast," one UN official told me on a recent visit to the camp, which has mushroomed into a vast crowded canvas dissected - with growing difficulty - by orderly grids drawn up by the world's aid agencies.

Few expected Syria's war to drag on so long, cause so much suffering, cost so many lives. The death toll is now 100,000 and counting.

 

[iacrenter]

Some of those camps have existed for decades.  The newer camps in eastern Europe will probably be there for a long time. Technical internment without calling it that, pure semantics.

Internment camps and refugee camps are both bad places to live and you are forced to be there. I get it. Beyond that I think there is big difference when your own government sanctions racial discrimination against their own citizens and imprisons them against their will.

 

[morekaos]

Some of those camps have existed for decades.  The newer camps in eastern Europe will probably be there for a long time. Technical internment without calling it that, pure semantics.

Internment camps and refugee camps are both bad places to live and you are forced to be there. I get it. Beyond that I think there is big difference when your own government sanctions racial discrimination against their own citizens and imprisons them against their will.

Again I think we are having a discussion  over the minutia of the terms.  Clearly these camps are cordoned off areas to house, corral or "intern" a specific group of people.  All sanctioned by the government and in fact administered by them.  These "non citizens" are not allowed to just go anywhere they want unchecked. Its about as close to true interment you can get without outright calling it that.

 

[iacrenter]

Not one politician (including Trump) has mentioned internment...that's hyperbolic.  The countries that have let them  in already have such a system in place...

At least not yet. Wait till the next attack on American soil. The calls for more security and less civil liberty will be loud. Mr Trump doesn't have the balls to standup to the lynch mob. He will be the first to tweet support for new internment camps and watch lists for all Muslims.

 

[morekaos]

That's partially my argument.  Those countries that have let the refugees in fairly freely have de-facto put them into internment camps.  They just skipped a step, but the end result is the same just under a more politically acceptable name of "refugee camps".

 

[iacrenter]

Some of those camps have existed for decades.  The newer camps in eastern Europe will probably be there for a long time. Technical internment without calling it that, pure semantics.

Internment camps and refugee camps are both bad places to live and you are forced to be there. I get it. Beyond that I think there is big difference when your own government sanctions racial discrimination against their own citizens and imprisons them against their will.

Again I think we are having a discussion  over the minutia of the terms.  Clearly these camps are cordoned off areas to house, corral or "intern" a specific group of people.  All sanctioned by the government and in fact administered by them.  These "non citizens" are not allowed to just go anywhere they want unchecked. Its about as close to true interment you can get without outright calling it that.

Again I agree they are being forced to be there by local EU government.

Are these EU citizens?
Were these people forced out of their homes by the EU?
Is there only one racial group being singled out and being placed in these camps?

 

[morekaos]

But most of the discussion and controversy has been about "refugees".  We have to deal with the citizens separately.  Again, all these country's that have allowed somewhat unchecked immigration have warehoused these immigrants in camps.  Whether you call it a refugee camp or internment camp is irrelevant to those on that side of the fence.

 

[iacrenter]

But most of the discussion and controversy has been about "refugees".  We have to deal with the citizens separately.  Again, all these country's that have allowed somewhat unchecked immigration have warehoused these immigrants in camps.  Whether you call it a refugee camp or internment camp is irrelevant to those on that side of the fence.

My whole last post was specifically regarding your comparison of Japanese American internment camps during WWII vs EU refugee camps today.

I agree we need to have a comprehensive security effort that addresses both immigration and domestic threats. The policies will probably differ for US vs non US citizens. I just hope the US Constitution doen't get forgotten in the discussion.

 

[nosuchreality]

While I think the discussion around what to do with foreign nationals while we haven't formally declared war on a Stateless entity is interesting, I'll remind people that the principal antagonist was born in Chicago to a naturalized citizen and grew up and went to high school in the SB area.

That said, President Carter did what Trump proposed to People from Iran.

 

[eyephone]

While I think the discussion around what to do with foreign nationals while we haven't formally declared war on a Stateless entity is interesting, I'll remind people that the principal antagonist was born in Chicago to a naturalized citizen and grew up and went to high school in the SB area.

That said, President Carter did what Trump proposed to People from Iran.

You forgot to mention he went to Cal State Fullerton.

 

[iacrenter]

While I think the discussion around what to do with foreign nationals while we haven't formally declared war on a Stateless entity is interesting, I'll remind people that the principal antagonist was born in Chicago to a naturalized citizen and grew up and went to high school in the SB area.

That said, President Carter did what Trump proposed to People from Iran.

You forgot to mention he went to Cal State Fullerton.

I think we should ban anyone from Chicago, SB, and all CSF alumni. That shoulder cover it. Maybe on second thought, ban everyone west of the Mississippi too.