EV/Plug-In/Hydrogen Fuel Cell - Cars

The main reason why EV is doing well vs other green technologies because of the ease of use.

1. Natural gas a person needs to hire a professional to install the special device and hook it up to the natural gas line. Filling up the tank, when your out and about - good luck! It's so hard to find a natural gas fill up station. But Nat gas is good if you own a bus/truck for commercial fleets, as they own a Nat gas pump.

2. Hydrogen Fuel Cell good idea, but it's expensive to fuel up. Estimate cost is $50 to fill up the tank for 300 miles. Also, the infrastructure of HFC stations is not there yet and maybe not be there.

3. Electric charge - almost anyone can charge their vehicle. (Exceptions: renters, but I read an article where some guy runs an electric cord out of his window to charge his vehicle, this has to be on the first floor) It does not cost a lot for a business to add a level 2 charge for business or home.

Update: Cost of charging stations.
Hydrogen: I just read there are 11 Hydrogen stations in United States. (10 in California and 1 in South Carolina) it costs around $1 million to build

Electric Charge: Level 2 costs - $5k to $10k, DC fast charge stations $30k-$100k, Tesla 120-kW unit from $35k, $150k multi-unit stations.

For home use level 2 chargers range from $179 - $1000+. (I read good reviews for the level 2 charger called Juicebox retails $179)  City Permit cost $50 - $100. Electrician labor $150 plus
 
People wait in long lines to get slightly discounted Costco gas.

Meanwhile, most Nissan dealers give away Level 3 quick charging for free!
 
Rice Vino said:
People wait in long lines to get slightly discounted Costco gas.

Meanwhile, most Nissan dealers give away Level 3 quick charging for free!
Click to expand...

Those people are idiots.
 
Rice Vino said:
People wait in long lines to get slightly discounted Costco gas.

Meanwhile, most Nissan dealers give away Level 3 quick charging for free!
Click to expand...
I always get a kick out of seeing those long ass lines to get gas at costco while I pump gas at a regular station with no line with my 5% off gas purchases CC and come out ahead. 
 
I'm one of those idiots, though I do it more for the convenience than the savings.  Our weekly routine involves me dropping off the wife in front of Costco before I make for the pumps.  We always go on a weekday night (not Friday) and usually a bit late because we flex our time and take off from work other days.  The lines usually aren't bad at this time, though I don't really care, since it only takes one of us to shop.  We carpool everywhere anyway (preferential parking at work, though our "commute" is only a mile). After getting gas I park the car near a cart return and weave my way through the store, taking my time through the tools and automotive aisles, looking for "97" tags, and seeing if there's anything new and cool.  I usually catch up to my wife somewhere between leafy greens and fresh fruit.  We adjust our pace depending on how much time we have before our Chipotle order is ready, stopping at the books and DVDs if we have time, then check out, pick up our meal, and head home for dinner in and a movie.

Maybe everyone in the gas pump line has a similar routine?  My wife and I are just thankful we've never had to drive to work on a freeway or in traffic in this state.  My office mate has an electric vehicle.  We drive a full size sedan and still pay less in gasoline than he pays in electricity home-charging his car with off peak rates...we can almost make it a month between fill ups.
 
daedalus said:
I'm one of those idiots, though I do it more for the convenience than the savings.  Our weekly routine involves me dropping off the wife in front of Costco before I make for the pumps.  We always go on a weekday night (not Friday) and usually a bit late because we flex our time and take off from work other days.  The lines usually aren't bad at this time, though I don't really care, since it only takes one of us to shop.  We carpool everywhere anyway (preferential parking at work, though our "commute" is only a mile). After getting gas I park the car near a cart return and weave my way through the store, taking my time through the tools and automotive aisles, looking for "97" tags, and seeing if there's anything new and cool.  I usually catch up to my wife somewhere between leafy greens and fresh fruit.  We adjust our pace depending on how much time we have before our Chipotle order is ready, stopping at the books and DVDs if we have time, then check out, pick up our meal, and head home for dinner in and a movie.

Maybe everyone in the gas pump line has a similar routine?  My wife and I are just thankful we've never had to drive to work on a freeway or in traffic in this state.  My office mate has an electric vehicle.  We drive a full size sedan and still pay less in gasoline than he pays in electricity home-charging his car with off peak rates...we can almost make it a month between fill ups.
Click to expand...

well with your system i can see why you gas up there, although i still wouldnt do it.  lines are normally like 5-6 cars deep. at 3 minutes per car (including paying/getting back in car etc), if not a little more, that is like 15-18 minutes of waiting. $2 in savings or 15-18 minutes of waiting? seems like a no brainer.
 
eyephone said:
Electric Charge: Level 2 costs - $5k to $10k, DC fast charge stations $30k-$100k, Tesla 120-kW unit from $35k, $150k multi-unit stations.

For home use level 2 chargers range from $179 - $1000+. (I read good reviews for the level 2 charger called Juicebox retails $179)  City Permit cost $50 - $100. Electrician labor $150 plus
Click to expand...

Tesla includes a 10kW charge cable with switchable plugs to charge anywhere from 120v 15a up to 240v 50a outlet (10kW).  Extra cables are $650, you can optionally purchase a 20kW charging station for $1200 + the option on the car for twin chargers (10kW + 10kW). 
 
shokunin said:
eyephone said:
Electric Charge: Level 2 costs - $5k to $10k, DC fast charge stations $30k-$100k, Tesla 120-kW unit from $35k, $150k multi-unit stations.

For home use level 2 chargers range from $179 - $1000+. (I read good reviews for the level 2 charger called Juicebox retails $179)  City Permit cost $50 - $100. Electrician labor $150 plus
Click to expand...

Tesla includes a 10kW charge cable with switchable plugs to charge anywhere from 120v 15a up to 240v 50a outlet (10kW).  Extra cables are $650, you can optionally purchase a 20kW charging station for $1200 + the option on the car for twin chargers (10kW + 10kW).
Click to expand...

@shokunin - do you drive a Tesla?
 
daedalus said:
I'm one of those idiots, though I do it more for the convenience than the savings.  Our weekly routine involves me dropping off the wife in front of Costco before I make for the pumps.  We always go on a weekday night (not Friday) and usually a bit late because we flex our time and take off from work other days.  The lines usually aren't bad at this time, though I don't really care, since it only takes one of us to shop.  We carpool everywhere anyway (preferential parking at work, though our "commute" is only a mile). After getting gas I park the car near a cart return and weave my way through the store, taking my time through the tools and automotive aisles, looking for "97" tags, and seeing if there's anything new and cool.  I usually catch up to my wife somewhere between leafy greens and fresh fruit.  We adjust our pace depending on how much time we have before our Chipotle order is ready, stopping at the books and DVDs if we have time, then check out, pick up our meal, and head home for dinner in and a movie.

Maybe everyone in the gas pump line has a similar routine?  My wife and I are just thankful we've never had to drive to work on a freeway or in traffic in this state.  My office mate has an electric vehicle.  We drive a full size sedan and still pay less in gasoline than he pays in electricity home-charging his car with off peak rates...we can almost make it a month between fill ups.
Click to expand...

Home charging super off peak is like 10 cents per kWh. EVs get 3-4 miles per kWh. So sub 4 cents per mile, conservatively. How is it that it costs you less than that in your gasoline car? Priuses are around 9 cents per mile, and you say you pay less in your full size sedan ??
 
Rice Vino said:
Home charging super off peak is like 10 cents per kWh. EVs get 3-4 miles per kWh. So sub 4 cents per mile, conservatively. How is it that it costs you less than that in your gasoline car? Priuses are around 9 cents per mile, and you say you pay less in your full size sedan ??
Click to expand...
I said I pay less in gasoline for my car than my coworker pays in electricity for his car.  I didn't say I pay less per mile than he does.  He enjoys a much lower cost/mile than I do, and he gets to enjoy it for over 2 hours per day! 

qwerty said:
well with your system i can see why you gas up there, although i still wouldnt do it.  lines are normally like 5-6 cars deep. at 3 minutes per car (including paying/getting back in car etc), if not a little more, that is like 15-18 minutes of waiting. $2 in savings or 15-18 minutes of waiting? seems like a no brainer.
Click to expand...
Luckily my Costco has 2 pumps per line, just like most--if not all--other Costcos, so the cars move roughly 2 at a time, on average.  I guess it might be a 6 minute wait, maybe 10 at most, though I'm not sure how making 1 more stop and going to a different station wouldn't cost me even more time.  It's not like I would leave the warehouse any sooner if there were no line at all.  Again, I'm not doing it to save $2/month or whatever it is, believe me.  Sitting in the car checking my email is no worse than walking behind a shopping cart.  My wife has that part covered till I get there. 

I did not mean to derail the alternate fuel vehicle thread.  I just didn't think it was fair that me buying gas at Costco made me an idiot.  Some of us Costco gas-line-waiters, beyond having basic math and reading comprehension skills, are actually quite intelligent.  For my wife and me, keeping our weekly commute time to about 50 minutes total and minimizing transportation expenses was our no-brainer.  YMMV
 
daedalus said:
I did not mean to derail the alternate fuel vehicle thread.  I just didn't think it was fair that me buying gas at Costco made me an idiot.  Some of us Costco gas-line-waiters, beyond having basic math and reading comprehension skills, are actually quite intelligent.  For my wife and me, keeping our weekly commute time to about 50 minutes total and minimizing transportation expenses was our no-brainer.  YMMV
Click to expand...

Well your situation is rather unique. Most people don't work one mile from their house. For most people, typically there is a gas station, or likely several, on their way home so there is not any incremental time on finding a gas station on their way home. While you may be neither an idiot or cheap, my guess is that most of those people at the Costco gas line are.

The Costco gas line supports my belief that 95% of the human population are idiots, perhaps it's 99%
 
I've been eyeing the Rav4 EV. Toyota is discounting them ridiculously. The lease is about the same as the leaf but with real world range of 120+ miles. Dump in 2-3 years.
 
Re: Costco gas lines

Just don't go during prime time. I usually hit the Spectrum one after 7pm and there is usually an open pump, no lines... even on weekends (except Sundays they close at 7pm).

What I need is a *bigger* alt fuel car... all these EV/hybrids are so non IHO sized.
 
eyephone said:
The race to 200 miles EV. GM will have one by 2016. If this comes true, is Tesla over valued with a range of 265 (according to EPA)

Just have to wait and see. Right now it's a concept car.
http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post--gm-isnt-alone-in-race-to-200-mile-electric-car
Click to expand...

This isn't a concept car, it's just speculation about their strategy with a lot of filler phrases.

"What I mean here is..." and "the point of all this is..." and "the bottom line is..."

Along with:

If I were in charge of an automaker, I would seek to conceal my intentions, and induce my competitors to look in all the wrong places.  Let them waste R&D dollars on less promising projects, while I go ahead and finalize what I am really believing will sell the most.
Click to expand...

Sorry to vomit all over this article, but it is simply full of nothing.

Tesla will have unveil their 200 mile range Model E next year at a sub $40k price point. Nissan's next Leaf will be ~$10k less and have 10% less range.

These two were out front innovating and are selling current/last gen tech to fund the new tech, which in Nissan's case, appears to be a battery breakthrough of sorts.

Meanwhile, GM, Ford and Toyota are perfecting the gas hybrid, which is akin to 56k modem technology - the best of its kind, but obsolete soon.
 
Rice Vino said:
eyephone said:
The race to 200 miles EV. GM will have one by 2016. If this comes true, is Tesla over valued with a range of 265 (according to EPA)

Just have to wait and see. Right now it's a concept car.
http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post--gm-isnt-alone-in-race-to-200-mile-electric-car
Click to expand...

This isn't a concept car, it's just speculation about their strategy with a lot of filler phrases.

"What I mean here is..." and "the point of all this is..." and "the bottom line is..."

Along with:

If I were in charge of an automaker, I would seek to conceal my intentions, and induce my competitors to look in all the wrong places.  Let them waste R&D dollars on less promising projects, while I go ahead and finalize what I am really believing will sell the most.
Click to expand...

Sorry to vomit all over this article, but it is simply full of nothing.

Tesla will have unveil their 200 mile range Model E next year at a sub $40k price point. Nissan's next Leaf will be ~$10k less and have 10% less range.

These two were out front innovating and are selling current/last gen tech to fund the new tech, which in Nissan's case, appears to be a battery breakthrough of sorts.

Meanwhile, GM, Ford and Toyota are perfecting the gas hybrid, which is akin to 56k modem technology - the best of its kind, but obsolete soon.
Click to expand...

The only car company that has proven the 200-300 miles plus electric battery is TESLA.

I consider the Leaf and GM 200 plus electric all HYPE. Currently, Leaf owners are complaining about the drastic decrease in range battery life. So I'm kind of skeptical about their dream of 200 mile range.

 
Tesla (and Volt, btw) has temperature monitoring and management while the car is parked whereas Leaf does not. So it's really in extreme situations that this matters. It turns out LA was Nissan's primary testing bogey so more of an issue for more severe climates.
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10338

Looks like the Leaf battery will be at ~70% over a 6.5 year period for LA basin.
 
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