Protest, Riot, Curfew

[Kenkoko]

white and hispanic people are killed by police too - white people even moreso.  when was the last time people rioted because either of those races were killed by police?

Change where you get your news. You'll see that plenty of people are out there protesting police brutality against all races not just blacks.

 

[Kenkoko]

Aside from all political opinions, if there isn't huge increase of C19 cases on these heavily protested areas coming days/weeks, then what was all these months of lockdown for?

Remember stuff like: without social distancing half of the population would be dead in two months? ...

You should consider making a change where you get your news from.

Talking to me or happiness?

Hey Mety, was talking to Happiness. No credible news source would claim "without social distancing half of the population would be dead in two months"

Trump's not 100% wrong when he said people watched fake news. Apparently Happiness did.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

An abstract on "fatal officer-involved shootings" doesn't directly correlate to police brutality.

So is it your opinion that this is not an issue?

present your data that says it is instead of just dismissing mine

Just for Kings, from the same exact site you pulled your "study" from:
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police. Risk of being killed by police peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for men and women and for all racial and ethnic groups. Black women and men and American Indian and Alaska Native women and men are significantly more likely than white women and men to be killed by police. Latino men are also more likely to be killed by police than are white men.

We use data on police-involved deaths to estimate how the risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States varies across social groups. We estimate the lifetime and age-specific risks of being killed by police by race and sex. We also provide estimates of the proportion of all deaths accounted for by police use of force. We find that African American men and women, American Indian/Alaska Native men and women, and Latino men face higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. We find that Latina women and Asian/Pacific Islander men and women face lower risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. Risk is highest for black men, who (at current levels of risk) face about a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police over the life course. The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women. Risk peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for all groups. For young men of color, police use of force is among the leading causes of death.

So which data is correct?

 

[Mety]

Aside from all political opinions, if there isn't huge increase of C19 cases on these heavily protested areas coming days/weeks, then what was all these months of lockdown for?

Remember stuff like: without social distancing half of the population would be dead in two months? ...

You should consider making a change where you get your news from.

Talking to me or happiness?

Hey Mety, was talking to Happiness. No credible news source would claim "without social distancing half of the population would be dead in two months"

Trump's not 100% wrong when he said people watched fake news. Apparently Happiness did.

Thank you for taking time to answer my little question. IHO straight up just ignored me. I'm kidding IHO ;D. I forgive you.

 

[Kings]

the point of my posts are for you to think critically about what people are actually rioting about.

if you think there is systemic racism and brutality in the police force, by all means take it up with your local police force and tell them to reform their policies.  maybe even encourage your children to join the force and be the change you want to see.

there are millions of police arrests every year. the media will magnify a minuscule percentage of those and create catalysts for the riots you see today.  remember, there are always three sides to each story - the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Kings]

An abstract on "fatal officer-involved shootings" doesn't directly correlate to police brutality.

So is it your opinion that this is not an issue?

present your data that says it is instead of just dismissing mine

Just for Kings, from the same exact site you pulled your "study" from:
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police. Risk of being killed by police peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for men and women and for all racial and ethnic groups. Black women and men and American Indian and Alaska Native women and men are significantly more likely than white women and men to be killed by police. Latino men are also more likely to be killed by police than are white men.

We use data on police-involved deaths to estimate how the risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States varies across social groups. We estimate the lifetime and age-specific risks of being killed by police by race and sex. We also provide estimates of the proportion of all deaths accounted for by police use of force. We find that African American men and women, American Indian/Alaska Native men and women, and Latino men face higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. We find that Latina women and Asian/Pacific Islander men and women face lower risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. Risk is highest for black men, who (at current levels of risk) face about a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police over the life course. The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women. Risk peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for all groups. For young men of color, police use of force is among the leading causes of death.

So which data is correct?

it's not a matter of which data is correct. you're conflating two issues: police brutality and racism in the police force.  please go read my original post and the study: Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

in case you forgot the significance of the study i linked, here it is again:

Significance
There is widespread concern about racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings and that these disparities reflect discrimination by White officers. Existing databases of fatal shootings lack information about officers, and past analytic approaches have made it difficult to assess the contributions of factors like crime. We create a comprehensive database of officers involved in fatal shootings during 2015 and predict victim race from civilian, officer, and county characteristics. We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

 

[Happiness]

White people are racists but after a century of protests, riots, dialogue, etc. white people are still racists so why keep fighting with the same ineffective tools? Any strategist knows that if you find yourself in front of an insurmountable obstacle, the best path to success is to find a work-around than to keep banging yourself against the obstacle.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

An abstract on "fatal officer-involved shootings" doesn't directly correlate to police brutality.

So is it your opinion that this is not an issue?

present your data that says it is instead of just dismissing mine

Just for Kings, from the same exact site you pulled your "study" from:
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police. Risk of being killed by police peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for men and women and for all racial and ethnic groups. Black women and men and American Indian and Alaska Native women and men are significantly more likely than white women and men to be killed by police. Latino men are also more likely to be killed by police than are white men.

We use data on police-involved deaths to estimate how the risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States varies across social groups. We estimate the lifetime and age-specific risks of being killed by police by race and sex. We also provide estimates of the proportion of all deaths accounted for by police use of force. We find that African American men and women, American Indian/Alaska Native men and women, and Latino men face higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. We find that Latina women and Asian/Pacific Islander men and women face lower risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. Risk is highest for black men, who (at current levels of risk) face about a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police over the life course. The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women. Risk peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for all groups. For young men of color, police use of force is among the leading causes of death.

So which data is correct?

it's not a matter of which data is correct. you're conflating two issues: police brutality and racism in the police force.  please go read my original post and the study: Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

in case you forgot the significance of the study i linked, here it is again:

Significance
There is widespread concern about racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings and that these disparities reflect discrimination by White officers. Existing databases of fatal shootings lack information about officers, and past analytic approaches have made it difficult to assess the contributions of factors like crime. We create a comprehensive database of officers involved in fatal shootings during 2015 and predict victim race from civilian, officer, and county characteristics. We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

And that's why I said you are correlating a study that does not apply to this issue. Did a police officer shoot Floyd?

Thank you for proving my point.

And you still haven't answered the question... do YOU think it's an issue? Your unwillingness to answer is revealing.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Thank you for taking time to answer my little question. IHO straight up just ignored me. I'm kidding IHO ;D. I forgive you.

Where did you ask me a question? I don't mean to be pulling a Kings on you.

 

[Mety]

Thank you for taking time to answer my little question. IHO straight up just ignored me. I'm kidding IHO ;D. I forgive you.

Where did you ask me a question? I don't mean to be pulling a Kings on you.

previous page, second post. it's ok you were busy arguing with more important matters.

 

[Kenkoko]

the point of my posts are for you to think critically about what people are actually rioting about.

You're using talking points like "maybe Floyd didn't die of asphyxiation" and "we've made progress since 1820". That's both disingenuous and out of touch. Are people going to be less outraged because police brutality only triggered Floyd's pre-existing condition, not directly killing him?
You think people would be less outraged because we no longer have slavery??

if you think there is systemic racism and brutality in the police force, by all means take it up with your local police force and tell them to reform their
policies.  maybe even encourage your children to join the force and be the change you want to see.

Of course there is systemic racism and brutality in the police force. Communities spend hundreds of millions of dollars on payouts for police brutality cases each year. $302 million per year in NY and $47 million per year in Chicago in payouts alone. Many TIers love to complain about wasted tax $. Imagine other uses for that money.
https://www.governing.com/topics/finance/gov-police-misconduct-growing-financial-issue.html

Between 2012 and 2014, the Los Angeles Police Department received more than 1,350 citizen complaints of racial profiling. The department didn?t uphold a single complaint. The feedback mechanism is broken. This is partly why people are outraged.

 

[Kings]

And that's why I said you are correlating a study that does not apply to this issue. Did a police officer shoot Floyd?

Thank you for proving my point.

And you still haven't answered the question... do YOU think it's an issue? Your unwillingness to answer is revealing.

one point at a time, my friend.

the study certainly applies.  as i said before, there is a strong belief that there is racism within the police community.  and for that reason, people believe black people are targeted more than any other race.

let's go back to my study and assume it is correct in that there is no racism in the police community.  why, then, is there more prevalence of brutality against black people? (this is where the study you presented comes in)  i don't have time to research that statistic, so please feel free to present information why black people are victims of brutality (by all police, not just white police)

of course police brutality is an issue.  it's just not the racist issue the rioters are making it out to be.  that's been my point all along.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Aside from all political opinions, if there isn't huge increase of C19 cases on these heavily protested areas coming days/weeks, then what was all these months of lockdown for?

If covid 19 is as dangerous and the authorities and experts say it is, there is no way the authorities would have not stopped the protests/riots immediately.

The fact that the authorities have only made half-hearted efforts to stop the riots tells you all you need to know the veracity of the authorities and experts statements about the covid 19 danger.

Remember stuff like: without social distancing half of the population would be dead in two months? If the authorities actually believed the stuff they were saying, would they hesitate to go full Tiananmen on the rioters in order to save the lives of hundreds of millions of Americans?

Wow... nice deflection.

So do you think Covid-19 isn't serious? Have you been social distancing yourself? Or have you been out these last 3 months without a mask or any precautions? Put your money where your keyboard is.

Asking me or Happiness?

Happiness as they were the last quoted.

But you can answer too.

 

[qwerty]

An abstract on "fatal officer-involved shootings" doesn't directly correlate to police brutality.

So is it your opinion that this is not an issue?

present your data that says it is instead of just dismissing mine

The criminal-justice system is racist.

In case there are still people out there who think otherwise, Here is a WAPO article with plenty of studies supporting it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nal-justice-system-is-racist-heres-the-proof/

It has more than 15 studies, including ones done by the department of justice.

the criminal justice system isn?t racist. It?s the people that run it.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

And that's why I said you are correlating a study that does not apply to this issue. Did a police officer shoot Floyd?

Thank you for proving my point.

And you still haven't answered the question... do YOU think it's an issue? Your unwillingness to answer is revealing.

one point at a time, my friend.

the study certainly applies.  as i said before, there is a strong belief that there is racism within the police community.  and for that reason, people believe black people are targeted more than any other race.

let's go back to my study and assume it is correct in that there is no racism in the police community.  why, then, is there more prevalence of brutality against black people? (this is where the study you presented comes in)  i don't have time to research that statistic, so please feel free to present information why black people are victims of brutality (by all police, not just white police)

of course police brutality is an issue.  it's just not the racist issue the rioters are making it out to be.  that's been my point all along.

There is still a difference between a situation that is an officer involved fatal shooting and a case of police brutality.

Insulting or using violence on someone when it is not required speaks to character of that person... shooting someone in a situation where a crime may possibly be committed speaks to the job of law enforcement. Sometimes they overlap, but the former happens more than the latter due to racism.

I think you answered my question and it is your opinion that police brutality is an issue but is not necessary race-based. The study I posted says otherwise but you are asking for more data. Read Kenkoko's post.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

So conversely, how Kings asked why some of us weren't concerned about Covid spread with all these protests (which I actually was)... why aren't the anti-lockdown "cheerleaders" complaining about the curfews?

Surely these forced closings of businesses and requiring people to stay home is bad for the economy and taking away freedoms.

 

[Mety]

So conversely, how Kings asked why some of us weren't concerned about Covid spread with all these protests (which I actually was)... why aren't the anti-lockdown "cheerleaders" complaining about the curfews?

Surely these forced closings of businesses and requiring people to stay home is bad for the economy and taking away freedoms.

I think the stay-home-order and a planned curfews are different.

The lockdown without knowing how long or any details on it is pretty frustrating for everyone and it's wholly based on an uncertain disease called C-19 in this case. This one is very uncertain for every aspect.

The curfew is usually for like 8pm-5am kind of a thing for a day or two. It's also clearly to protect human lives from being harmed of robbery and looting in this case. There is no uncertainty on this at all.

 

[momopi]

Protest planned for downtown Anaheim (200 S Anaheim Blvd) tonight.  It remains to be seen if the protesters have ran out of steam.

While the protest is going on, I suspect a CVS or Walgreens at another location will get hit by looters.

 

[momopi]

So conversely, how Kings asked why some of us weren't concerned about Covid spread with all these protests (which I actually was)... why aren't the anti-lockdown "cheerleaders" complaining about the curfews?

Surely these forced closings of businesses and requiring people to stay home is bad for the economy and taking away freedoms.

I think the stay-home-order and a planned curfews are different.

The lockdown without knowing how long or any details on it is pretty frustrating for everyone and it's wholly based on an uncertain disease called C-19 in this case. This one is very uncertain for every aspect.

The curfew is usually for like 8pm-5am kind of a thing for a day or two. It's also clearly to protect human lives from being harmed of robbery and looting in this case. There is no uncertainty on this at all.

https://www.dailynews.com/2020/06/0...or-these-southern-california-cities-counties/

These Southern California cities and counties will have curfews in place for Monday night, June 1, following unrest across the country after the death of George Floyd, who died in police custody in Minneapolis.

Los Angeles County

LA County: From 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. until further notice
Beverly Hills: 4 p.m. A 1 p.m. curfew will go into effect in the city?s business district.
Long Beach: 4 p.m. A 1 p.m. curfew will go into effect in the city?s business district. (* See note)
Santa Monica: 4 p.m. A 1 p.m. curfew will go into effect in the city?s business district.

The county order supersedes individual city curfews that were to go into effect later than 6 p.m.

Orange County

Anaheim: From 6 p.m. until 5:30 a.m. Tuesday
Costa Mesa: From 7 p.m. until 5:30 a.m. Tuesday.
Huntington Beach: From 8 p.m. to 5:30 a.m. until further notice.

Riverside County

Riverside County: From 6 p.m. until 6 a.m. Tuesday
Riverside: From 7 p.m. until 6 a.m. Tuesday.
The county order supersedes individual city curfews that were to go into effect later than 6 p.m.

San Bernardino County

San Bernardino: 6 p.m. to sunrise Tuesday
Fontana: 6 p.m. to sunrise until further notice.


* Note:
The time format indicates curfew that starts at 1PM for business districts and 4PM for city wide.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/lo...-day-of-tense-protests-clashes-in-long-beach/

National Guard troops remain in Long Beach Monday as local officials announced another day of curfew starting 1 p.m. for business districts and 4 p.m. citywide?an order stricter than L.A. County?s 6 p.m. curfew.

The earlier business curfew in Long Beach affects:

Belmont Shore and Naples
Bixby Knolls
Downtown Long Beach
Downtown Long Beach
East Anaheim
Fourth Street
Long Beach Airport
Magnolia Industrial Group
Midtown
Uptown
The Pike
Long Beach Towne Center
Douglas Park Business District
2ND & PCH

The order expires 5 a.m. Tuesday.

Mayor Robert Garcia proclaimed Monday?s curfew at a news conference a day after largely peaceful protests against police violence were disrupted by fires and looters who targeted retailers at the Pike Outlets in the downtown area.

Authorities said they had expected an organized protest in front of police headquarters in downtown but crowds grew quicker than expected Sunday afternoon, prompting police to call for assistance from surrounding law enforcement agencies and the National Guard.

 

[eyephone]

Trump just gave a phony press conference with no questions from reporters. He seemed nervous while giving his speech. Again he blamed the states and governors.