Juniper by Pulte (Beacon Park)

[AW]

Free or not...Pulte was able to sell Lot 1 over the weekend, maybe that should read "only able"? 
They're also re-strategizing a little bit; on lot 6 and lot 13 the buyer can now choose which floor plan to select for the lot, subject to some restriction.

Sounds great. Can't wait until they all become custom homes. Like Newport, hehe.
First time I've heard of this happening on a Irvine tract home

 

[Newbie13]

haha I guess in irvine, outside of SC, that is considered custom.

Lots 2,4 and 5 are framed (meaning of course options have already been preselected) and the sales rep indicated that there is plenty of room for negotiation on those lots.  Basically said 30K will be taken off list price off the bat; granted they put in 50k-100k of upgrades in those homes so that is reflected dollar for dollar in the list price.  But really the final question from sales after telling us that 30K would be taken off no haggle and seeing our unconvinced faces, was "well what would it take for me to get this home sold to you today" (we were not the ones who purchased lot 1)

I would happily fork over the extra MR for some decent lots. (Although someone educate me as to why HOA is so expensive for the 1 dinky pool that 1029 households have to share - I'm currently in a TIC community and cannot complain about the amenitites.  I know I know I'm supposed to build my own pool on my "awesome" lot but the banks gonna have my pool money after this!!) 

 

[Perspective]

I would gladly pay more in price, for a larger lot. No reasonable explanation has been provided as to why the BP mello roos must be double comparable new developments, and include a 2% annual increase!

 

[Newbie13]

Is the MR in BP the same as in PP or is it double that of PP as well?  I mean usually MR's goes towards developing infrastructure, schools and the such correct? So in the GP neighborhoods aren't residents funding those tranditional uses as well as "The Great Park"? I'm not saying that I like paying more in property taxes but if my money is actually going towards some actual development, I'm ok with that.  I'm not a FCB or a USCB (does that exsist?) so I actually would rather pay more in MR than price in the house because that just means I'm paying more interest to the bank. 

 

[lnc]

I would gladly pay more in price, for a larger lot. No reasonable explanation has been provided as to why the BP mello roos must be double comparable new developments, and include a 2% annual increase!

Isn't portion of MR from Great Park developments are for the funding of the actual Great Park?

If it's true than I must thank all the PP and BP resident for their contribution to the Great Park.  

 

[Newbie13]

I would gladly pay more in price, for a larger lot. No reasonable explanation has been provided as to why the BP mello roos must be double comparable new developments, and include a 2% annual increase!

Isn't portion of MR from Great Park developments are for the funding of the actual Great Park?

If it's true than I must thank all the PP and BP resident for their contribution to the Great Park.

better you and the general community benefit that the 10 C-levels of my bank whose island vacation homes I will never set foot on.

 

[Perspective]

Is the MR in BP the same as in PP or is it double that of PP as well?  I mean usually MR's goes towards developing infrastructure, schools and the such correct? So in the GP neighborhoods aren't residents funding those tranditional uses as well as "The Great Park"? I'm not saying that I like paying more in property taxes but if my money is actually going towards some actual development, I'm ok with that.  I'm not a FCB or a USCB (does that exsist?) so I actually would rather pay more in MR than price in the house because that just means I'm paying more interest to the bank.

Yes, PP and BP homeowers pay double mello roos. Dollars are fungible. It doesn't matter if your dollars are going to the bank, developer, or the city. There is a price you're paying in BP, that is a pretty big premium. There's a premium price tag and twice the property tax in BP. The question for buyers is, are BP homes worth this significant premium? So far, the answer is a resounding no, but things can change quickly...

 

[Perspective]

I would gladly pay more in price, for a larger lot. No reasonable explanation has been provided as to why the BP mello roos must be double comparable new developments, and include a 2% annual increase!

Isn't portion of MR from Great Park developments are for the funding of the actual Great Park?

If it's true than I must thank all the PP and BP resident for their contribution to the Great Park.

better you and the general community benefit that the 10 C-levels of my bank whose island vacation homes I will never set foot on.

PP and BP homeowners will benefit from the adjacent development. The question for prospective Juniper buyers is, "Will I benefit commensurately with the $4K+ mello roos (growing 2% annually) I'm additionally paying?" I don't know how you can answer that question affirmatively.

The $1M+ BP homes are going to attract families that value a decent backyard, and really value a nice big backyard. I value this, so I get it. It's worth a huge premium for me.

 

[aquabliss]

So now that all our property tax bills are coming in and I'm comparing with my coworkers, I don't really feel as bad about the PP MR as I did before.  Most of them who own in Stonegate, Laguna Altura, Woodbury East are paying between $5k-$7k per payment.  But honestly all their yards are 10 feet deep and they have homes surrounding them from the rear. 

Over the weekend, eating dinner with my family on the patio of my back yard in complete privacy and having ample space made the extra ~$200/mo over what they are paying feel worth it.  To each his own I guess.

 

[bones]

Yes, PP and BP homeowers pay double mello roos. Dollars are fungible. It doesn't matter if your dollars are going to the bank, developer, or the city. There is a price you're paying in BP, that is a pretty big premium. There's a premium price tag and twice the property tax in BP. The question for buyers is, are BP homes worth this significant premium? So far, the answer is a resounding no, but things can change quickly...

Double to who?  PP MR is 25%-35% higher than comparable properties at SG and PS.

Edit:  the gap probably is a big more at the high end 4000sf+ homes, but for stuff <3500 sf which is the majority of homes in PP, PS and SG, the percentages above should hold and even narrows at the smaller square footages.

 

[Perspective]

My comment should have focused on Beacon Park with its ~1.8% effective rate relative to Stonegate's and Orchard Hills' ~1.4% effective rate on comparably sized homes. However, if Pavilion Park's mello roos is subject to increasing 2% annually, that effective rate can compound very quickly, just as Beacon Park's effective rate will only increase relative to comparable neighborhoods' rates.

 

[bones]

My comment should have focused on Beacon Park with its ~1.8% effective rate relative to Stonegate's and Orchard Hills' ~1.4% effective rate on comparably sized homes. However, if Pavilion Park's mello roos is subject to increasing 2% annually, that effective rate can compound very quickly, just as Beacon Park's effective rate will only increase relative to comparable neighborhoods' rates.

I understand your point and there's no disputing the fact that the MR is high in general in Irvine.  And even higher in PP and highest in BP.  But I just wanted to clarify the "double" comment that you like to throw around.  It may be true for BP, but definitely not true for PP at a lot of square footage brackets.  If you take a 3000 sf property in PS (Quinterra), the MR is $5,536.  For the same square footage in SG (Arcadia), it's approximately $4,374.  For a 3,000sf property in PP, the MR is $7,072.  Even with the 2% increase, it would take many years for it to "double" that of SG and even longer to "double" that of PS.  The only thing I"m not clear on is some of these SG/PS bonds may expire "soon". 

 

[LongIrvine]

Could be wrong, but pretty sure PP and BP at certain price points have larger and some cases much lot sizes for equivalent usable sq ft than TIC. 

 

[Perspective]

Could be wrong, but pretty sure PP and BP at certain price points have larger and some cases much lot sizes for equivalent usable sq ft than TIC.

Yes, the question is whether the price and double mello Roos increasing 2% annually is worth the larger lot.

 

[eyephone]

Could be wrong, but pretty sure PP and BP at certain price points have larger and some cases much lot sizes for equivalent usable sq ft than TIC.

Yes, the question is whether the price and double mello Roos increasing 2% annually is worth the larger lot.

So are you planning to move to BP and sell your OH home once it's built?

 

[Perspective]

Could be wrong, but pretty sure PP and BP at certain price points have larger and some cases much lot sizes for equivalent usable sq ft than TIC.

Yes, the question is whether the price and double mello Roos increasing 2% annually is worth the larger lot.

So are you planning to move to BP and sell your OH home once it's built?

I'd consider it because we value a large backyard. We waited six months to get a decent yard at Strada, while base pricing kept increasing slightly every phase. However, we just finished the upgrade stages and spent nearly 10% of our purchase price on builder upgrades. So, we're not flipping this house for a profit any time soon.

I really like Juniper's location within BP, floorpans, and lot sizes. However, to offset the mello roos difference, base prices would need to be significantly lower. A further adjustment to Juniper pricing is necessary, considering the area isn't nearly is purdy as Orchard Hills.

 

[aquabliss]

I think a large yard isn't that important until you have it, then you don't want to go back to looking at a wall.  I was used to no yard / small yard until I had a 35ft deep yard.  Now I can't imagine anything less.

Also keep in mind that in  the kingdom of zero lot lines, land is King!

 

[Newbie13]

Broken record, but this is insane. Most Beacon Park homes are over-priced and the mello roos is double other new Irvine neighborhoods. They're already offering $20K in incentives. Will Juniper's next move be $50K? How does this end?

They're offering 30K incentives now on paper.  So 50k may actually be considered in my opinion.

for those interested...straight from juniper sales rep "A $30,000 incentive package is the most the builder can do.  The VP of sales is firm on this because these prices will be the lowest prices they will have at Juniper.  Lot sizes will go up and they have a waiting list for most of them already.  The price concessions and extra incentives will very likely not be avialable in future phases."

 

[OC troll]

Broken record, but this is insane. Most Beacon Park homes are over-priced and the mello roos is double other new Irvine neighborhoods. They're already offering $20K in incentives. Will Juniper's next move be $50K? How does this end?

They're offering 30K incentives now on paper.  So 50k may actually be considered in my opinion.

for those interested...straight from juniper sales rep "A $30,000 incentive package is the most the builder can do.  The VP of sales is firm on this because these prices will be the lowest prices they will have at Juniper.  Lot sizes will go up and they have a waiting list for most of them already.  The price concessions and extra incentives will very likely not be avialable in future phases."

Super!

 

[AW]

We'll see if it holds true in couple more months if there are no buyers