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The shooter fired a single shot from 430 ft away. This required not only specialized firearms training, but a lot of planning to figure out where to shoot from and how to smuggle a high-powered rifle onto the building. I'm wondering if the audience member asking Charlie Kirk the question about trans mass shooters was also an accomplice. It doesn't seem coincidental.
So it looks very much like a militant attack.
If the trans-tifa messaging on the ammunition cartridges ends up being confirmed, then yes, this will be classified as an attack carried out by a trans militants.
morekaos makes the statement: Political violence is growing from one side and bases that on a right biased website (americanthinker.com). I actually want to know if that's true because there have been Democrats assassinated recently too (is someone going to make me cite that?).
It's easier to use ChatGPT (bias or not), which according to Irvine Buyer's research, could be using the last 50 years of history which points to more right violence, the ratio from ChatGPT was about 2:1 and actually sort of bears out 10 years vs 25 years based on IB's timeline.
There are obvious missteps with AI, I see it all the time which is why you have to refine your prompts or ask in a more contextual manner. But generally speaking (as zubs as pointed out), it strives to use multiple sources to come up with an answer.
But as Irvine Buyer pointed out, it's difficult to get the right answer about something that has nuances in the very bias you're trying to avoid. Determining whether an attack was from the left or right is less scientific than measuring climate change.
So I tried to make the question more contextual, with a time boundary and without all the details to make it easier to read;
As brief as possible, without any political bias, what has been the source of violence in the last 25 years, left or right?
In short: Right = more lethal, Left = more protest unrest.
---
The interesting thing in that answer is it called right extermists and left activists, so you can tell the sources had some bias.
I don't know what the truth is either way... just that regardless of the source, it's sad when anyone dies needlessly.
I think one thing all the shooters under age 30 have in common is they have gotten lost down some deep, dark Internet rabbit holes.
Prior to the Internet going mainstream in the late 90's, there really weren't school shootings more than a handful of times in history. That's why Columbine was so shocking. Now there's a Columbine happening every few weeks.
Or you criticize my links but you hadn't read those either?
You're not thinking, just talking... that's why I am going AI on you... because you don't read it anyways.
I can't even remember the last time you vetted anything. zubs is right... just let ChatGPT do the work.
morekaos
Well-known member
…And the shoe drops…What does Mr. Wizard have to say about this?...
Ammunition in Kirk Shooting Engraved With Transgender, Antifascist Ideology
Conservative commentator and author Charlie Kirk has died after being shot on stage during an event at Utah Valley University on Wednesday. Kirk, 31 years old, was one of the most influential figures on the right and founder and CEO of Turning Point USA, a powerful conservative youth organization.
The shooter is still at large. Authorities believe the shooting suspect is of college age, but cautioned that the investigation is in its early stages.
A high-powered rifle, including ammunition engraved with transgender and antifascist ideology, was recovered in a wooded area where the suspected shooter fled. Investigators say it is unclear how far the suspect might have traveled overnight.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/ch...fascist-ideology-sources-pdymd1sXXMSlVRhpvR4b
Ammunition in Kirk Shooting Engraved With Transgender, Antifascist Ideology
Conservative commentator and author Charlie Kirk has died after being shot on stage during an event at Utah Valley University on Wednesday. Kirk, 31 years old, was one of the most influential figures on the right and founder and CEO of Turning Point USA, a powerful conservative youth organization.
The shooter is still at large. Authorities believe the shooting suspect is of college age, but cautioned that the investigation is in its early stages.
A high-powered rifle, including ammunition engraved with transgender and antifascist ideology, was recovered in a wooded area where the suspected shooter fled. Investigators say it is unclear how far the suspect might have traveled overnight.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/ch...fascist-ideology-sources-pdymd1sXXMSlVRhpvR4b
Liar Loan
Well-known member
A militant is somebody that uses military style tactics against their political opponents. A trans militant is either a trans person or somebody aligned with trans ideology that believes using military tactics are justified in accomplishing their political goals (silencing the opposition).
The shooter fired a single shot from 430 ft away. This required not only specialized firearms training, but a lot of planning to figure out where to shoot from and how to smuggle a high-powered rifle onto the building. I'm wondering if the audience member asking Charlie Kirk the question about trans mass shooters was also an accomplice. It doesn't seem coincidental.
So it looks very much like a militant attack.
If the trans-tifa messaging on the ammunition cartridges ends up being confirmed, then yes, this will be classified as an attack carried out by a trans militants.
morekaos
Well-known member
You think Mr. Wizard will plot out a pattern?…
nypost.com
Minneapolis school shooter Robin Westman confessed he was ‘tired of being trans’: ‘I wish I never brain-washed myself’
In a twisted handwritten journal he shared on YouTube before the massacre, Westman groaned about his long hair and his decision to transition.
nypost.com
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irvine buyer
Active member
I did the work of researching left wing and right wing violence. All from information available online. During the 1960's and 1970's, more violence originated from the left. This shifted to the right up until about 10 years ago where it has shifted back towards the left. This might explain why so many on the right feel that the left is violent and vice versa.
One thing I noticed among the purveyors of such online information is inherent bias, which may be biasing the results one gets from the AI platforms. For example, The Colorado nightclub shooting is listed as a right-wing extremist shooting; yet the Covenant school shooting and the Annunciation church shooting are not listed as left-wing extremist shootings. Aldrich, the nightclub shooter, had made homophobic comments online and the nightclub was frequented by the LGBTQ community. He reported self-identified as non-binary. Hale, the Covenant school shooter who was transitioning to a male, had written in her manifesto about her hatred of Christians, fascists, and people with white privilege (Hale must have hated herself?!). Westman, who transitioned to a female, left a video with disjointed ramblings, far left militant ideology, and antisemitic remarks. IMO these three shooters probably suffered from mental illness, but let's see what Google's Gemini AI has to say:
The same question was posed to Gemini for all three incidents: "Was the (shooter's name) shooting an example of far-left violence?"
The 2022 Club Q shooting by Anderson Aldrich is not an example of far-left violence; instead, it was a far-right, anti-LGBTQ+ hate crime. No mention of him being non-binary or his they/them pronouns.
It is inaccurate and misleading to categorize Audrey Hale's shooting as an example of "far-left violence". The motive for Hale's 2023 attack on the Covenant School has been widely disputed, and there is no evidence that her actions were driven by a far-left political agenda. So according to Gemini, Hale's shooting is not a far-left hate crime even though the shooter left a manifesto expressing extreme left-wing hatred of Christians, fascists, and people with white privilege. By the way, Gemini refers to Aiden as Audrey hence my use of "her" not "him".
The shooting committed by Robin Westman at a Minneapolis Catholic church is not an example of far-left political violence. While Westman's writings included anti-Trump and anti-Israel phrases, which are sometimes associated with the political left, they also included neo-Nazi slogans and were filled with a toxic mix of extremist views that do not align with a clear political ideology. I was curious what neo-Nazi slogans Gemini was referring to and Gemini was happy to oblige:
. If this kind of bias is what goes into AI, then AI looks to be more like Wikipedia on steroids.
I pulled up the University of Maryland research report that ChatGPT refers to and it covers incidents from the 1960's through the 2000's. It doesn't seem to include incidents during the past 15 years which I think makes it less relevant to the conversation at hand. I did find one paragraph worth repeating here:
One thing I noticed among the purveyors of such online information is inherent bias, which may be biasing the results one gets from the AI platforms. For example, The Colorado nightclub shooting is listed as a right-wing extremist shooting; yet the Covenant school shooting and the Annunciation church shooting are not listed as left-wing extremist shootings. Aldrich, the nightclub shooter, had made homophobic comments online and the nightclub was frequented by the LGBTQ community. He reported self-identified as non-binary. Hale, the Covenant school shooter who was transitioning to a male, had written in her manifesto about her hatred of Christians, fascists, and people with white privilege (Hale must have hated herself?!). Westman, who transitioned to a female, left a video with disjointed ramblings, far left militant ideology, and antisemitic remarks. IMO these three shooters probably suffered from mental illness, but let's see what Google's Gemini AI has to say:
The same question was posed to Gemini for all three incidents: "Was the (shooter's name) shooting an example of far-left violence?"
The 2022 Club Q shooting by Anderson Aldrich is not an example of far-left violence; instead, it was a far-right, anti-LGBTQ+ hate crime. No mention of him being non-binary or his they/them pronouns.
It is inaccurate and misleading to categorize Audrey Hale's shooting as an example of "far-left violence". The motive for Hale's 2023 attack on the Covenant School has been widely disputed, and there is no evidence that her actions were driven by a far-left political agenda. So according to Gemini, Hale's shooting is not a far-left hate crime even though the shooter left a manifesto expressing extreme left-wing hatred of Christians, fascists, and people with white privilege. By the way, Gemini refers to Aiden as Audrey hence my use of "her" not "him".
The shooting committed by Robin Westman at a Minneapolis Catholic church is not an example of far-left political violence. While Westman's writings included anti-Trump and anti-Israel phrases, which are sometimes associated with the political left, they also included neo-Nazi slogans and were filled with a toxic mix of extremist views that do not align with a clear political ideology. I was curious what neo-Nazi slogans Gemini was referring to and Gemini was happy to oblige:
- Weapons were defaced with antisemitic and neo-Nazi phrases, including "6 million wasn't enough,". These are core tenets of far-right white supremacist ideology, not left-wing extremism.
. If this kind of bias is what goes into AI, then AI looks to be more like Wikipedia on steroids.I pulled up the University of Maryland research report that ChatGPT refers to and it covers incidents from the 1960's through the 2000's. It doesn't seem to include incidents during the past 15 years which I think makes it less relevant to the conversation at hand. I did find one paragraph worth repeating here:
More generally, there is growing evidence suggesting that extremists representing different ideologies may have more in common than has been assumed (20). For example, extreme liberals and conservatives both represent the social world in a similar, simplistic way, which distinguishes both groups from more moderate individuals (21). In studies of behavior in conf lict, one study (22) found that both right-wing and left-wing extremists used more negative and angrier language than moderates did. Finally, a strong inclination to defend one’s beliefs against worldview-violating groups and a low tolerance for such groups has been identified for both liberals and conservatives (23). Taken together, this research suggests that leftwing and right-wing extremists could be equally likely to use violence to pursue their ideological goals.
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sgip
Well-known member
Wanna guess what both Left and Right Wing mass shooters have in common?
A) Broken Families
B) Anti Depressants
Boo hoo all you want about how divorce is a primary cause of depressed shooters acting out against innocent. 90+ percent of shooters being in one or both categories says more about cause than R/L wing ideology ever will.
I haven't looked but I doubt AI prompts about this will dive deep enough hard data on this topic. You have to search shooter by shooter to get the background information. It will confirm all I've said above.
A) Broken Families
B) Anti Depressants
Boo hoo all you want about how divorce is a primary cause of depressed shooters acting out against innocent. 90+ percent of shooters being in one or both categories says more about cause than R/L wing ideology ever will.
I haven't looked but I doubt AI prompts about this will dive deep enough hard data on this topic. You have to search shooter by shooter to get the background information. It will confirm all I've said above.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
You miss the point.
morekaos makes the statement: Political violence is growing from one side and bases that on a right biased website (americanthinker.com). I actually want to know if that's true because there have been Democrats assassinated recently too (is someone going to make me cite that?).
It's easier to use ChatGPT (bias or not), which according to Irvine Buyer's research, could be using the last 50 years of history which points to more right violence, the ratio from ChatGPT was about 2:1 and actually sort of bears out 10 years vs 25 years based on IB's timeline.
There are obvious missteps with AI, I see it all the time which is why you have to refine your prompts or ask in a more contextual manner. But generally speaking (as zubs as pointed out), it strives to use multiple sources to come up with an answer.
But as Irvine Buyer pointed out, it's difficult to get the right answer about something that has nuances in the very bias you're trying to avoid. Determining whether an attack was from the left or right is less scientific than measuring climate change.
So I tried to make the question more contextual, with a time boundary and without all the details to make it easier to read;
As brief as possible, without any political bias, what has been the source of violence in the last 25 years, left or right?
ChatGPT said:
In the last 25 years in the U.S.:- Right-wing extremists have been responsible for most of the deadly violence.
- Left-wing activists have been more involved in protest-related unrest (riots, clashes, property damage).
In short: Right = more lethal, Left = more protest unrest.---
The interesting thing in that answer is it called right extermists and left activists, so you can tell the sources had some bias.
I don't know what the truth is either way... just that regardless of the source, it's sad when anyone dies needlessly.
morekaos
Well-known member
it’s not just on that website. I read everything, you really want me to cite 20 sources from all over the spectrum? it’s what I do for a living I have to look at both sides. I have MSNBC going 24/7 on one of my office screens..I watch it more than any other channel (I find it entertaining) Just use some common sense and you’ll see the truth, you don’t need to ask the Wizard of Oz nuanced questions.
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irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
But you only post the right leaning ones. If all your proof is from one side... how can you know it's the truth? Now that's common sense.
Liar Loan
Well-known member
In theory, anti-depressants should make somebody less likely to be a shooter. Could this be a case of correlation with anti-depressant usage but not causation?
I think one thing all the shooters under age 30 have in common is they have gotten lost down some deep, dark Internet rabbit holes.
Prior to the Internet going mainstream in the late 90's, there really weren't school shootings more than a handful of times in history. That's why Columbine was so shocking. Now there's a Columbine happening every few weeks.
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morekaos
Well-known member
So you want me to make a point after doing my own critical thinking and research and post only the articles and researchers that do not support my conclusion's? Why would I do that? I already vetted those sources so I will post the sources that support my conclusions.I also try my best to post from sources that are not considered “right” like Vox or huffington or CBS on MSNBC. If they support my premise then it must be true, right?
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irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
But you don't really do that. How many of your links have you even read the whole thing? How many times have I pointed out that what you post isn't actually what you thought it was.So you want me to make a point after doing my own critical thinking and research and post only the articles and researchers that do not support my conclusion's? Why would I do that? I already vetted those sources so I will post the sources that support my conclusions.I also try my best to post from sources that are not considered “right” like Vox or huffington or CBS on MSNBC. If they support my premise then it must be true, right?
Or you criticize my links but you hadn't read those either?
You're not thinking, just talking... that's why I am going AI on you... because you don't read it anyways.
I can't even remember the last time you vetted anything. zubs is right... just let ChatGPT do the work.