Presidential Elections
- Thread starter eyephone
- Start date
lowlyirvinerenter
New member
If people have gone to jail, it might not be public knowledge. Some previous state department employees did use personal emails, but for only a few handful of emails. This was done by Colin Powell for one or two emails that were retroactively classified and some staffers of Condoleezza Rice (Rice did not use emails at all).
AFAIK this is the first case where the Secretary of State used a personal email server for most emails sent.
AFAIK this is the first case where the Secretary of State used a personal email server for most emails sent.
tim
New member
HomeOwner Irvine said:
From what I can tell, email on her server did not include info that was classified at the time. Some has been marked as classified since the whole thing became known.
And people don't go to jail over sending 1 single classified email. Hyperbole much?
What she did violates department policies, but doesn't appear to reach the level of breaking a law.
tim said:
Before you make your own conclusion. It's more than just an email. Read this article.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/22-hillary-clinton-emails-declared-top-secret-218420
hoofhearted
New member
When recently has the GOP gone on a path of exclusion? The media certainly has dishonestly painted a picture of exclusion, but is there really one? I'd think that the GOP treats races much more equally today than the democrats do. When the media starts telling us that the GOP is anti-mexican because it is anti-illegal immigrant, well that implies that all Mexicans are illegal immigrants. Simple minded people easily buy into that. If I was Mexican, I'd be pissed that I was grouped with the illegals. Then we are told that if you are born with darker skin that we will need help to get ahead in society. Wow.eyephone said:
What about the politicians that think legal immigrants are bad, and illegal immigrants are good?
Anyways, I get your point, though. The GOP needs to effectively battle the media on that.
morekaos
Well-known member
We live in Cali so if you are Republican your vote in a national election is pointless. I could vote for Jesus Christ himself and my candidate would lose in this state. Now locally my vote matters but on the national level this is all theater to me. I vote on the national level because it gives me the right to bitch. Other than that I love the show, I watch from the audience.
lowlyirvinerenter
New member
tim said:
It seems you haven't followed the story or don't deem it important enough. She sent not one but over a hundred classified emails. A secretary of state should know better, especially someone that has been a public figure her entire adult life. Her actions are just arrogance and banking on people who just don't care enough.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-on-her-private-server-wrote-104-emails-the-government-says-are-classified/2016/03/05/11e2ee06-dbd6-11e5-81ae-7491b9b9e7df_story.html
morekaos
Well-known member
Agreed, not only should she have known they were "classified" whether they were marked as such or not, much of the top secret information had to physically be moved from a classified server over to her by "someone"
Clinton and her top aides had access to a Pentagon-run classified network that goes up to the Secret level, as well as a separate system used for Top Secret communications.
The two systems ? the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network (SIPRNet) and Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System (JWICS) ? are not connected to the unclassified system, known as the Non-Classified Internet Protocol Router Network (NIPRNet). You cannot e-mail from one system to the other, though you can use NIPRNet to send ?e-mails outside the government.
Somehow, highly classified information from SIPRNet, as well as even the super-secure JWICS, jumped from those closed systems to the open system and turned up in at least 1,340 of Clinton?s home e-mails ? including several the CIA earlier this month flagged as containing ultra-secret Sensitive Compartmented Information and Special Access Programs, a subset of SCI. ?
FBI agents are zeroing in on three of Clinton?s top department aides. Most of the Clinton e-mails deemed classified by intelligence agency reviewers were sent to her by her chief of staff Cheryl Mills or deputy chiefs Huma Abedin and Jake Sullivan.
Clinton and her top aides had access to a Pentagon-run classified network that goes up to the Secret level, as well as a separate system used for Top Secret communications.
The two systems ? the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network (SIPRNet) and Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System (JWICS) ? are not connected to the unclassified system, known as the Non-Classified Internet Protocol Router Network (NIPRNet). You cannot e-mail from one system to the other, though you can use NIPRNet to send ?e-mails outside the government.
Somehow, highly classified information from SIPRNet, as well as even the super-secure JWICS, jumped from those closed systems to the open system and turned up in at least 1,340 of Clinton?s home e-mails ? including several the CIA earlier this month flagged as containing ultra-secret Sensitive Compartmented Information and Special Access Programs, a subset of SCI. ?
FBI agents are zeroing in on three of Clinton?s top department aides. Most of the Clinton e-mails deemed classified by intelligence agency reviewers were sent to her by her chief of staff Cheryl Mills or deputy chiefs Huma Abedin and Jake Sullivan.
morekaos
Well-known member
This is not a slap on the wrist offense. The Secretary of State has a legal obligation to recognize and handle top secret material whether marked or not without negligence. Signing the non-disclosure document when she took office obligates her with prosecutable consequences.
As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton signed a nondisclosure agreement in which she acknowledged that classified information is classified regardless of whether it is ?marked or unmarked? ? a distinction which undermines one of the Democratic presidential candidate?s main defenses of her use of a home-brew email system.
The NDA signed by Mrs. Clinton as Secretary of State is significant because the State Department has never publicly acknowledged that she signed documents, confirming she was "advised that the unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling" of top secret material was a punishable offense.
The use of a private server for government business, on its face, is a clear violation of the NDA agreement.
The NDA goes on to say -- "I have been advised that the unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling of SCI by me could cause irreparable injury to the United States or be used to advantage by foreign nationals."
This summer the intelligence community's inspector general or ICIG reviewed a random sample from Clinton's server used for government business. The rules are straight forward: the agencies that obtain the intelligence have final say on classification matters, and the affected agencies confirmed to the ICIG that four emails contained classified information that did not originate with the State Department. Two of the emails contained Top Secret/SCI material -- the most highly classified. "Sensitive Compartmented" material has limited access, and requires security clearance holders to sign additional paper work, "to be read in, and off" the project. This second NDA is designed to reinforce how important it is to protect the information as well as sources and methods.
As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton signed a nondisclosure agreement in which she acknowledged that classified information is classified regardless of whether it is ?marked or unmarked? ? a distinction which undermines one of the Democratic presidential candidate?s main defenses of her use of a home-brew email system.
The NDA signed by Mrs. Clinton as Secretary of State is significant because the State Department has never publicly acknowledged that she signed documents, confirming she was "advised that the unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling" of top secret material was a punishable offense.
The use of a private server for government business, on its face, is a clear violation of the NDA agreement.
The NDA goes on to say -- "I have been advised that the unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling of SCI by me could cause irreparable injury to the United States or be used to advantage by foreign nationals."
This summer the intelligence community's inspector general or ICIG reviewed a random sample from Clinton's server used for government business. The rules are straight forward: the agencies that obtain the intelligence have final say on classification matters, and the affected agencies confirmed to the ICIG that four emails contained classified information that did not originate with the State Department. Two of the emails contained Top Secret/SCI material -- the most highly classified. "Sensitive Compartmented" material has limited access, and requires security clearance holders to sign additional paper work, "to be read in, and off" the project. This second NDA is designed to reinforce how important it is to protect the information as well as sources and methods.
Politico Reports Office Of Director Of National Intelligence Found The Emails Were Not Top Secret, Overruling IG IC. Politico reported later on November 6 that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence has now overruled the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community's prior conclusion that two emails received by Clinton contained highly classified information. As Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American Scientists explained to Politico, this "mistake" is nothing short than "astonishing" because "t was a transformative event in the presidential campaign to this point. It had a potential to derail Clinton's presidential candidacy." From the article:
The U.S. intelligence community has retreated from claims that two emails in Hillary Clinton's private account contained top secret information, a source familiar with the situation told POLITICO.
The determination came from Director of National Intelligence James Clapper's office and concluded that the two emails did not include highly classified intelligence secrets. Concerns about the emails' classification helped trigger an on-going FBI inquiry into Clinton's private email set-up.
Intelligence Community Inspector General I. Charles McCullough III made the claim that two of the emails contained top secret information, the State Department publicly stated its disagreement and asked Clapper's office to referee the dispute. Now, that disagreement has been resolved in State's favor, said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Intelligence officials claimed one email in Clinton's account was classified because it contained information from a top secret intelligence community "product" or report, but a further review determined that the report was not issued until several days after the email in question was written, the source said.
"The initial determination was based on a flawed process," the source said. "There was an intelligence product people thought [one of the emails] was based on, but that actually postdated the email in question." [Politico, 11/6/15]
The U.S. intelligence community has retreated from claims that two emails in Hillary Clinton's private account contained top secret information, a source familiar with the situation told POLITICO.
The determination came from Director of National Intelligence James Clapper's office and concluded that the two emails did not include highly classified intelligence secrets. Concerns about the emails' classification helped trigger an on-going FBI inquiry into Clinton's private email set-up.
Intelligence Community Inspector General I. Charles McCullough III made the claim that two of the emails contained top secret information, the State Department publicly stated its disagreement and asked Clapper's office to referee the dispute. Now, that disagreement has been resolved in State's favor, said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Intelligence officials claimed one email in Clinton's account was classified because it contained information from a top secret intelligence community "product" or report, but a further review determined that the report was not issued until several days after the email in question was written, the source said.
"The initial determination was based on a flawed process," the source said. "There was an intelligence product people thought [one of the emails] was based on, but that actually postdated the email in question." [Politico, 11/6/15]
morekaos
Well-known member
That was in November of last year. Since then there have been week after week of top secret revelations. Not just from the FBI or Justice but from the White House itself just a couple of weeks ago..
Obama Administration Confirms Hillary Clinton?s Home Server Contained ?Top Secret? Emails
January 29, 2016 11:04 PM
WASHINGTON (CBSNewYork/AP) ? The Obama administration confirmed for the first time Friday that Hillary Clinton?s unsecured home server contained closely guarded government secrets, censoring 22 emails with material requiring one of the highest levels of classification.
As CBS2?s Dick Brennan reported, the bombshell revelation came just three days before the Iowa presidential nominating caucuses in which Clinton is a candidate.
Department officials also said the agency?s Diplomatic Security and Intelligence and Research bureaus will investigate whether any of the information was classified at the time of transmission, going to the heart of one of Clinton?s primary defenses of her email practices.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/01/29/hillary-clinton-top-secret-emails/
Obama Administration Confirms Hillary Clinton?s Home Server Contained ?Top Secret? Emails
January 29, 2016 11:04 PM
WASHINGTON (CBSNewYork/AP) ? The Obama administration confirmed for the first time Friday that Hillary Clinton?s unsecured home server contained closely guarded government secrets, censoring 22 emails with material requiring one of the highest levels of classification.
As CBS2?s Dick Brennan reported, the bombshell revelation came just three days before the Iowa presidential nominating caucuses in which Clinton is a candidate.
Department officials also said the agency?s Diplomatic Security and Intelligence and Research bureaus will investigate whether any of the information was classified at the time of transmission, going to the heart of one of Clinton?s primary defenses of her email practices.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/01/29/hillary-clinton-top-secret-emails/
Just like it has been revealed that this practice did not start with Clinton. Especially enlightening is former secretary Colin Powell's take on this.
The State Department's internal investigation arm issued a final memorandum today on the email practices of past and current secretaries of state, and it said definitively that past secretaries handled classified material on unclassified email systems.
The same claims were made in an early February memo when the State Department's inspector general first announced it was conducting a records review related to the email accounts of five secretaries of state -- Madeline Albright, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry -- and their immediate staff.
After closely examining a number of potentially sensitive emails with help from State Department and Intelligence Community officials, the State Department's inspector general concluded that 12 emails contain "national security information classified at the Secret or Confidential levels." Additionally, it was determined none of the emails contained intelligence information, meaning it was classified for other reasons.
The emails in question, as the inspector general has previously stated, came from Secretary Powell's personal email account and personal email accounts of Secretary Rice's immediate staff.
In a recent statements to ABC News, Powell disputed the claims.
"I have reviewed the messages and I do not see what makes them classified." Powell said. "The emails were from my Executive Assistant and forwarded messages sent by two of our Ambassadors to State Department staff members. My Executive Assistant thought I should see them in a timely manner so sent them to my personal account. Both messages were unclassified. There was no reason not to forward them in this manner. ... The Ambassadors did not believe the contents were Confidential at the time and they were sent as unclassified. That is a fact. While they have not yet clarified this point, the State Department cannot now say they were classified then because they weren't. If the Department wishes to say a dozen years later they should have been classified that is an opinion of the Department that I do not share."
The State Department's internal investigation arm issued a final memorandum today on the email practices of past and current secretaries of state, and it said definitively that past secretaries handled classified material on unclassified email systems.
The same claims were made in an early February memo when the State Department's inspector general first announced it was conducting a records review related to the email accounts of five secretaries of state -- Madeline Albright, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry -- and their immediate staff.
After closely examining a number of potentially sensitive emails with help from State Department and Intelligence Community officials, the State Department's inspector general concluded that 12 emails contain "national security information classified at the Secret or Confidential levels." Additionally, it was determined none of the emails contained intelligence information, meaning it was classified for other reasons.
The emails in question, as the inspector general has previously stated, came from Secretary Powell's personal email account and personal email accounts of Secretary Rice's immediate staff.
In a recent statements to ABC News, Powell disputed the claims.
"I have reviewed the messages and I do not see what makes them classified." Powell said. "The emails were from my Executive Assistant and forwarded messages sent by two of our Ambassadors to State Department staff members. My Executive Assistant thought I should see them in a timely manner so sent them to my personal account. Both messages were unclassified. There was no reason not to forward them in this manner. ... The Ambassadors did not believe the contents were Confidential at the time and they were sent as unclassified. That is a fact. While they have not yet clarified this point, the State Department cannot now say they were classified then because they weren't. If the Department wishes to say a dozen years later they should have been classified that is an opinion of the Department that I do not share."
morekaos
Well-known member
NONE of those previous Secretary's set up their own private server, and any emails sent were few and not exclusively on their private server....it's not nearly the same to compare
Hillary Clinton's exclusive use of a non-government email account to send messages to her staff during her time as Secretary of State is a break from what other top officials have done, raising concerns from both Democrats and Republicans about the propriety of the practice.
Aides to former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and former President George W. Bush said neither official routinely sent e-mails to staffers while they held those posts. Rice "did not use her personal e-mail for official communication as Secretary" and instead exclusively used her State Department account, according to a top aide who did not want to be quoted publicly.
Attorney General Eric Holder regularly uses his government account, according to spokesman Brian Fallon, as does Valerie Jarrett, one of President Barack Obama's top advisers.
As Clinton aides have noted, Colin Powell did regularly use a personal e-mail account while Secretary of State.
A Powell aide confirmed that information, saying, "General Powell used a personal email account during his tenure as Secretary of State. He was not aware of any restrictions nor does he recall being made aware of any over the four years he served at State."
"There is shock at what Secretary Clinton did because the most likely explanation of her intent seems clear ? she created a system designed to avoid accountability, potentially in violation of the law," said John Wonderlich, policy director of the non-partisan Sunlight Foundation.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/hillary-clintons-personal-email-use-differed-other-top-officials-n316611
Hillary Clinton's exclusive use of a non-government email account to send messages to her staff during her time as Secretary of State is a break from what other top officials have done, raising concerns from both Democrats and Republicans about the propriety of the practice.
Aides to former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and former President George W. Bush said neither official routinely sent e-mails to staffers while they held those posts. Rice "did not use her personal e-mail for official communication as Secretary" and instead exclusively used her State Department account, according to a top aide who did not want to be quoted publicly.
Attorney General Eric Holder regularly uses his government account, according to spokesman Brian Fallon, as does Valerie Jarrett, one of President Barack Obama's top advisers.
As Clinton aides have noted, Colin Powell did regularly use a personal e-mail account while Secretary of State.
A Powell aide confirmed that information, saying, "General Powell used a personal email account during his tenure as Secretary of State. He was not aware of any restrictions nor does he recall being made aware of any over the four years he served at State."
"There is shock at what Secretary Clinton did because the most likely explanation of her intent seems clear ? she created a system designed to avoid accountability, potentially in violation of the law," said John Wonderlich, policy director of the non-partisan Sunlight Foundation.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/hillary-clintons-personal-email-use-differed-other-top-officials-n316611
tim
New member
I agree that she should not have set up the server. But, again, it does not yet appear to rise to the level of criminality. In that Politico article from January it said, ?These documents were not marked classified at the time they were sent,? Kirby said in a statement.
BBC has a pretty good article on it today:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35722882
Did she make a bad decision? Yes. Everyone has made lots of those. Whomever you are voting for has made some bad decisions. We have to elect SOMEONE for President. The elected person will be flawed. So we all decide how to view the candidates' flaws and bad decisions.
BBC has a pretty good article on it today:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35722882
Did she make a bad decision? Yes. Everyone has made lots of those. Whomever you are voting for has made some bad decisions. We have to elect SOMEONE for President. The elected person will be flawed. So we all decide how to view the candidates' flaws and bad decisions.
lowlyirvinerenter
New member
This exact discussion shows how polarized our country has become. We start ignoring facts to support "our" candidate rather than accept when something is just plain wrong. What Hillary Clinton did is just plain wrong. Period. When a person has to evoke that someone else did it so her breaking of the law is not a big deal, we know something is wrong. Also, her aides cite Powell and Rice, who BTW sent a handful of emails, one personally sent by Powell and a few by Rice's aides, note Rice did not use email at all.
In this case, Clinton sent emails through a private server, not one, not a handful but hundreds. Over a hundred of those emails were deemed classified and many were deemed top secret (highest level of classification). I would hate to have a president that ignores common sense and does what s/he thinks best because it suits them. Let's remember that Obama was a big fan of his iPhone when he came into office, but he swapped it out for a Blackberry because it was required by the Secret Service.
In this case, Clinton sent emails through a private server, not one, not a handful but hundreds. Over a hundred of those emails were deemed classified and many were deemed top secret (highest level of classification). I would hate to have a president that ignores common sense and does what s/he thinks best because it suits them. Let's remember that Obama was a big fan of his iPhone when he came into office, but he swapped it out for a Blackberry because it was required by the Secret Service.