[IHB] API & Equity

[MovingOnUp]

2 - Still working at the big 4

so these guys must be senior managers?  i think there was on asian partner in the whole LA office when i was there.  it was actually interesting because a good chunk of the staff level was asian, and the higher up the ladder you went the less asians there were. the majority of the partners were white men.

One is a senior manager here in socal, the other is a manager who just recently transferred to asia.

Many reasons. First, there is a glass ceiling. Second, it's not that asians are social misfits because we only study, the corporate culture goes against the way we're raised. Asians are taught to respect elders and do as an elder says, even if we know it's not the best way. We never call elders by their first name and are not on the same level. No matter how americanized we are, that is engrained in us.

Now we enter corporate america and we're expected to shoot the $hit w/ older white people. It's just not natural. As a result, we're not easily able to sit and joke w/ older male partners, have a beer, talk sports, girls, etc., resulting in us getting overlooked and not be one of the good ol' boys.

 

[homer_simpson]

So what do all of these incredibly smart asians become once they graduate from college?  i rarely see asians in management positions. do they just become behind the scenes engineers? doctors? lawyers?

Pretty much nailed it on the head, Doctors, Lawyers and Engineers.  Probably a hell of a lot more spreadsheet monkeys too since a majority of my analyst here are Asian. 

For larger companies I have not seen too many Asians in Director levels and above but for smaller companies I've seen a handful of Asian Directors and CFOs. 

 

[abcd1234]

So, if you recognize this, how do you break the habit?

I work with 2 Asian guys (in Finance).  One is maybe 27 (born here) and went to Berkeley.  Yes he is smart but he is so incredibly socially awkward that it is painful for me to watch him interact with people.  He is getting excluded from meetings because he acts so subservient.  I am at least 15 years older than him and I have tried to talk with him, mentor him, to help him gain confidence and act with authority, but it seems like he prefers to be out of the limelight, which unfortunately will hold him back professionally.    He literally is bowing his head to people, and when a white good ol' boy prospect comes in, I cringe because he looks so silly doing this.  There is another guy (born in Korea) that isn't as bad, but still, will probably be looked over for someone who can at least hold a conversation.  I see them more as behind-the-scenes number crunchers/workhorses but not dealmakers.  The only meetings they go to are when the salespeople from Bloomberg, BlackRock come in to the office and noone else wants to deal with them.

 

[homer_simpson]

So, if you recognize this, how do you break the habit?

Quickly move out of Irvine so your kids will have some diversity!!

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

This is the exact reason why Asians are being taken advantaged of like expensive cheap housing.

So, if you recognize this, how do you break the habit?

I work with 2 Asian guys (in Finance).  One is maybe 27 (born here) and went to Berkeley.  Yes he is smart but he is so incredibly socially awkward that it is painful for me to watch him interact with people.  He is getting excluded from meetings because he acts so subservient.  I am at least 15 years older than him and I have tried to talk with him, mentor him, to help him gain confidence and act with authority, but it seems like he prefers to be out of the limelight, which unfortunately will hold him back professionally.    He literally is bowing his head to people, and when a white good ol' boy prospect comes in, I cringe because he looks so silly doing this.  There is another guy (born in Korea) that isn't as bad, but still, will probably be looked over for someone who can at least hold a conversation.  I see them more as behind-the-scenes number crunchers/workhorses but not dealmakers.  The only meetings they go to are when the salespeople from Bloomberg, BlackRock come in to the office and noone else wants to deal with them.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

China rising to super power is the reason why companies must have Asians at the top tier and especially mandarin literate individuals.

 

[qwerty]

There is a very big commitment to diversifying the partner ranks.  Not just that it is the right thing to do because it reflects our workforce, but there are tremendous opportunities with international clients and a diverse partnership opens more doors.

Ill believe it when i see it. the big four have been committed to diversifying at the partner level since i started in 99. although 8 out of 53 aint bad.

 

[qwerty]

2 - Still working at the big 4

so these guys must be senior managers?  i think there was on asian partner in the whole LA office when i was there.  it was actually interesting because a good chunk of the staff level was asian, and the higher up the ladder you went the less asians there were. the majority of the partners were white men.

One is a senior manager here in socal, the other is a manager who just recently transferred to asia.

Many reasons. First, there is a glass ceiling. Second, it's not that asians are social misfits because we only study, the corporate culture goes against the way we're raised. Asians are taught to respect elders and do as an elder says, even if we know it's not the best way. We never call elders by their first name and are not on the same level. No matter how americanized we are, that is engrained in us.

Now we enter corporate america and we're expected to shoot the $hit w/ older white people. It's just not natural. As a result, we're not easily able to sit and joke w/ older male partners, have a beer, talk sports, girls, etc., resulting in us getting overlooked and not be one of the good ol' boys.

until asians fix this they will always remain behind the scenes.  im mexican and it wasnt normal for me to be hanging out with older white guys or shoot the shit with them but i knew long before i started my professional career that getting these old white guys to like me was going to be my meal ticket.  My intelligence was only going to take me so far.  My mentor when i first started at the big 4 told me that i was going to outshine my peers, not because i was smarter than them, but because i had more street smarts and common sense than the rest of them.  For the most part, he has been right. I make the most out of my friends that i graduated with, and i make more than most of my starting class except for a couple of them.  a good leader has good emotional intelligence, you hire guys that are smarter than you to do the heavy lifting.

 

[MovingOnUp]

So, if you recognize this, how do you break the habit?

I work with 2 Asian guys (in Finance).  One is maybe 27 (born here) and went to Berkeley.  Yes he is smart but he is so incredibly socially awkward that it is painful for me to watch him interact with people.  He is getting excluded from meetings because he acts so subservient.  I am at least 15 years older than him and I have tried to talk with him, mentor him, to help him gain confidence and act with authority, but it seems like he prefers to be out of the limelight, which unfortunately will hold him back professionally.    He literally is bowing his head to people, and when a white good ol' boy prospect comes in, I cringe because he looks so silly doing this.  There is another guy (born in Korea) that isn't as bad, but still, will probably be looked over for someone who can at least hold a conversation.  I see them more as behind-the-scenes number crunchers/workhorses but not dealmakers.   The only meetings they go to are when the salespeople from Bloomberg, BlackRock come in to the office and noone else wants to deal with them.

Watch how they interact with their peers and the staff below them. This should be a good indication on how they might behave when they age and move up the corporate ladder.

Enjoy/appreciate your little asian workhorse. The guy will bend backwards to make you (his boss) look good and publicly give you all the credit. In return, he's hoping that you'll make him boss one day where he'll prove that he has a backbone. Minus the politics, he may even do a better job than you.

 

[qwerty]

So, if you recognize this, how do you break the habit?

I work with 2 Asian guys (in Finance).  One is maybe 27 (born here) and went to Berkeley.  Yes he is smart but he is so incredibly socially awkward that it is painful for me to watch him interact with people.  He is getting excluded from meetings because he acts so subservient.  I am at least 15 years older than him and I have tried to talk with him, mentor him, to help him gain confidence and act with authority, but it seems like he prefers to be out of the limelight, which unfortunately will hold him back professionally.    He literally is bowing his head to people, and when a white good ol' boy prospect comes in, I cringe because he looks so silly doing this.  There is another guy (born in Korea) that isn't as bad, but still, will probably be looked over for someone who can at least hold a conversation.  I see them more as behind-the-scenes number crunchers/workhorses but not dealmakers.  The only meetings they go to are when the salespeople from Bloomberg, BlackRock come in to the office and noone else wants to deal with them.

executive presence is critical, they should teach that to the asians in high school irvine school district, or at UCI.

 

[MovingOnUp]

2 - Still working at the big 4

so these guys must be senior managers?  i think there was on asian partner in the whole LA office when i was there.  it was actually interesting because a good chunk of the staff level was asian, and the higher up the ladder you went the less asians there were. the majority of the partners were white men.

One is a senior manager here in socal, the other is a manager who just recently transferred to asia.

Many reasons. First, there is a glass ceiling. Second, it's not that asians are social misfits because we only study, the corporate culture goes against the way we're raised. Asians are taught to respect elders and do as an elder says, even if we know it's not the best way. We never call elders by their first name and are not on the same level. No matter how americanized we are, that is engrained in us.

Now we enter corporate america and we're expected to shoot the $hit w/ older white people. It's just not natural. As a result, we're not easily able to sit and joke w/ older male partners, have a beer, talk sports, girls, etc., resulting in us getting overlooked and not be one of the good ol' boys.

until asians fix this they will always remain behind the scenes.  im mexican and it wasnt normal for me to be hanging out with older white guys or shoot the shit with them but i knew long before i started my professional career that getting these old white guys to like me was going to be my meal ticket.  My intelligence was only going to take me so far.  My mentor when i first started at the big 4 told me that i was going to outshine my peers, not because i was smarter than them, but because i had more street smarts and common sense than the rest of them.  For the most part, he has been right. I make the most out of my friends that i graduated with, and i make more than most of my starting class except for a couple of them.  a good leader has good emotional intelligence, you hire guys that are smarter than you to do the heavy lifting.

For asians, it has nothing to do with race. Asians would have a hard time with older asians as well, if not worse.

 

[roundcorners]

http://gmj.gallup.com/content/649/connectedness.aspx
Connectedness is at the heart of my being and relationships are the core components of my existence.  It is the lifeline to my maker, my wife, kid, family and friends.  My clients hold my retirement account; it?s not my bank account, IRA; talents or skills; it is people who I entrust my life savings to.  I take care of them, they take care of me.  As long as I have these relationships; I will never go without a meal, a roof over my head or cloths on my back.  I could have all the money in the world, yet without them; I would be a pauper.  Conversely, I would gladly trade any material possession for relational equity.  Most Asians don?t realize this, but relational equity is like an IRA account; you can?t start saving for it past a certain age; it will simply be too late.  You time will pass; and you will not be able to compound those experiences in the time you have left.  The people around you, as you get older will not trust you; there is simply not enough time to have built that trust; and more and more people around you will be strangers, until you end up in a retirement home, alone, talking to yourself in front of the TV.

Now? do you see the importance of, what you define as, Home?  How do you define your community and what interactions you cultivate inside your home?  It?s not just academics, it?s not even close.  Home is where the relationships are; it can be anywhere; yes, even Irvine.  So you have to ask yourself; is my city, neighborhood, block or street conducive to connectedness or is it deterrence for relationships.  Am I too busy for the person next door; or am I willing to let people in; and vice versa.  Do the people closest to me, geographically; have elements where we can have the best possible chance of genuine relationships or will the social norms continue to be consume in awkwardness?

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

That is a fine young man!

 

[abcd1234]

Moving up

Don't sound so bitter- I am actually on your side

You mentioned-

"Watch how they interact with their peers and the staff below them. This should be a good indication on how they might behave when they age and move up the corporate ladder. "

Unfortunately, I don't see them lasting at the company if they want to make something of themselves- (btw I am not their boss nor do I work at the same company- I am just trying to help him wise up).  They need to realize themselves that to advance they need to act differently.  They have to reinvent themselves at another firm.

When the staff receptionist with a mediocre education (whose job it is) to unload the dishwasher gets an attitude and this kid with the CFA is unloading the office's dishes, that should be enough to make anyone shake this kid's shoulders and say "what the heck are you doing?"

 

[MovingOnUp]

Moving up

Don't sound so bitter- I am actually on your side

You mentioned-

"Watch how they interact with their peers and the staff below them. This should be a good indication on how they might behave when they age and move up the corporate ladder. "

Unfortunately, I don't see them lasting at the company if they want to make something of themselves- (btw I am not their boss nor do I work at the same company- I am just trying to help him wise up).  They need to realize themselves that to advance they need to act differently.  They have to reinvent themselves at another firm.

When the staff receptionist with a mediocre education (whose job it is) to unload the dishwasher gets an attitude and this kid with the CFA is unloading the office's dishes, that should be enough to make anyone shake this kid's shoulders and say "what the heck are you doing?"

Not bitter at all. I've achieved decent success in my career and have moved up pretty quickly.
Honestly this guy just sounds weak in all aspects of his life. Find a new pet project, dude sounds hopeless.

 

[traceimage]

http://gmj.gallup.com/content/649/connectedness.aspx
Connectedness is at the heart of my being and relationships are the core components of my existence.  It is the lifeline to my maker, my wife, kid, family and friends.  My clients hold my retirement account; it?s not my bank account, IRA; talents or skills; it is people who I entrust my life savings to.  I take care of them, they take care of me.  As long as I have these relationships; I will never go without a meal, a roof over my head or cloths on my back.  I could have all the money in the world, yet without them; I would be a pauper.  Conversely, I would gladly trade any material possession for relational equity.  Most Asians don?t realize this, but relational equity is like an IRA account; you can?t start saving for it past a certain age; it will simply be too late.  You time will pass; and you will not be able to compound those experiences in the time you have left.  The people around you, as you get older will not trust you; there is simply not enough time to have built that trust; and more and more people around you will be strangers, until you end up in a retirement home, alone, talking to yourself in front of the TV.

Now? do you see the importance of, what you define as, Home?  How do you define your community and what interactions you cultivate inside your home?  It?s not just academics, it?s not even close.  Home is where the relationships are; it can be anywhere; yes, even Irvine.  So you have to ask yourself; is my city, neighborhood, block or street conducive to connectedness or is it deterrence for relationships.  Am I too busy for the person next door; or am I willing to let people in; and vice versa.  Do the people closest to me, geographically; have elements where we can have the best possible chance of genuine relationships or will the social norms continue to be consume in awkwardness?

Hurray for semicolons! They are my favorite punctuation mark.

 

[homer_simpson]

Traceimage- You always put a smile on my face with your post

 

[traceimage]

Traceimage- You always put a smile on my face with your post

Awwww, thanks.

As a thank you, you can send me a dozen doughnuts...I prefer the cake variety. 

 

[locolocal]

So what do all of these incredibly smart asians become once they graduate from college?  i rarely see asians in management positions. do they just become behind the scenes engineers? doctors? lawyers?

What an astute observation!  I graduated from an Irvine high school many moons ago.  Even back then it was still one of the top ranked public high schools in California despite my AP classes only being 50% Asian.  You would think by now my classmates would be political leaders, CEOs or have achieved some high profile recognition, but that's not the case (not counting the handful that have made the papers after their arrests).  By any other standard they are successful; they have a decent career, a family and were able to find happiness. 

Interestingly I would say a majority of my high school friends I keep in contact with have moved out of California for good.  They don't feel like this is the place to raise their family.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Their Irvine childhood must had been extremely traumatic to drive them all out of states. My kid is a president for one of the clubs in High School and did a survey of how other kids rate their city. From the kids point of view Irvine received a average of 2 out of 10. kids point of view is very different from adults raving review.