ICE or EV?

Which car(s) will you be buying next?

  • ICE ICE Baby (morekaos dinosaur option)

    Votes: 10 27.8%

  • EV forEVa (unicorns for all)

    Votes: 21 58.3%

  • PHEV (I still have range anxiety)

    Votes: 3 8.3%

  • Hybrid (can't plug in yet)

    Votes: 5 13.9%

  • Alternative fuel (Hydrogen, vegetable oil, etc)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • Total voters
    36
Never said they wouldn’t, but it’s funny that now the words used to describe that market or words like “survive”. I have always said if you want to own an EV go for it, just don’t make the rest of us pay for it. 🤷🏽‍♂️😂😂😂🦄🌈
 
Yes you did... you said "doomed". That's why I used the word "survive" because you keep implying they will die.

In general, everyone knows EV is a growth market... except for you.
 
morekaos said:
…again, you go from one owner to two..technically, that’s an increase but really who cares?...mass adoption is faltering and in the end will not meet any of the overly optimistic expectations. Traditional ICE manufacturers who ran into the market without thinking it through are re-evaluating and pulling back, to the detriment of their shareholders. Sole EV Producers have no other offerings so are pinned into “full speed ahead” and are failing at an alarming rate. Only the government sponsored companies are not publicly faltering (like China) but most privately funded ones are dying. The revolution you believe in is dying a slow and proper death that a free market executes on fools. That Is not to say some will not survive…never said they won’t, but the market will cull out the weaklings and it will not be a “transition” that our government wastefully blew our money on. I don’t care if you like or own an EV…just don’t do it on my dime. What makes me mad is those morons wasted all that money chasing unicorns and rainbows, created inflation and deficits and guys like you cheered it on….
Click to expand...
Really?…said this just last month and said the same throughout this thread…
 
well, yes, the vast majority of those EV companies that are not run and funded by the Chinese government are “doomed“😂😂😂
 
irvinehomeowner said:
See... you're the one who keep bringing stock price into the convo and then when we show you how well an EV stock is doing you change the narrative.

So just like Tesla before, your opinion on Rivian has solidified their success.

Click to expand...
No matter the color of the lipstick on the pig…this is the ultimate executioner…it’s a losing metric that they used to use to describe .com companies. Revenue growth was emphasized over profit growth (or in this case lower losses)…That was snake oil in 1998 and still is now…😂😂😂🦄🌈

Despite the growth, Rivian’s pace slowed in Q4 as expected. Rivian’s CFO, Claire Mcdonough, said the company expected “a more significant gap between production and deliveries in Q4.”

The slowdown was due to Amazon limiting its new vehicle intake during the holiday season. Meanwhile, registration data shows Rivian was the fifth best-selling EV brand in the US last year, with 4% of the market.

After introducing new lower-priced R1S and R1T options (now starting at $71,700), analysts are worried about Rivian’s ability to generate a profit

The EV maker reported a net loss of $1.3 billion in the third quarter, with around a $30,500 loss per vehicle.

https://electrek.co/2024/02/21/rivians-gross-margins-slip-q4-2023-but-more-to-it/
 
To put this into perspective…if you went long this entire portfolio Sept 1, 2023 it would be a total disaster!!! If you were short…you would be a guru hero! 😂😂😂😂🦄🌈
EV scorecard: September 1, 2023

Tesla IHO wins $245.01-$200.93
Rivian IHO yes, morekaos no $23.31-11.00
Lucid IHO neutral, morekaos no $6.36-3.17
Chinese EVs (BYD,Nio,etc) IHO yes, morekaos no
BYD $64.03-51.18 NIO $11.00-5.76
VinFast IHO no, morekaos no $29.50-5.61
Fisker IHO doubtful, moreaos ? $5.96-0.65
Big 3 IHO yes, morekaos doomed
GM $33.54-40.14 F $12.14-12.03
STL $18.23-26.25
Big 3 Asian (Honda, Toyota, Hyundai/Kia) IHO yes, morekaos no
HMC $32.33-35.23 TM $172.51-237.27
HUN $85-$57.81
Euro IHO yes, morekaos no
VOLVO $20.00-25.98 VOLK $125.30 - $124.22
 
sgip said:
Ouch...

jalopnik.com

Porsche Taycan Turbos Have Lost Up To $100,000 Value In 4 Years

This high-performance, German EV has taken a big drop in value.
jalopnik.com jalopnik.com
Click to expand...

That first year model the Taycan came out had a lot of problems compared to the years after, the new 2025 Taycan update doesn't help used pricing either with its better range/power. I think those paying 175-200k+ for cars are OK, they are the ones with the deepest pockets and disposable income. The Taycan turbo or turbo s would not be my first choice at that price point.
 
used EV prices have dropped so precipitously that the lease market is getting cremated. With resale prices so low it can’t possibly support the new purchase market and the Jenga blocks collapse….doomed!!😂😂😂🦄🌈💩

Things Have Gotten So Bad for EV Makers That They're Having to Compensate Angry Leasing Companies​

These consequences are being felt most by leasing companies in Europe, such as Ayvens (which has already received checks from manufacturers to offset slumping prices) and Arval, where regulations regarding fleet emissions are much more stringent.

For instance, in the UK, zero-emissions vehicles must make up 22 percent of all cars sold this year, with that number rising to 28 percent next year, and Volkswagen is nowhere near next year's new permitted level of emissions as mandated by the European Union.


 
really the only car company anyone should own!!!👍🏽😂😂😂💰
 

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The ‘greenest’ car in America might surprise you​

But a new report from the American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy suggests that the “greenest” car in America may not be fully electric. The nonprofit group, which has rated the pollution from vehicles for decades, says the winning car this year is the Toyota Prius Prime SE, a plug-in hybrid that can go 44 miles on electricity before switching to hybrid.

The analysis shows that simply running on electricity is not enough to guarantee that a car is “green” — its weight, battery size and overall efficiency matter, too. While a gigantic electric truck weighing thousands of pounds might be better than a gas truck of the same size, both will be outmatched by a smaller, efficient gas vehicle.

The Prius Prime outranked its competitors, Huether said, because of its small battery — which lowers the emissions and pollution associated with manufacturing — and its high efficiency. The vehicle’s battery is less than one-tenth the size of the battery on the monstrous Hummer EV. That means fewer emissions in making the battery, and fewer rare minerals to mine and extract.

 
Aston Martin and Mercedes face reality….what Toyota has long known is just now being admitted by all the foolish pile oners….an expensive venture with disastrous results…😂😂😂🦄🌈💩

Aston Martin delays first electric car as losses narrow​

Feb 28 (Reuters) - Aston Martin (AML.L), opens new tab is delaying the launch of its first electric car because of a lack of consumer demand, it said on Wednesday, as record prices for its luxury

Mercedes-Benz earlier this month delayed its electrification goal by five years and assured investors it would keep sprucing up its combustion engine models.

 
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The green new deal transition to EV‘s is just a job creating juggernaut…just like they told us it would be🤦🏽‍♂️😂😂😂👎🏽🦄🌈💩

Southern California bus factory shuts, 425 jobs lost, latest victim of green-vehicle slump​

Early euphoria of various vehicles powered by alternative fuels is over. ​

www.ocregister.com

Southern California bus factory shuts, 425 jobs lost, latest victim of green-vehicle slump

The ENC bus business and its plant in Jurupa Valley will close by year’s end.
www.ocregister.com www.ocregister.com
 
$67k list on a brand new hydrogen powered Toyota Mirai. (most remaining units are $73k)

Minus $40k dealer incentives.

Minus $15k free fuel. UCI and JWA both have hydrogen refueling stations.

Net $12k - $18k cost of ownership (Not including taxes or fees...)

Deal, or No Deal?

insideevs.com

2023 Toyota Mirai Gets $40,000 Cash Incentive, Is Now Dirt Cheap

Toyota is offering steep discounts on the Mirai after Shell closed its hydrogen refueling stations in California.
insideevs.com insideevs.com
 
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sgip said:
$67k list on a brand new hydrogen powered Toyota Mirai.

Minus $40k dealer incentives.

Minus $15k free fuel.

Net $12k. (Not including taxes or fees...)

Deal, or No Deal?

insideevs.com

2023 Toyota Mirai Gets $40,000 Cash Incentive, Is Now Dirt Cheap

Toyota is offering steep discounts on the Mirai after Shell closed its hydrogen refueling stations in California.
insideevs.com insideevs.com
Click to expand...
Dang that is cheap. Fueling might be inconvenient, but if I were in the market for an economy sedan that I would exclusively drive locally, this would be near the top of the short list. But alas, I don't have a need for that at this time.

https://h2fcp.org/stationmap
 
Even if I were in need of a new car I wouldn't do it. Nearest 2 filling stations to me are about the same distance, in opposition directions, and in areas I rarely go to. Too much of a PITA just to fill up. Between the wife and I, about 65% of our miles are done in an EV. Having a charger cord in the driveway where we can plug in whenever we need to is just too convenient to backtrack on at this point. I haven't crunched the #s, but as little as I drive, I probably also wouldn't even use up the free hydrogen.

Shell pulled all their LH2 stations from California last year. Who's next?
 
I love having an EV as a daily driver (tesla Model 3), but it's not as fun as my previous BMWs.

I went to look at getting a weekend Porsche to scratch that itch, insane how much money they are for 8 year old cars with 40k miles. Might have to wait a few more years of RSUs...
 
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