Government Shutdown

Mety said:
fortune11 said:
@Mety ? Not exactly.  Jesus crowd = significant portion of white evangelicals living in red states = trumps shoot someone on fifth avenue and not lose base

Even within non college whites , non evangelical supporters are actually LOT lower in number than southern evangelicals. This is actually an accurate and surprising find , once you dig deeper into who the non college white voter base is


So you were referring to people more like fake hypocrites. It's got nothing to do with Jesus then. I also do not agree people using His name as a political weapon while their lives do not reflect Christ at all. But then again who am I to judge, right? Only God will know fully what's in one's mind.


And he(Jesus) said to them, ?You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God. - Luke 16.15

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.  Matthew 6:5.

I completely disagree re judging other Christians...I think Christians are perfectly ripe for criticism considering they signed up for the rules.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
Mety said:
fortune11 said:
Irvinecommuter said:
fortune11 said:
The biggest  political mistake republicans on TI can make is anchoring themselves to nov 2016 outcomes and living in that fantasy world .

Not dissimilar to the mistake dems made in 2008 of assuming a permanent majority based on demographic trends and the- then obama coalition.

Dems are the master of destroying their own fate.  Hopefully they have learned their lesson.

If one studied history, one would have seen that Trump was the most "logical" result of Obama being elected.  This country elected a bunch of racists and let Congress be dominated by former-confederate supporters after the Civil War and Lincoln.  Plessy v Ferguson was decided in 1896...30 years after the end of the CW and death of Lincoln.

Yes

But what trump has done is nothing short of political malpractice 101 .  He was never going to lose racists or the Jesus crowd anyways  . But he has done everything in his power to thin out support from every other constituency.


Are you saying Jesus crowd is racist?

If Jesus crowd in your definition is someone who goes to church, acts nice, smiles like a good person, says he/she is a Christian, but doesn't really love God, doesn't repent, a hypocrite, then you are pretty right.

If Jesus crowd in your definition is a genuine Christian who believes in Jesus, who has forgiven sinners by dying on the cross but rose from dead and is alive, who also clearly showed no racism when He walked on earth and loved everyone who admits one's sinful life, then you are far from knowing the truth. Please read the Word of God yourself instead of making a decision from seeing bunch of hypocrites. 


"You will seek me(God) and find me, when you seek me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13

I can't speak for Fortune but I believe he is referring to the evangelicals who support Trump, who claim that everything is okay because Trump is anti-abortion and protects "religious [they mean Christian] freedom" while ignoring everything else.  The mental and spiritual gymnastics I have see proposed by evangelical "leaders" like Falwell or Dobson is mindblowing and would lead to Jesus flipping some tables (IMO).

Evangelical leadership have turned into the Pharisees of our days.

There are massive problems with what hypocrite Christian leaders have made impression of in this country.

I just wanted to mention, read the Word of God and seek for yourself who Jesus really is instead of depending on fake religious leaders and their twisted gospel messages.





 
Irvinecommuter said:
Mety said:
fortune11 said:
@Mety ? Not exactly.  Jesus crowd = significant portion of white evangelicals living in red states = trumps shoot someone on fifth avenue and not lose base

Even within non college whites , non evangelical supporters are actually LOT lower in number than southern evangelicals. This is actually an accurate and surprising find , once you dig deeper into who the non college white voter base is


So you were referring to people more like fake hypocrites. It's got nothing to do with Jesus then. I also do not agree people using His name as a political weapon while their lives do not reflect Christ at all. But then again who am I to judge, right? Only God will know fully what's in one's mind.


And he(Jesus) said to them, ?You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God. - Luke 16.15

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.  Matthew 6:5.

I completely disagree re judging other Christians...I think Christians are perfectly ripe for criticism considering they signed up for the rules.

Yes, Christians are supposed to judge or rebuke Christians. You are very right. When hypocritical motive is found, they should be rebuked, but the way of how to do is a whole another discussion.

One big question to remember is is it out of love or is it out of just for the sport of pointing fingers?





 
Irvinecommuter said:
Kings said:
the sooner the left realizes their inherent bias and how fake news is poisoning their mind, the better!

LOL...until Fox News stops actually lying and making up things, the crown remains with it.

Oh...I am still waiting for a Trumpster to write something similar about Trump's failed promises and complete lack of competency.

Fox News is a f____ disgrace to our society nothing less ...

ISIS killed 4 American servicemen the very day mike pence was chest thumping about trump having defeated ISIS

They didn?t even cover it until later in  the evening when it was a tiny byline like 2 pages down on their homepage .

This is why trump will always have that 35 percent unlike Nixon who sank to the low 20s . Even if trump pulls out the rug from under his own supporters, they will still end up blaming the ?liberal elites? for it

 
Boy has this thread spun off into the infield but I?ll add that from now on instead of reporting facts the media will now have to preamble all their stories with ?...if true, then...? what a joke!
 
well , who are you going to believe ? Conservative spindoctors on Fox or your own lying eyes :)

Here is another data point ... doesn?t need much explaining

Covington Catholic High students in blackface at past basketball game. And this video was on schools OWN YouTube account before it was taken down yesterday !

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-sports-covington-nathan-phillips-nick-sandmann-20190121-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

 
fortune11 said:
well , who are you going to believe ? Conservative spindoctors on Fox or your own lying eyes :)

Here is another data point ... doesn?t need much explaining

Covington Catholic High students in blackface at past basketball game. And this video was on schools OWN YouTube account before it was taken down yesterday !

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-sports-covington-nathan-phillips-nick-sandmann-20190121-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

There is no doubt in my mind that the kids were a bunch self-righteous SOB that felt it necessary to defend the white race but really it's the adults that failed.  The chaperone(s) were utter failure...those racist Israelite guys...and even the Native American who had the best intention but really approached it wrong IMO.  It was an opportunity to have a conversation but instead it became a giant ego fest. 

I don't think anyone was in the right...the reactions are just a reflection of what the country is like. 
 
fortune11 said:
Irvinecommuter said:
Kings said:
the sooner the left realizes their inherent bias and how fake news is poisoning their mind, the better!

LOL...until Fox News stops actually lying and making up things, the crown remains with it.

Oh...I am still waiting for a Trumpster to write something similar about Trump's failed promises and complete lack of competency.

Fox News is a f____ disgrace to our society nothing less ...

ISIS killed 4 American servicemen the very day mike pence was chest thumping about trump having defeated ISIS

They didn?t even cover it until later in  the evening when it was a tiny byline like 2 pages down on their homepage .

This is why trump will always have that 35 percent unlike Nixon who sank to the low 20s . Even if trump pulls out the rug from under his own supporters, they will still end up blaming the ?liberal elites? for it

And Pence's use of MLK to support Trump's wall and agenda is fairly distasteful. 
 
Mety said:
Yes, Christians are supposed to judge or rebuke Christians. You are very right. When hypocritical motive is found, they should be rebuked, but the way of how to do is a whole another discussion.

One big question to remember is is it out of love or is it out of just for the sport of pointing fingers?

Of course...motivation and attitude are of key important but even Jesus got a little physical when dealing with those temple moneychangers and Pharisees.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
fortune11 said:
Irvinecommuter said:
Kings said:
the sooner the left realizes their inherent bias and how fake news is poisoning their mind, the better!

LOL...until Fox News stops actually lying and making up things, the crown remains with it.

Oh...I am still waiting for a Trumpster to write something similar about Trump's failed promises and complete lack of competency.

Fox News is a f____ disgrace to our society nothing less ...

ISIS killed 4 American servicemen the very day mike pence was chest thumping about trump having defeated ISIS

They didn?t even cover it until later in  the evening when it was a tiny byline like 2 pages down on their homepage .

This is why trump will always have that 35 percent unlike Nixon who sank to the low 20s . Even if trump pulls out the rug from under his own supporters, they will still end up blaming the ?liberal elites? for it

And Pence's use of MLK to support Trump's wall and agenda is fairly distasteful.

Pence had the gall to say Trump is acting ?exactly like? Martin Luther King in demanding a border wall and quoted the ?I Have A Dream? speech.  WTF 
 
fortune11 said:
well , who are you going to believe ? Conservative spindoctors on Fox or your own lying eyes :)

Here is another data point ... doesn?t need much explaining

Covington Catholic High students in blackface at past basketball game. And this video was on schools OWN YouTube account before it was taken down yesterday !

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-sports-covington-nathan-phillips-nick-sandmann-20190121-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

So lets step on another landmine and blow the other foot off too, huh?  No need for explanation or context just react with outrage to a posted picture from 2011?


MAGA-hatted teens, a Native American and the peril of instant judgment

Even all the footage that has emerged leaves considerable room for disagreement. It?s not hard to believe that Phillips and Sandmann each acted in a way he thought was responsible and constructive. It was obviously a messy, confusing situation.

But a couple of clear lessons can be drawn. One is that it?s dangerous to reach instant judgments based on images that lack context. Sometimes, video footage is invaluable in determining the truth. At other times, it makes something complicated look simple.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-video-teen-native-american-racist-covington-20190121-story.html

The Trib, (no right wing publication) and I know Gateway is right but the points are all valid...Look at all things with context and try not to react to a posting that has been up for 7 years and no one saw anything wrong with it till now.

Number one: The article claims that the photo is from 2015, but it's apparently from 2011. So despite the article's contention that the photo "won?t help Kentucky student Nick Sandmann?s case," it has nothing to do with him or any of the other kids who were in D.C. for the March for Life. They would have been in elementary school at the time.

Number two: It's called a "blackout" game, you dummies. This has been going on at school games since at least 2008, according to this New York Times report:

No team has pulled off the blackout with as much aplomb as baseball?s White Sox last Tuesday night ? the same night that Middle Tennessee State?s football team celebrated an appearance on ESPN2 with a blackout of its own. Fans flipping channels might have thought the color had gone out on their flat screens.

With a day?s notice, a crowd of 40,354 arrived in black at U.S. Cellular Field for a tie-breaker game with the Twins. The team handed out 40,000 black towels.

It cast a fresh, eerie and somewhat intimidating backdrop to Chicago?s 1-0 victory.
?When you had all the fans in black, waving their towels, it almost looked like a stadium full of bats,? said Brooks Boyer, the team?s vice president and chief marketing officer.

The fans loved it, and hope that a tradition has been born.

It was a fun new tradition until the Trumpy Covington Catholic High School kids did it, apparently. Then it became a deplorable minstrel show proving once and for all that the high school is full of irredeemable racists.

Number Three: Adam Fatkin, a former Covington Catholic High School student who went on to play basketball for Rockhurst University, said the black guy in the picture wasn't being racially taunted. In fact, he was a good friend.

"This picture is being completely taken out of context. The player in this photo is my former teammate and like a brother to me. He lived with me for ~3 years. He is not being harassed because the color of his skin.No, they were there in order to cheer against the opposing team, us. If I remember correctly it was a black out game, as a result they were decked out in black. I?m simply saying that you?re taking this picture out of context. You went back and found this picture from 2011 and using it in order to fit a certain narrative.When he used it as his profile picture and posted it on instagram ~8 years ago no one had any problem then. There wasn?t a problem because everyone looked at it for what it is, a student section yelling at an opposing player, that?s it"

https://pjmedia.com/trending/fake-news-media-doubles-down-with-another-covington-catholic-maga-teen-smear/


https://youtu.be/8EwcYwax4Oo

https://youtu.be/8EwcYwax4Oo
 
morekaos said:
DACA has always been on the table, he has always been willing to use that chip, the Dems will reject it. He?ll call them on it, this works to his advantage.

Supreme Court again takes no action on DACA, leaving policy in effect for now
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/22/politics/daca-supreme-court/index.html

Trump offered Daca as part of the Government Shutdown negotiations that is being litigated in the courts. Also, the Supreme Court took no action on DACA.

I can?t keep track Nancy Pelosi 10 to Trump 0
 
Pelosi 11 Trump 0

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump on Tuesday attempted to move ahead with planning for a State of the Union speech to the U.S. Congress on Jan. 29 despite pressure from Democrats to delay it due to the partial government shutdown.

An administration official said the White House sought to have pre-speech preparations completed on Capitol Hill.

The request seemed likely to set up another clash between Trump and Pelosi, days after Trump abruptly refused to let her use a U.S. military plane to go on an overseas trip hours before she was to depart.

Aides to Pelosi did not respond to requests for comment on whether Trump's invitation to speak would stand.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-pl...border-wall-undercut-163015378--business.html
 
Irvinecommuter said:
Pelosi 11 Trump 0

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump on Tuesday attempted to move ahead with planning for a State of the Union speech to the U.S. Congress on Jan. 29 despite pressure from Democrats to delay it due to the partial government shutdown.

An administration official said the White House sought to have pre-speech preparations completed on Capitol Hill.

The request seemed likely to set up another clash between Trump and Pelosi, days after Trump abruptly refused to let her use a U.S. military plane to go on an overseas trip hours before she was to depart.

Aides to Pelosi did not respond to requests for comment on whether Trump's invitation to speak would stand.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-pl...border-wall-undercut-163015378--business.html

....right. nice fantasy world you live in!

a (democratic) house divided shall fall

Hoyer says 'sure' when asked if Trump can deliver SOTU, despite Pelosi's objections

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told Fox News' "Your World with Neil Cavuto" on Tuesday that he would have no objections to President Trump delivering a State of the Union address in the House of Representatives on Jan. 29, despite House speaker Nancy Pelosi's repeated threats that the traditional speech be delayed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hoyer-says-sure-when-asked-if-trump-can-deliver-sotu-despite-pelosis-objections
 
The Republicans had the control of Congress and the President. But why couldn?t they pass funding for the wall?
Don?t blame the Democrats.

Kings said:
Irvinecommuter said:
Pelosi 11 Trump 0

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump on Tuesday attempted to move ahead with planning for a State of the Union speech to the U.S. Congress on Jan. 29 despite pressure from Democrats to delay it due to the partial government shutdown.

An administration official said the White House sought to have pre-speech preparations completed on Capitol Hill.

The request seemed likely to set up another clash between Trump and Pelosi, days after Trump abruptly refused to let her use a U.S. military plane to go on an overseas trip hours before she was to depart.

Aides to Pelosi did not respond to requests for comment on whether Trump's invitation to speak would stand.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-pl...border-wall-undercut-163015378--business.html

....right. nice fantasy world you live in!

a (democratic) house divided shall fall

Hoyer says 'sure' when asked if Trump can deliver SOTU, despite Pelosi's objections

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told Fox News' "Your World with Neil Cavuto" on Tuesday that he would have no objections to President Trump delivering a State of the Union address in the House of Representatives on Jan. 29, despite House speaker Nancy Pelosi's repeated threats that the traditional speech be delayed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hoyer-says-sure-when-asked-if-trump-can-deliver-sotu-despite-pelosis-objections
 
Kings said:
....right. nice fantasy world you live in!

a (democratic) house divided shall fall

Hoyer says 'sure' when asked if Trump can deliver SOTU, despite Pelosi's objections

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told Fox News' "Your World with Neil Cavuto" on Tuesday that he would have no objections to President Trump delivering a State of the Union address in the House of Representatives on Jan. 29, despite House speaker Nancy Pelosi's repeated threats that the traditional speech be delayed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hoyer-says-sure-when-asked-if-trump-can-deliver-sotu-despite-pelosis-objections

LOL...Hoyer is playing good cop.  He also said in that same interview

Asked by host Neil Cavuto whether Trump can legally request to deliver the State of the Union in the House over Pelosi's objection, Hoyer indicated that he could not. Although Pelosi has not formally disinvited Trump from giving the speech, she has suggested a speech would not be a good idea and should be delivered only in writing.

"Within his right -- now that's a technical term, and the answer to that is no," Hoyer responded. "The president comes here at the invitation of the Congress, and particularly the House, to address the Congress of the United States."
 
One big issue in our current world...the inability to distinguish between could and should.  Yes, he had the right to stand there...question is whether what he did was good.  It was an opportunity to learn and talk but instead both sides felt that they were right and an unnecessary standoff resulted.

Sandmann, who is seen in the video smiling just inches away from the Native American elder?s face, told NBC?s Savannah Guthrie in an interview that aired Wednesday on the ?Today? show that he ?had every right? to stand before Phillips.

?My position is that I was not disrespectful to Mr. Phillips. I respect him, I would like to talk to him,? he said. ?In hindsight, I wish we could have walked away and avoided the whole thing.?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/teen-maga-hat-apos-had-042442204.html

Phillips: There was a disturbance there on the Lincoln Monument grounds. We were finishing up with Indigenous Peoples March and rally and there were some folks there that were expressing their (First Amendment) rights there, freedom of speech. ... Then there was this young group of young students that came there and were offended by their speech, and it escalated into an ugly situation that I found myself in the middle of. Yeah, I found myself in the middle of it, sort of woke up to it.

CNN: You just sort of decided to try and stop this or at least have an impact on it, calm the waters. Is that right?

Phillips: Yes, that's the impression that everybody has, and I guess that's what I was doing. I didn't realize that's what I was doing. When I started taking those steps and using the drum, it was just spur of the moment. I don't like to say it that way, but it was just, "What do you do? What do you do now?" Here's a moment where something that's really ugly in our society, in America, something that's just come to a boiling point, as they say. Does that make sense?

CNN: Were you trying to calm the situation down basically when you saw kind of things seemed to spiral out of control?

Phillips: I think so. I think that was the push, that we need to use the drum, use our prayer and bring a balance, bring a calming to the situation. I didn't assume that I had any kind of power to do that, but at the same time, I didn't feel that I could just stand there anymore and not do something. It looked like these young men were going to attack these guys. They were going to hurt them. They were going to hurt them because they didn't like the color of their skin. They didn't like their religious views. They were just here in front of the Lincoln -- Lincoln is not my hero, but at the same time, there was this understanding that he brought the (Emancipation Proclamation) or freed the slaves, and here are American youth who are ready to, look like, lynch these guys. To be honest, they looked like they were going to lynch them. They were in this mob mentality. Where were their parents? Because they were obvious a student group. Where were their--
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/nathan-phillips-maga-teens-interview/index.html
 
...and jumping in with the mob without any explanation or context is a morons errand...twitter is a total sewer.

'Go screaming, hats first, into the woodchipper': Liberal celebs including Kathy Griffin, Disney producer Jack Morrissey and Ron Perlman rush to delete furious tweets about Covington teens after new video suggests confrontation wasn't one sided

Prominent liberals in Hollywood are angry about Catholic high school students from Kentucky who were filmed confronting Native American elder
Viral images showed teens who appeared to be mocking Nathan Phillips near Lincoln Memorial on Saturday
But new video that has emerged from the incident shows a more nuanced timeline of events
Phillips, the Native American elder, intervened in a dispute between the high school teens and a fringe religious sect
Nonetheless, liberal celebrities including Debra Messing, Kathy Griffin, Rosie O'Donnell, Ed Asner, and others expressed outraged at the teens
Griffin even called for the students to be 'named and shamed'
On Tuesday, Griffin deleted a tweet which showed Covington basketball players 'make a Nazi salute', although the photo shows them displaying three fingers
Actor Ron Perlman of Sons of Anarchy also deleted a tweet about the Covington teens, even though he still referred to one as a 'little bitch'
Film producer Jack Morrissey deleted a tweet in which 'MAGA kids' are sent 'screaming, hats first, into the woodchipper'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6621415/Kathy-Griffin-Debra-Messing-John-Cusack-celebs-vent-rage-Covington-teens.html
 
Far from being ?calm and restrained? in response to the taunts of the five Black Hebrew Israelites, the students are shown responding with loud chants, gestures, and shouts of their own, as though facing off against a rival team at a sporting event, escalating the confrontation.

When the American Indian activist Nathan Phillips walks between the groups with his drum, many of the students respond by performing the ?tomahawk chop? gesture, laughing, or doing a mocking imitation of his singing. Not all of the children are being disrespectful; others are confused about how to react, and say so out loud.

As the Covington students ascend to right-wing martyrdom, some perspective is in order.

much of the media has overcorrected by assuming the exact opposite of the original story was true. The overcorrections are a symptom of the mainstream media?s ongoing preoccupation with winning the affection of the president?s most enthusiastic supporters?an impossible task, because those supporters believe what the president wants them to believe. If you write something they don?t like, you?re fake news. If you correct something you got wrong, you?re also fake news. The only way not to be fake news is to say what they want you to say, the way they want you to say it.  When journalism becomes about popularity, getting the facts right becomes secondary.
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/580987/?__twitter_impression=true


 
CBS poll has terrible numbers for Trump:

? 71% say the wall is not worth shutdown
? 60% say shutdown is serious problem 
? Say Pelosi better negotiator than Trump
? Trump approval rating at new low 36%
 
Back
Top