anteaterMD
Member
Born and raised in OC at the upper beach cities.
Glad to explore south OC though. Been sleeping on it for a while.
The Meadows, Lake Forest by Toll Brothers
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NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Glad to explore south OC though. Been sleeping on it for a while.
On another note, just began the process of moving in. Toll did a great job with the home design(s); there are lots of windows to bring in natural light. Of course YMMV depending on which lot. Happy with ours though.
Realistically, I'd say Fall 2023 or Winter 2024. Would be nice to have it sooner though.
From my research, there is clearly room in various Lake Forest area elementary schools but the rub is, it's not in the neighborhood.
https://www.greatschools.org/california/lake-forest/3994-Lake-Forest-Elementary-School/
Glad to explore south OC though. Been sleeping on it for a while.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Great Mongolian BBQ next door. 
CalBears96
Well-known member
Someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Toll Brothers gave the city the land, but not funding the costs.
CalBears96
Well-known member
Is it good? I saw it when we went to visit the site, but haven't had the chance to try it.Great Mongolian BBQ next door.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
It's decent... lots of different sauces (including teriyaki which I've never seen at a MBBQ)... the pocket sesame bread is harder than the ones at the Lake Forest Genghis Khan (RIP) but the price is reasonable for AYCE.
anteaterMD
Member
Thanks for the rec. I'll try it sometimeGreat Mongolian BBQ next door.
Kangen.Irvine
Active member
For those residents with children…meeting is March 9.
sleepy5136
Well-known member
what's the meeting for? the decision has been made. not like homeowners can do anything right?
anteaterMD
Member
Guess we’ll find out soon enough.
On another note, just began the process of moving in. Toll did a great job with the home design(s); there are lots of windows to bring in natural light. Of course YMMV depending on which lot. Happy with ours though.
ThirtySomethingWEquity
Active member
Enjoy! Is the pool open yet? We love spending the summers at the community pool in baker ranch, TB does a great job with amenities.
anteaterMD
Member
Not yet. Last time I checked I was told that they're aiming for Summer 2023.
Realistically, I'd say Fall 2023 or Winter 2024. Would be nice to have it sooner though.
someguy
Well-known member
Who wants to provide a public comment to the school board? You need to arrive before 6:00pm to reserve a spot to comment. Public comments are limited to 3 minutes. 25631 Peter A. Hartman Way, Mission Viejo, CA 92691
I even drafted up a speech!
Hi Members of the Board and fellow citizens,
I'm someguy and I’m here to discuss the dealings between Toll Brothers, a nationwide home builder, and SVUSD.
In November 2019 Toll Brothers filed plans with the City of Lake Forest that included a school site at the south east corner of Bake Parkway and Rancho Parkway next to their community called “The Meadows”.
2 years later in the builder began soliciting sales for their homes in the community. The builder’s agents informed potential buyers of the proposed school site, which likely attracted buyers as word spread. Deep in their 300 page contract the builder disclosed that they may develop the site into high density housing if a school is not built.
Today it's finally becoming clear that the district is not going to build a school at the proposed site. What did the district discover about that site after 4 years? According to your meeting minutes, the district noted that building a school would cost a lot of money. The district notes that there is room for students at Lake Forest Elementary and Serrano Summit Intermediate schools. The district notes that the California Department of Education expressed “very significant concerns about the site being used as a school site”. Armed with this information uncovered over the course of 4 years, the district is rejecting the land offer, which will allow the site to be developed into more homes, potentially high-density homes. And the kicker? The district will be collecting the legally required development fees plus an extra 25%.
Congratulations for enabling the home builder’s marketing ploy these past few years in exchange for an extra 25% in fees to develop the site into more homes. The losers are buyers who naively thought the district would attempt to add to their education infrastructure, reduce classroom crowding, and place elementary schools in close proximity to the thousands of families at Baker Ranch, Serrano Summit, and The Meadows.
But my real question is who let this ruse go on for so long? 4 years to figure out schools are expensive to build? 4 years to figure out the CDE had “very significant” concerns about the location? 4 Years to figure out you have no problem stuffing more children into your nearby overcrowded schools?
I’m not a detective or a lawyer, but I know enough to know when something sinks. And this reeks of corporate/government sleight of hand. You must have, and should have, known that this school site would not proceed well before today. It doesn't take 4 years to realize schools cost a lot of money, that there are other schools nearby, and that the CDE has very significant concerns about a school site. You appear to have intentionally slowed or obscured the inevitable failure of this school site from the public, which enabled the builder to continue their marketing ploy, in exchange for extra development fees.
Whatever the explanation, people deserve to know which of you is incompetent, in the pocket of Toll Brothers, or both. I suggest you are each investigated. You are clearly of service to something other than setting good education policy.
I even drafted up a speech!
Hi Members of the Board and fellow citizens,
I'm someguy and I’m here to discuss the dealings between Toll Brothers, a nationwide home builder, and SVUSD.
In November 2019 Toll Brothers filed plans with the City of Lake Forest that included a school site at the south east corner of Bake Parkway and Rancho Parkway next to their community called “The Meadows”.
2 years later in the builder began soliciting sales for their homes in the community. The builder’s agents informed potential buyers of the proposed school site, which likely attracted buyers as word spread. Deep in their 300 page contract the builder disclosed that they may develop the site into high density housing if a school is not built.
Today it's finally becoming clear that the district is not going to build a school at the proposed site. What did the district discover about that site after 4 years? According to your meeting minutes, the district noted that building a school would cost a lot of money. The district notes that there is room for students at Lake Forest Elementary and Serrano Summit Intermediate schools. The district notes that the California Department of Education expressed “very significant concerns about the site being used as a school site”. Armed with this information uncovered over the course of 4 years, the district is rejecting the land offer, which will allow the site to be developed into more homes, potentially high-density homes. And the kicker? The district will be collecting the legally required development fees plus an extra 25%.
Congratulations for enabling the home builder’s marketing ploy these past few years in exchange for an extra 25% in fees to develop the site into more homes. The losers are buyers who naively thought the district would attempt to add to their education infrastructure, reduce classroom crowding, and place elementary schools in close proximity to the thousands of families at Baker Ranch, Serrano Summit, and The Meadows.
But my real question is who let this ruse go on for so long? 4 years to figure out schools are expensive to build? 4 years to figure out the CDE had “very significant” concerns about the location? 4 Years to figure out you have no problem stuffing more children into your nearby overcrowded schools?
I’m not a detective or a lawyer, but I know enough to know when something sinks. And this reeks of corporate/government sleight of hand. You must have, and should have, known that this school site would not proceed well before today. It doesn't take 4 years to realize schools cost a lot of money, that there are other schools nearby, and that the CDE has very significant concerns about a school site. You appear to have intentionally slowed or obscured the inevitable failure of this school site from the public, which enabled the builder to continue their marketing ploy, in exchange for extra development fees.
Whatever the explanation, people deserve to know which of you is incompetent, in the pocket of Toll Brothers, or both. I suggest you are each investigated. You are clearly of service to something other than setting good education policy.
According to a study they did in March 2022, there are 304 available seats at Rancho Canada. The school is at 65% capacity.
From my research, there is clearly room in various Lake Forest area elementary schools but the rub is, it's not in the neighborhood.
someguy
Well-known member
That may be true, but the board minutes specifically mention Lake Forest Elementary to house students from the TB project. That gem of a school apparently averages 122% of the state average student:teacher ratio (27 at the school, 22 state average)
https://www.greatschools.org/california/lake-forest/3994-Lake-Forest-Elementary-School/
someguy
Well-known member
As a side note, but related, between The Meadows, Baker Ranch, and Serrano Summit, there will be 1,658 new homes added to this area. Napkin math (average property tax basis of $1.25M, 1.1%) shows that's $23M of additional revenue every year for the county to spend on local services. Not a single new school built to serve this area. WTF Lake Forest? WTF SVUSD?
131 seats at lake forest elementary. Rancho Canada and LF elem are the same distance from the new TB development.
I don’t disagree with your WTF-ness. It’s something I’ve talked about on here for awhile. But the district doesn’t want to build new schools while it’s shuttering schools, and residents don’t want to fund any education measures.
I don’t disagree with your WTF-ness. It’s something I’ve talked about on here for awhile. But the district doesn’t want to build new schools while it’s shuttering schools, and residents don’t want to fund any education measures.
someguy
Well-known member
I agree it's not a good look to be shuttering schools while building new schools, but these people are charged with setting good education policy. If a school can be relocated to better serve a majority of attendees & families, that sounds like good education policy. Bad optics though, I get it.
As far as funding, $23M +/- per year in property taxes (those are generally tagged for local fire, police, and education) over the last few years and indefinitely into the future with 2% increases means no additional education measures are needed. Plus the CDE was going to cover half of the construction costs.
A school at the Meadows seems doable and good for the nearby neighborhoods, but lacks the political will.
The more cynical perspective might be the plan was always to build houses there, but some clever strategy / briefcases of cash to the right people allowed TB to market land as a "proposed school site" to potential buyers for the last 18 months and flip the script after 2/3rds of the houses were sold or in escrow. Oh, and those beautiful central amenities buyers expected to share between roughly 500 households? Now they need to make room for all the households built on the school site.
As far as funding, $23M +/- per year in property taxes (those are generally tagged for local fire, police, and education) over the last few years and indefinitely into the future with 2% increases means no additional education measures are needed. Plus the CDE was going to cover half of the construction costs.
A school at the Meadows seems doable and good for the nearby neighborhoods, but lacks the political will.
The more cynical perspective might be the plan was always to build houses there, but some clever strategy / briefcases of cash to the right people allowed TB to market land as a "proposed school site" to potential buyers for the last 18 months and flip the script after 2/3rds of the houses were sold or in escrow. Oh, and those beautiful central amenities buyers expected to share between roughly 500 households? Now they need to make room for all the households built on the school site.
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Measure M (SVUSD) in 2020 asked for $495M. I think it broke down into $30m per year? That didn’t even factor in building a new school and was put on the ballot with BR at buildout (or near full buildout)? I get the frustration - hope these 500 homes move the needle. Not sure how you even rally support - half (more?) the development was sold to investors who DGAF.
Just making a guess based on my observations. But even if it was 100% owner occupied, you would still have a hard time rallying support. Most people are apathetic. To really care about this issue, you need people with young young kids bc it'll take years for an elem school to be built. You'll get some who don't want more housing but not enough to counter the rest of LF. You'll get some from BR to care but who's to say they'll even be zoned to this new school. No one in LF feels bad for the 500 households in some brand new $1M++ community with no new school when the rest of the districts' schools all need capital improvements. I have long given up on Lake Forest and the education there. Good luck!