President Trump

[eyephone]

We are going to start another thread regarding governmental benefits. In my opinion, this has nothing to deal with Trump.

But I'm glad this topic is brought up.

 

[Movingup]

2 women joined the Trump team today. I have a good feeling that the future is very hopeful. Trump is surrounding himself with some bright minds and capable people.

 

[tim]

Old, white people do love their white privilige. My hope rests in knowing that the average lifespan in America is 79 years. Hopefully there won't be enough Trump voters alive to vote for him again.

Actually seems to me that Trump won the election because, while the Republican vote was down, the Democrat vote was down more. In the end, people voted for their tribe.

This is the same argument that was made as to why Trump couldn't be elected in the first place.  His was a dying demographic.

My hope rests in seeing that you, and others that think like you, haven't learned the correct lessons from this election.

Without all the conflict, I would actually like to know what you think the correct lessons are. If you do share, I promise I won't attack you at all. I really do want to know.

Here is my take on things. People without college degrees are really hurting, and have been for years. When the US unemployment rate hit 10% in 2009, I read that it was under 5% for people with college degrees and over 20% for those with no college. Things may be a little better now, but not enough. These people that have been so negatively affected place much blame on the federal government. For many people, that means the President.

Some of these same people (the ones that live outside the big cities) also tend to live in areas that are more white. They see the country becoming less homogeneous. They don't have exposure to other cultures (other ethnicities, other religions, non-traditional sexual identities) and have a little trepidation about it.

These people are afraid. I do not use that term as an insult.

In Trump, there is a person who reminds them of when things were more familiar. It seems like neither party is giving them any reason to have faith in them. So, they want the old, white guy to blow stuff up. What have they got to lose?

That is what I see.

This is why I have so much trouble with it. I see these people, and I want them to have happy, healthy lives. I was born in a small town in Iowa. I grew up poor. My brother is a union guy. The people who want to go back to when there were more coal jobs, back to when there were more manufacturing jobs are modern day Luddites (I use this term for its historical meaning, not as a derogatory term). The world has changed. It will continue to change. If you want to have a good career, you need to change.

The people putting their faith in Trump look like people in life rafts drinking ocean water to quench their thirst. He has never shown any concern for them. And now they think he will help them? Based on what? Based on what he says while running for President? You are going to base your vote on words rather than on actions?

I also have trouble with anyone rewarding Trump. He comes across to me as such a selfish, vile person. He bragged on Howard Stern about walking backstage at the Miss Universe pageant when the contestants weren't clothed. You want to reward a man that abuses his power to do that kind of thing? If your daughter was one of those girls, wouldn't you be upset that this dirty, old man was staring at your naked daughter when she didn't want him to? The people that voted for Trump just don't care because he hasn't done it to them. Just as they don't care about political correctness because they are not the ones that are offended by actions or words that society is trying to make unacceptable. Their fear for themselves has trumped their empathy.

I remember when a Midwest state was having an issue with gay marriage. A woman interviewed actually said that she didn't want gay marriage to be legal, but that she might feel differently if she knew a gay couple. Why would that be? There's some ability to think abstractly that is missing.

Remember when Trump said he could shoot someone and his supporters would still support him? Now, of course he was using the standard verbal tool of exaggeration to make a point. What I see in his supporters are people that would mostly not vote for him if he did that. But they will vote for a man that brags about sexual assault. They will vote for a man that bullies, insults, and shames people on a daily basis. Somewhere between that and murder they would change their vote even if his policies didn't change. For me, his behavior has already crossed that line.

There's never been a nominee of either party before in my lifetime as a voter who was so vile that I would not have voted for them if their policies matched my preferences. Trump is the exception. Many leaders (and newspapers) of his own party feel the same. It just blows my mind that there are so many people who do NOT think he is on the bad side of the line. And, no, it wasn't just him or Hillary. The Republican primary had several candidates that were not so vile.

 

[riznick]

If you are white and think you do not have white privilege, then you do not understand what the term "white privilege" means. Imagine having to go through all you have gone through. Now imagine doing all that AND being black.

I'll stop you right there.  It sounds like you are not describing white privilege, but rather a negative for being black.  It's not all black and white. 

If you think your life would then be easier, then you are not clued in to all the things that black people have to deal with.

You can't make such a statement as you don't know what others have gone through. 

And yes, I realize that on average society does treat people of different races differently.

When I talk about white privilege, it is not to make white people feel guilty. It is to acknowledge the benefits that white people have without even trying. It is to acknowledge that it is harder in this country to be brown-skinned. Maybe think of it as a phrase of empathy.

I am going to call you out on this based on how you used the term.  I don't think you are being honest with us and maybe not even to yourself.  I challenge you to critically think about it.  It's a term that has motivations.  It doesn't accomplish what you think it does.  But you don't care that others might take offense to it.  I hope you don't get offended for others when other motivated words are used.

 

[peppy]

If you are white and think you do not have white privilege, then you do not understand what the term "white privilege" means. Imagine having to go through all you have gone through. Now imagine doing all that AND being black.

I'll stop you right there.  It sounds like you are not describing white privilege, but rather a negative for being black.  It's not all black and white. 

If you think your life would then be easier, then you are not clued in to all the things that black people have to deal with.

You can't make such a statement as you don't know what others have gone through. 

And yes, I realize that on average society does treat people of different races differently.

When I talk about white privilege, it is not to make white people feel guilty. It is to acknowledge the benefits that white people have without even trying. It is to acknowledge that it is harder in this country to be brown-skinned. Maybe think of it as a phrase of empathy.

I am going to call you out on this based on how you used the term.  I don't think you are being honest with us and maybe not even to yourself.  I challenge you to critically think about it.  It's a term that has motivations.  It doesn't accomplish what you think it does.  But you don't care that others might take offense to it.  I hope you don't get offended for others when other motivated words are used.

You keep on using the term white privilege. I don't think you know what it means. Give Wikipedia a try. Maybe read Peggy McIntosh's papers.

 

[aquabliss]

Please watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9bu6CP318

 

[peppy]

White guilt != white privilege

Being mindful of a systemic unfairness in society does not mean that one has to give up any advantages that were present. I highly encourage you to watch Peggy McIntosh's TED talk. https://youtu.be/e-BY9UEewHw

 

[tim]

If you are white and think you do not have white privilege, then you do not understand what the term "white privilege" means. Imagine having to go through all you have gone through. Now imagine doing all that AND being black.

I'll stop you right there. It sounds like you are not describing white privilege, but rather a negative for being black. It's not all black and white. 

Oh, no, of course it is not just black and white. I was just using that as an example. And, yes, much of white privilege is a matter of not having to deal with the negatives that other races have to deal with in this country.

If you think your life would then be easier, then you are not clued in to all the things that black people have to deal with.

You can't make such a statement as you don't know what others have gone through. 

Okay, how about this. What if there was some magical way that let people change their skin color, but just once. So you can change it tomorrow, but you can never change it again. Would you change yours? How many white people in the USA would change to be black? How many black people would change to be white?

When I talk about white privilege, it is not to make white people feel guilty. It is to acknowledge the benefits that white people have without even trying. It is to acknowledge that it is harder in this country to be brown-skinned. Maybe think of it as a phrase of empathy.

I am going to call you out on this based on how you used the term. I don't think you are being honest with us and maybe not even to yourself. I challenge you to critically think about it. It's a term that has motivations. It doesn't accomplish what you think it does.  But you don't care that others might take offense to it. I hope you don't get offended for others when other motivated words are used.

When I said it earlier in the thread, the snarky asshole part of me came out. I apologize for that. I use humor [some would say I merely attempt to use humor] a lot, and sometimes it doesn't work out well.

Obviously, I am working through the cognitive dissonance that has filled my brain since the election.

I do care that others might take offense to the term. However, we still need SOME way to refer to the concept that the term is for. If I cannot use the term "white privilege" then what should I use? And aren't we now in the land of political correctness that the offendees don't like? I think when people understand what it really means, they would not be offended.

The motivations of words come from those using them. When I am being sincere, rather than snarky, I do not use the term "white privilege" to make people feel guilty. I wish more people could empathize more with others without feeling threatened. I wish I was better at it.

It now seems like we have diverged from the thread subject.

 

[upon9k]

Please watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9bu6CP318

The problem I find with Dinesh is that he's often very good at attacking people for hypocrisy, as he does very well in telling the student to give up his "illicit privilege".  He is basically telling the student the best way to promote actual social change is to lead by personal example.  However, when you apply the same litmus test to him, his arguments completely fall apart. 

For example, he likes to slam the Clintons for political corruption (more directly bribery).  Yet, this comes from a guy that served time in prison after pleading guilty to a bribery charge himself.  Of course, when he is at the brunt of hypocrisy like this, you see him totally downplaying what he did in comparison to those who supposedly support corruption for a living.  He also says things like "we should be welcoming immigrants of the first stripe."  This is a jab at "lazy" immigrants who somehow are able to extract benefit from the "safety net" that the American system provides.  Being that I'm an immigrant myself, I find it beyond offensive and distasteful when someone of questionable moral quality himself, thinks himself worthy to define the standards by which this country should be admitting immigrants. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Okay, how about this. What if there was some magical way that let people change their skin color, but just once. So you can change it tomorrow, but you can never change it again. Would you change yours? How many white people in the USA would change to be black? How many black people would change to be white?

If I get to retain my personality/intellect/etc I wouldn't mind being black more than white.

And if it came with the skills to get paid millions to play basketball... no brainer. 

But I understand your point for most people.

 

[WTTCHMN]

Okay, how about this. What if there was some magical way that let people change their skin color, but just once. So you can change it tomorrow, but you can never change it again. Would you change yours? How many white people in the USA would change to be black? How many black people would change to be white?

If I get to retain my personality/intellect/etc I wouldn't mind being black more than white.

So black people don't have your level of intellect?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Okay, how about this. What if there was some magical way that let people change their skin color, but just once. So you can change it tomorrow, but you can never change it again. Would you change yours? How many white people in the USA would change to be black? How many black people would change to be white?

If I get to retain my personality/intellect/etc I wouldn't mind being black more than white.

So black people don't have your level of intellect?

I knew someone would infer that. They are probably smarter... I was just saying I want to retain who I am and what I know because I can probably have the same or better life.

I realize skin color is still an issue but I am optimistic that the same opportunities in today's world can be had regardless.

 

[Movingup]

I knew someone would infer that. They are probably smarter... I was just saying I want to retain who I am and what I know because I can probably have the same or better life.

I realize skin color is still an issue but I am optimistic that the same opportunities in today's world can be had regardless.

So, are Black smarter or White are smarter? Or are all people just created equally? Anyways, this discussion has gone to Alice in Wonderland. Happy Thanksgiving and look forward to Ben Carson accepting the HUD secretary position.

 

[morekaos]

Taaaa-daaa!!!


Trump Sees Progress in Effort to Keep Carrier Plant in U.S


President-elect Donald Trump said he?s ?making progress? in his effort to prevent Carrier from moving a factory abroad, an issue that had become a rallying cry during his campaign.
?Will know soon!? he said Thursday on Twitter, saying he was working even on Thanksgiving to keep the plant in Indiana.

http://bloom.bg/2glHxy5

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I knew someone would infer that. They are probably smarter... I was just saying I want to retain who I am and what I know because I can probably have the same or better life.

I realize skin color is still an issue but I am optimistic that the same opportunities in today's world can be had regardless.

So, are Black smarter or White are smarter? Or are all people just created equally? Anyways, this discussion has gone to Alice in Wonderland. Happy Thanksgiving and look forward to Ben Carson accepting the HUD secretary position.

The takeaway here is that skin color is less important than character (tm MLK)... a black person can even be president of the United States (which was awesome regardless of what you think about Barack's politics/policies/successes/failures).

I look forward to the day when people are just people.

#onespecies
#nocolorlines

 

[morekaos]

Delivering on making America great again

Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S

From the earliest days of his campaign, Donald J. Trump made keeping manufacturing jobs in the United States his signature economic issue, and the decision by Carrier, the big air-conditioner company, to move over 2,000 of them from Indiana to Mexico was a tailor-made talking point for him on the stump.

On Thursday, Mr. Trump and Mike Pence, Indiana?s governor and the vice president-elect, plan to appear at Carrier?s Indianapolis factory to announce a deal with the company to keep roughly 1,000 jobs in the state, according to officials with the transition team as well as Carrier.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html?

 

[usctrojancpa]

I wonder if Trump can keep jobs from leaving California?  Oh wait, the People's Republic of California likes to tax its employers and income earners to death to help pay for spending happy politicians. 

 

[sgip]

No matter your politics, one has to ask why it took the President Elect and not the President to get this done. The NYT provides cover saying BHO would have been accused of meddling in private industry, but it also would have taken the wind out of DT's job saving crusade.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I wonder if Trump can keep jobs from leaving California?  Oh wait, the People's Republic of California likes to tax its employers and income earners to death to help pay for spending happy politicians. 

Did morekaos take over your account?

What is the net of jobs leaving vs jobs starting in Cali?

I'm going to assume that we're okay... poor business climate or not, people love to live/work in the Wessayeeeeed!

 

[Eao]

You have the consider that the 1,000 jobs are being kept in Indiana with incentives from the state not the federal government, so gov. Pence could have done it at any point in the past. The reality of it is that the plant will close, but now Carrier will layoff those 1000 employees over the next couple of years, not immediately.
The new plant in Mexico can export to the EU and Latam with tax reduction and the product lines being transferred require very little skills/training to operate.