EV/Plug-In/Hydrogen Fuel Cell - Cars

Rice Vino said:
EV/Plug-in looking much better than TDI these days.

... too soon?
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Did you hear the announcement regarding TDI vehicles? The CEO just stepped down today. Looks like a disaster.
 
The real disaster hits when the 15% of vehicles sold in California, have to have the fix put in to meet  emissions before CARB and the DMV will allow renewal of the license tabs.

A whole lot of people are going to get to experience first hand why VW had "road mode" and "dyno mode".
 
eyephone said:
Rice Vino said:
EV/Plug-in looking much better than TDI these days.

... too soon?
Click to expand...

Did you hear the announcement regarding TDI vehicles? The CEO just stepped down today. Looks like a disaster.
Click to expand...

All new and used VW and Audi with 2.0 TDI engine are slap with stop sale at the dealership.  All 2016's TDI are hold up at port and no dealer will take in any 2.0 TDI trad-ins.  It's going to be a disaster alright.

Maybe I can find a TDI VW at a deep discount from private seller,  I don't mind if it puff a little extra black smoke. >:D


 
One of my neighbors works for Toyota. They drove home in a Mirai Fuel Cell vehicle (1 of 200 to be sold/leased in the US this year) $499 per month, free Hydrogen for 3 years. Carpool eligible. It's got a pretty bare bones interior - peeking through the windows....  - but a sharp looking car. Much more attractive than the BMW Electric abomination in design I see driving around.

My .02c
 
Soylent Green Is People said:
One of my neighbors works for Toyota. They drove home in a Mirai Fuel Cell vehicle (1 of 200 to be sold/leased in the US this year) $499 per month, free Hydrogen for 3 years. Carpool eligible. It's got a pretty bare bones interior - peeking through the windows....  - but a sharp looking car. Much more attractive than the BMW Electric abomination in design I see driving around.

My .02c
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Want one....
 
Compressed-Village said:
Soylent Green Is People said:
One of my neighbors works for Toyota. They drove home in a Mirai Fuel Cell vehicle (1 of 200 to be sold/leased in the US this year) $499 per month, free Hydrogen for 3 years. Carpool eligible. It's got a pretty bare bones interior - peeking through the windows....  - but a sharp looking car. Much more attractive than the BMW Electric abomination in design I see driving around.

My .02c
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Want one....
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Has the availability of hydrogen filling stations improved? Last time I checked there were only a handful in California (one being in Irvine). This is one area where Tesla has other alternative energy competitors beat.
 
Too many plug-in hybrids, pure electric cars and not enough (free) charging station, we have a problem.

In California, Electric Cars Outpace Plugs, and Sparks Fly

Unlike gas stations, charging stations are not yet in great supply, and that has led to sharp-elbowed competition. Electric-vehicle owners are unplugging one another?s cars, trading insults, and creating black markets and side deals to trade spots in corporate parking lots.

Tensions over getting a spot are ?growing and growing,? said Maureen Blanc, the director of Charge Across Town, a San Francisco nonprofit that works to spread the adoption of electric vehicles. She owns an electric BMW and recently had a testy run-in over a charging station with a Tesla driver.
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lnc said:
Too many plug-in hybrids, pure electric cars and not enough (free) charging station, we have a problem.

In California, Electric Cars Outpace Plugs, and Sparks Fly

Unlike gas stations, charging stations are not yet in great supply, and that has led to sharp-elbowed competition. Electric-vehicle owners are unplugging one another?s cars, trading insults, and creating black markets and side deals to trade spots in corporate parking lots.

Tensions over getting a spot are ?growing and growing,? said Maureen Blanc, the director of Charge Across Town, a San Francisco nonprofit that works to spread the adoption of electric vehicles. She owns an electric BMW and recently had a testy run-in over a charging station with a Tesla driver.
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Businesses need to start charging money for EVs plugging into the grid. People make wasteful choices when things are free.
 
Musings of the reality of electric car ownership.

Bought a used Nissan Leaf for the wife less than 2 weeks ago, and it has been a fairly big disappointment in terms of both cost and range.  Before buying, I had done just a bit of sniffing around online, saw the published range of 84 miles, and found reports of hardcore enthusiasts ("hypermilers") getting 100 miles per charge.  My wife has a short commute, and used car prices are in the gutter,  thus voila!--Leaf in the driveway.

I've been collecting data, and it looks like we get about 3 miles per kw-h, though Nissan marketing seems to think we should be getting 4.7, and the car itself is lying and saying we're averaging 4.2 (maybe Nissan hired some VW software guys?).  So with my electric rates, I figure I'll be paying about 10 cents a mile for electricity.  Much better than the 30 cents my big sedan costs, but not as good as I expected with the touted "115mpge" on the Nissan banners...which beg for clarification:  The 115mpge claim is PURELY a statement on energy efficiency and NOT related to energy cost.  It ignores the fact that gasoline costs 1/4th as much as my electricity for the same amount of energy.  (#thewholetruth)

Here's a big surprise, if you actually read the owner's manual:  For greatest battery longevity, you want to keep the battery between 20% and 80% charged.  Poof!  There goes 40% of your range.  Add in a little age-related battery degradation (even though the car says "full bars" capacity), and losses with using the AC, and we "should" have a useful range of at least 40 miles, depending on the kind of driving, which is truly laughable. 

The reality is we're getting about 32 miles between charges.

So that kind of sucks, and the real problem is with how amazingly weight-inefficient batteries are (or how amazingly energy-dense gasoline is).  The Tesla P85D is named for it's battery capacity, at 85kw-h.  A gallon of gasoline has 33kw-h of energy...yes, that's right:  A 1200 lbs Tesla battery holds less energy than 3 gallons of gasoline.

The saving grace of course is how efficient electric cars are.  Gas engines waste over 3/4 of the energy to heat.  But still....we're left with a Nissan Leaf with over 600lbs of battery and only 32 miles of range.  That's why, I think, depreciation is so big on this car; a lot of owners finding out how inconvenient/impossible it is having one of these as a daily driver, like a guy I know at work,  who now leaves his Leaf at home and rides the train in.  Good for us I guess, as we get to buy a good car on the cheap and still only need to charge it once a week.

On the "pros" list, the Leaf is quite impressive with the technology.  Nav system, aux port, bluetooth, Smartphone controls, online interface, backup camera, LED lights (f'ing bright!).  And the big plus:  Much less maintenance.  No more oil changes, plugs, wires, transmissions, fuel systems, leaky gaskets etc.  With 4 other cars on the road it'll be nice to have a set of wheels that won't need much lovin'.  This will take the sting out of that eventual $5k battery pack replacement. 

I still think this was a good investment for us, given that we had to buy a car.  It's just not as good a buy as I thought it would be.  Think twice before cutting the pipeline.
 
daedalus said:
Think twice before cutting the pipeline.
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Also an electric car just can't beat the sound of a thirsty fossil fuel sucking VTEC V6 roar behind your ears. :)


 
V6? 
V8 sounds better!

Interesting on the mileage thing.  There's no way I can use something that short a distance in a day.  Really need improvements to pack the cells with less weight.
 
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