Microwaved Food Can Give You Cancer

<p>Just wanted to share this astonishing article with IHBrs. </p>

<p>It is kind of long, but the basic premise is that microwaving food converts some acids into carcinogens and there is research proving that ingesting such food damages blood's cell counts and other parameters within hours. And I've been microwaving milk for my toddler! My microwave won't ever be used again...</p>

<p><a target="l" href="http://www.health-science.com/microwave_hazards.html">http://www.health-science.com/microwave_hazards.html</a></p>
 
<p>It's not the appliance (ie. stove, oven, bbq, microwave) - it's the high temperatures. Turn the power down, cook on medium instead of high, then forget about it.</p>

<p>http://www.usaweekend.com/food/carper_archive/950625eat_smart_roasting.html</p>
 
<p>Thanks for the link, I just read it. It does not really alleviate the microwaved food concerns, it recommends cooking in the microwave! </p>

<p>The original article I was talking about links the danger not to the temperature, but rather to the fact that microwaved food is essentially a "radiated" food that is dangerous to consume. </p>
 
<p>I am sorry, that is so BS. Microwaves basically excite water molecules in foods and thus create heat. It is no different then heating that water on a stove. A microwave does "irradiate" food but only to the extent that it heats them up. Microwaves are low energy in nature and are not more dangerous than television or radio waves. Not to mention your microwave is heavily shielded just to alleviate people's concerns. </p>

<p>"Bad" radiation comes as a result of unstable atom when one or more of their electrons (or protons) are lost. It is basically the universe's way to get back to equilibrium. You basically have to knock one of the electrons or protons off of the atom in order to make it radioactive. (i.e. atomic bombs). That is not what microwaves do.</p>

<p>While there are many factors contributing to cancer, science still do not know what is the exact cause of it. Cancer can be increased by sitting in the sun, eating charred meat, smoking, living next to a factory but in varying degrees. In fact, cosmic rays (infinitely more dangerous than microwaves) goes through everything, including the Earth itself. Heck, the plate that one eats food off of probably causes cancer. People who live in Denver have a higher chance of getting cancer. However, many people who have no increased risk factors still get cancer. </p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven#Safety_benefits">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven#Safety_benefits</a></p>

<p><a href="http://50plus.com/display.cfm?t_offset=2&libraryID=106&cabinetID=323&documentID=18299">50plus.com/display.cfm</a></p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_rays">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_rays</a></p>

<p>You are welcome to do whatever you feel is the best for your kid but please do not be reactionary to one article or claim. Just like housing, one should do the research before making a decision. </p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>Irvine Commuter-thanks for the links, and yes, I usually don't jump to conclusions, but this seems different. If some research study says that microwaves are good for your health, microwave manufacturers benefit from it. If a study says they are not good for you, what do they have to gain? Unless of course they were funded by convection oven manufacturers :) Anyway, I'm still scared by that study. What if that's true? </p>
 
My sister is very Organic and she has been off the microwave for sometime. She would tell you the milk is bad too if its not Organic. Your sheets are also bad if the baby is not sleeping on organic. I could go on and on and on. To many things will give us a disease or kill us. What can you really do?
 
<p>Blackacre,</p>

<p>I understand your concern, after all it is your baby. People do not need money to motivate them to put out unsupported claims. Heck, you can find people on line who argue that human beings never went to the Moon, 9/11 was committed by the U.S. government, or that Nostradamus is a human crystal ball. However, you dig a little deeper, you will find that these claim are based on very little facts and a lot of guessing. Actually it is very much like housing. Realtors and pundits take a little bit of fact and make huge claims that are really not true. No one ever calls them on it so eventually it becomes true. Heck, why do we even accept numbers from the NAR or builders as true? </p>

<p>As far as whether the claim is true, I cannot absolutely positively say that microwaves are safe. However, I can tell you that doctors use microwave for treatment purposes, including as a possible treatment for breast and cervical cancer. (<a href="http://www.webmd.com/video/microwaves-breast-cancer">http://www.webmd.com/video/microwaves-breast-cancer</a>; <a href="http://www.webmd.com/cancer/cervical-cancer/news/20050907/futuristic-microwave-may-treat-cervical-cancer">www.webmd.com/cancer/cervical-cancer/news/20050907/futuristic-microwave-may-treat-cervical-cancer</a>) In fact, microwave food is beneficial in that it helps retain much of the nutrients in foods that are loss through convention cooking methods (i.e. boiling). </p>

<p>I believe that you, as a parent, has a lot more serious things to worry about than microwaves. For example, you should try and avoid giving antibotics to your kids unless it is absolutely necessary. Most parents nag their doctors into giving their kids antibotics when it is completely unnecessary and would lead to the creation of antibotic-resistant bacteria. I mean you have a lot higher chance of getting hurt in a car accident but that does not deter people from driving. It is just part of living in society, you have balance the benefits with the risks. In this case, my belief is that the risk is very very low. </p>

<p>Do your best and I am sure your baby will be healthy and happy. If it does bother you, heat up your baby's milk over a stove. </p>

<p> </p>
 
Thanks Irvine Commuter, what you say makes sense to me. I guess my concern is that 0.1% chance that those claims are true...

Wendyinoc: I also only buy organic foods for my kid, and about 50% organic for us. I gotta tell you, organic milk (esp. Horizon, whole milk) tastes so much better than nonorganic brands. Same goes for apples, carrots, beets, chicken, and berries. Everything else-I can't really tell the difference in taste, but hopefully there is some :) BTW, there are 2 products that must be organic (they accumulate the most pesticides): strawberries and lettuce...

As much as I'd love to start buying organic bedding, clothes and so on at least for my kid, it is so-ooo expensive...The full set for a toddler (including bedding and a mattress) was around 2K. Maybe one day I'll buy organic mattresses for the whole family. Did you know that most matresses are made of crude oil byproducts and emit some dangerous fumes when heated to around body temperature?

Living is dangerous, you know, people die from that :)
 
<p>Actually I think apples and green peppers accumulate the worst toxins.</p>

<p>After a while mattresses stop emitting/reduce emitting fumes as do other oil-derived products. Organic apples really taste differently than non organic.</p>

<p>Also, meat and dairy that are non organic usually have been injected with bovine (chicken, I'm not sure) growth hormone. Also, lots of anti-biotics. I try to avoid the non organic, but not fanatically.</p>

<p> </p>
 
What's scarier is the imported food/meat/seafood. Almost all of the ginger and garlic sold at supermarkets is imported (mainly from China). I remember reading there were 21 agencies in China that can grant food "organic" status. However, only 1 of the certifications is internationally recognized. Imagine what controls are in place? Same thing for mangos from India, very few get checked at the ports.
 
Really? I thought that those little stupid stickers on each fruit indicate that it was checked and, if organic, certified organic here in the U.S.

have you also noticed that sometimes grapes from Chile taste funny? if can definitely taste some chemicals in them. so i stopped buying them altogether since organic ones go for at least $3.99 per lbs...
 
<p>Blackacre....watch out ! You don't want to piss of that all powerful microwave oven lobby ! Oh, and here's a sticker for your car:</p>



<a onclick="setEbayLink('{#ss0ViewportLnk#}')" name="ss0ViewportLnk" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Vegetarians-Taste-Better-sticker-vegan-organic-food_W0QQitemZ140173354462QQihZ004QQcategoryZ39722QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118#ebayphotohosting">


 
black:



Now you're in my world. I used to farm grapes, the last "boss" I worked for had a Chilean operation.



I can tell you whatever pesticides they use there they use here. I used to pay the invoices for the US operation and audit the Chilean stuff. And I know how to drive a tractor and what side of the shovel works vs which side gets worked.



I wouldn't worry about the Chilean fruit (most of the growers there are actually based here) but I can tell you I am petrified of organic produce. I grew up on a farm and understand first hand why they use pesticides/herbacides, and it's not because farmers want to hurt the enviroment.



True story:



My wife went to the grocery store and got some organic produce on accident. She caught it in line when it scanned for three time the price of non organic stuff. The checker mentioned it was "organic" and my wife promptly told her "No, that won't do. My husband will have a fit" and asked the checker to swap it out. The checker looked at her like she had green hair and got somebody to swap it out.



My wife's family is also all growers. Her fathers' side farmed grapes and stonefruit, her mothers' side farms citrus. Half of the citrus is/was farmed organic but you can do citrus without hurting your food safety (think - where do those bugs really go and why are farmers dumping chemicals out there to kill them?) if you'll buy ugly oranges(all cosmetics). He had a deal where he sold them at the farmers market direct to the end customer. Most of those customers are looking for an orange that eats well first, and looks good......sometimes.



The Farmers' Market in Irvine is quite a treat if you want to cut down your grocery bill and get better quality (tasting) produce at the same time.
 
<p>no vaseline, "I am petrified of organic produce. I grew up on a farm and understand first hand why they use pesticides/herbacides, and it's not because farmers want to hurt the enviroment"</p>

<p>Now you really picked my curiosity, why do they use pesticides? I personally don't think they want to hurt the environment, it's just that persticide manufacturers crammed it down their throats over the years (just like Coca-cola, right, everybody knows that it disintegrates nails, what can it do to your stomach?). </p>

<p>I agree, I do buy nonorganic oranges and lemons and grapefruits, I don't think it is such a big deal for this type of fruit.</p>

<p>And you are right, my grocery store trip which used to be around $70-100 became $150-200. </p>

<p>Oh, and I'm not a complete stranger to life on a farm, even though growing up in a big city, my relatives had a farm where I spent several summers looking after some of the cattle...Fun times!</p>
 
<p>No - you misunderstand. Organic citrus is the only one I'll cross the line over. I could give a rip about cosmetics - I want produce that eats well. But the average consumer won't buy an ugly orange. I sat next to a guy on Thursday at the Toyota dealership that used to work sales for Libby Foods (they were a big canner 30 years ago). He told me his boss would get these grocery store product managers together and blind open Libby canned peaches and Del Monte at the same time. The Libby peaches were were bigger, prettier, and sweeter - because Libby standards of quality were higher. The Del Monte stuff still outsold Libby 4 to 1 because DM had a marketing budget 4x as big. Lesson - once it's in a can nobody can tell quality except for the marketing budget. </p>

<p>Back to the question:</p>

<p>The presticides are used to kill insects. Often, the insects start chewing away on the produce/fruit, making it unsalable because nobody wants to buy produce that's already been eaten. Sometimes, the insects won't hurt the crop but thier excrement leaves a sticky residue on the crop that makes it unsaleable - e.g. the silver leaf whitefly that ruined the produce business in Imperial County about 15 years ago. Other times, insects spread (vector) desease from plant to plant that kill plants - they get viruses sometimes too. Other times the insects will attack the plant, destroying it and all the crop it produces. </p>

<p>Fungicides are used to kill fungus (mold) on certain crops. Grapes need fungicides (even organic ones) because it's not safe to eat grapes with mildew on them.</p>

<p>Herbicides kill other plants. Some weeds are noxious, others just compete with what plants you are trying to grow. In a lot of cases, a hoe or shovel or a tractor mounted culivator works just as well, but sometimes you can't for a variety of reasons (economics/labor/weather/etc.).</p>

<p>Antibiotics work the same way in humans and animals. They use it for desease control. It is not a good practice to get your animals sick and let them "work through it" because when they get sick enough for your to notice they usually die. They can't tell you they have the sniffles and are getting worse. On that note, do you know why everybody doesn't free range chickens and they still put them into commercial chicken coops in high population numbers like this one?</p>

<p><img alt="" src="http://www.ehponline.org/members/2004/112-10/manychickens.jpg" /></p>

<p>Desease control! Chickens aren't smart enough to not eat their feces. This is the main way avain flu is spread - via thier feces. They keep these birds indoor thier whole life cycle, and they are able to clean the coop out of chicken poo at the end of the cycle - to break the cycle of desease. Free range chickens...........can't be cleaned out this way.</p>

<p>The controls to get into one of these operations is mind blowing. When you drive in, your vehicle is sprayed with a solution of water and bleach top and bottom. Then, you must go into a 'clean' area where you get protective boots/suits/masks so you don't track anything in or out of the coops. The coops are double doored to prevent any bird escaping or getting in. The whole flock is innoculated with antibiotics to prevent the spread of desease. In an indirect way anyone who eats free range chicken is doing thier part to promote bird flu. These growers don't want sick birds - they lose a cycle and they are out of business. One kid gets sick from badly processed chicken (where the real oppourtunity to screw up is - the chicken processor) and these guys pay the price. They certainly don't want to cause it.</p>

<p>Cotton, for example, is a crop that is easy to grow organically. Provided you can make an economic model where you can survive on 1/2 to1/10 the normal production because the predator insects you can't spray for destroy your crop while it's on the plant. That's why those sheets are so expensive. Someone is paying the risk premium.</p>

<p>Anyway, if you want to eat organic, it's absolutely your choice. I'm not going to give you grief for it (I know more than a couple 100% organic growers) but given the choice, I'll take the pesticide laden, antibiotic fed, non free range, whatever produce challenge every day. It's all safe. When I select foods, I have one critera above all others - taste. If it tastes bad, I don't want it. If you think you can taste the pesticides in the fruit you're getting, I got bad news - you can't! These compounds are colorless and oderless up to the point somebody adds stuff into them so the end users won't do something stupid like mistake them for another colorless and oderless fluid (water). What you probablly have is stuff that's not good quality. But there's lots of reasons for that (transportation is one, the price point desired by the store is another) and we'll have to keep that topic for another day.</p>

<p>Hope this is helpful.</p>
 
<p>Free range chicken tastes better. My mom was eating this chicken unbeknowst to her, and said how great it tasted, and that it tasted " the way chicken used to taste". Massive use of antibiotics for farm animals is making those antibiotics useless when needed for human disease. Plus the bugs are becoming resistant much faster, if they were only used for humans. i understand there isn't much coming down the pipe to replace the antibiotics we have for stronger ones. Disease bugs evolve much faster than we, or chickens evolve. So, it is quite possible that we will be out of luck, and the chickens and beef too.</p>

<p>My oranges and grapefruits and tangerines aren't so pretty as the waxed ones at the grocery store, but boy are they delicious. I do use artificial fertilizer, but they are never sprayed with pesticides or herbicides. They may eventurally bite the dust from vermin which have no effective spray anyhow. If the trees were dying, and there was something effective, I would spray--once.</p>

<p>My brocolli is usually yummy as are my cabbages. If you plant small scale and vary things year to year, the bugs don't find it. The turtles do tho. I have my yearly eviction of the turtles. The turtles would be yummy too, except that they are supposedly endangered. They are not endangered in my yard!! My roses could stand spraying, but they have so many diseases that the spraying would be constant. This is the southern end that you can possibly grow them. If you fertilze them enough they can outgrow their diseases. So that's what I try to do. Obviously you can't scale up most of this. </p>

<p>An organic apple really really does taste better, and more unique. Compare an organic Fuji apple with a regular grocery store apple. The Fuji organic will have a distinctive taste, so distinctive, you may not like it. The grocery store apply will just taste like an ordinary apple.</p>

<p>(Gourmet food for the gourmet kitchen, er, gourmand TonyE)</p>
 
<p>The PhD in physics hub sez that the microwave article is nonsense. Flat earth type nonsense. Darwin was wrong nonsense.</p>

<p>Of course, not-using-a-microwave is not nonsense that will hurt you.</p>
 
<p>The difference in taste in the free range birds vs the conventional birds is from the way they are processed. The birds eat identical. I knew somebody who worked for Foster Farms and would occassionally take a live bird home to his grandma who would "fix it up" old skool style. She said the same thing, even though she cooked the same Foster Farms bird every Sunday (most of those came from the store) you could totally tell.</p>

<p>The same thing is true about beef. They wet age most supermarket meat for two or three days - where they wrap the carcas up and pump water through it. I go to the trouble of buying a hind quarter or half a beef and getting it dry aged 21 days because I can't buy the quality I want at the grocery and I can tell the difference. No commercial processor is going to dry age a steak 21 days because it requires them to increase thier freezer space by a factor of 10 times - PLUS they lose 15% of the carcass weight as they age it.</p>

<p>There is nothing wrong with the way you are farming citrus. Did you know that Florida doesn't have any table citrus - it all goes to juice. They can't beat the scale problem (all cosmetics) so they don't even try. Your average consumer won't buy ugly fruit, but they are consistantly suprised how good thier ugly fruit they grow tastes good. It's because they leave it on the tree longer, giving it a chance to 'sugar up' , while it's cosmetics get worse by the hour.</p>

<p>This is why your organic apple tastes better. The variety is the same, but they allow it to stay on the tree longer so it sugars up more. You must understand that at the packing house, the really tasty fruit is rejected (culled) because it will rot in the 10 days to 60 days the stuff sits in the cold storage before it sees the store. If I was at a packing house and wanted a good (whatever they were packing that day) I'd go stand by the cull pile and take one that otherwise was going to become cattle feed. Same thing for canning tomatos - the really good ones ready to eat would get culled out on the sorting line because they would rot before they could be processed. For the better part of a decade I had a shaker of salt on my dashboard, and I'd have fresh tomatos for breakfast three months out of the year. Ate them like apples. You couldn't have them for lunch because tomatos are full of water and after sitting in the sun in 100 degree Fresno heat by lunch they were so hot you couldn't eat them.</p>

<p>Scale is exactly the problem. You have sixty square feet of something, you can fight the insect population with a garden hose (an effective insecticide!). You get 40 or 160 acres, it isn't so easy.</p>

<p>It might suprise most readers to know this, but what decides your fruit/produce quality isn't the pesticides - it's the logistics getting it to your table. Waiting till stuff is at it's peak and picking it only to have it rot in the cold storage awaiting delevery isn't a solution, but picking early (before it's really ready) is.</p>
 
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