ICE or EV?

[zubs]

Here is my experience after owning Tesla Y for 2 years.
~My monthly gas bill for my old ICE car was around $400/month so about $4,800 annually
~I had to pay $1,000 more annually in electricity bill due to Tesla charging @Home (I have solar panels)
~Insurance on old ICE car is $800/year
~Insurance on Tesla Y is $1,700/year

4,800 - $1,000 + $800 - $1,700 = $2,900 savings per year on Tesla Y.

I also have to change the tires on Tesla more but it's negligible if you accelerate slowly. I'd give it another -$300 per year estimated.
Savings around $2600/year.

There's also no gas stations or oil change downtime so that may be a +$200/year....
Back to $2,800 savings you go.

I plan to drive it 10 years so we shall see if I can get it there.
I'll update in 2032.

 

[morekaos]

….and initial purchase price or financing costs and interest interest rates over an ICE needs to be added.

 

[OCtoSV]

not really - in fact my M3P was much cheaper than the 911 I previously wanted before succumbing to the lure of quiet performance

 

[morekaos]

Again, that’s great for you. But we’re talking about mass acceptance and adoption, we’re not talking about Porsches, we’re talking about Fords and Chevys and Toyotas.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I already posted about the $25k Tesla Model 2 (that morekaos will think is $50k) and other mfrs are coming out with lower cost EVs too. Even Rivian is putting their focus on a lower priced R2S.

Drill Unicorn Drill!

 

[morekaos]

Ford hits reverse!…

Ford's new $41,000 Explorer SUV is gas-only - as the seventh generation of America's best-selling SUV ditches the hybrid variant and steers well clear of a fully electric version​

• Ford has gotten rid of the hybrid variant in its seventh generation Explorer line
• The new model will only be sold with 2.3 liter or 3.0 liter gas engines

https://www.autonews.com/cars-concepts/2025-ford-explorer-gets-bigger-screens-loses-hybrid-variant

 

[irvinehomeowner]

For morekaos:

Majority of dealers complain US is bringing them too fast into the EV future

A strong majority of car dealers complain the US government’s strategy is bringing them too fast into the electric vehicle...

electrek.co

I've been thinking about their reluctance and it makes sense:

1. EV direct sales hurts their business
2. Less maintenance, less recurring revenue
3. Margins might be smaller on EVs than ICE
4. Usually more sophisticated buyer so they can't dupe... and if it's a less sophisticated one, it's a support headache

 

[morekaos]

…or the simple answer, they don’t make sense and forcing them is a giant waste of time and money…what I have been saying all along. Let the market bring them naturally, if that is what the public wants.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

How did Tesla become one of the top selling car makers if all their cars cost over $100k and they didn't have Fed subsidies for years?

You are contradicting yourself.

 

[morekaos]

Toyota sold 10 million cars last year. That is significant. Ford sold 2 million, GM sold 2.6 million each sold more vehicles

 

[morekaos]

Who cares how many cars they sold

 

[morekaos]

This reminds me of 2007-2008 when the rally cry on Bond desks was “dump it on Düsseldorf!!” when an issuer was junk. These days it’s “dump it on China!!”, they’re dumb enough to ride it into the ground!

Volvo shares jump 26% on higher sales, plans to stop Polestar funding​

• The group announced that it may hand stewardship of ailing luxury car brand Polestar over to majority Volvo shareholder Geely Holding.
• Volvo Cars CEO Jim Rowan told CNBC’s Silvia Amaro on Thursday that this was a “natural evolution” in the relationship between the two carmakers.

The group announced it may hand stewardship of ailing luxury car brand Polestar over to majority Volvo shareholder, China’s Geely Holding, which has a 78.65% stake in the company, according to LSEG data.

Volvo shares jump 26% on higher sales, plans to stop Polestar funding

Volvo Cars shares surged more than 26% on Thursday after the Swedish automaker announced that it will stop funding subsidiary Polestar Automotive.

www.cnbc.com

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Toyota sold 10 million cars last year. That is significant. Ford sold 2 million, GM sold 2.6 million each sold more vehicles

This is significant too:

 

[morekaos]

and that probably will be the peak by the companies owned admission…

· Vehicle volume growth in 2024 “may be notably lower” than last year’s growth rate, the company warned.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

U.S. Non-Tesla BEV Sales Surged In 2023

All-electric car sales in the U.S. increased significantly in 2023, reaching its new record levels. In today's post we will focus on the non-Tesla BEV sales.

insideevs.com

This article was interesting because of the morekaos' misinformation machine. It shows sales data for non-Tesla EVs and despite slowing demand, Ford and GM still did pretty well in 2023, in fact, they were at the top EV sales chart:



Percentage of their EV sales vs the brand's total sales confirms what I posted earlier, the luxury brands (the more expensive ones that morekaos says are too high priced to sell) are doing the best:



And... remember that most of the non-US brands don't qualify for Fed credits so it's surprising they are able to move a larger percentage of EVs than the domestic brands.

So it's not just subsidies that sell EVs... people actually want them.

 

[morekaos]

keep putting lipstick on that pig, someone’s gonna kiss it. 2024 sales are going to be a disaster. You can mark my words on that.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Love it when the data makes morekaos cry.

 

[morekaos]

Reality never hurts me…idealists are the Karens

 

[morekaos]

This is going as planned…right?

Ford’s Model e electric vehicle unit posted a $1.57 billion loss from October through December, more than doubling a loss of $631 million during the fourth quarter of 2022.

 

[morekaos]

Edsel Ford augers the company into the ground in the vein persuit of unicorns and rainbow glory. Shareholders are not amused….

Ford is reassessing its EV plans, including vertical battery integration​

• Ford is rethinking its electric vehicle strategies, CEO Jim Farley said Tuesday.
• The Detroit automaker previously confirmed plans to delay or cut $12 billion in spending on all-electric vehicles.
• Farley reiterated the company still believes EVs will grow, but noted widespread adoption for mass-market consumers won’t happen until the costs are more in line with traditional vehicles.

Ford is reassessing its EV plans, including vertical battery integration

Ford is rethinking its electric vehicle strategies, including "reassessing" the need for vertical integration of batteries, CEO Jim Farley said Tuesday.

www.cnbc.com