irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
You’ve said that before. Use a better argument.
ICE or EV?
- Thread starter irvinehomeowner
- Start date
morekaos
Well-known member
The scam rolls out smooth as silk….
Two years later, the program has yet to install a single charger
In the House in November, GOP lawmakers offered amendments to the transportation spending bill to strip funding from the charging programs created by the infrastructure law.
“Not only is such an endeavor not the federal government’s responsibility, this program doesn’t work, won’t work and will end up wasting massive amounts of federal money,” Rep. Harriet Hageman (R-Wyo.) argued on the House floor.
www.politico.com
Congress provided $7.5B for electric vehicle chargers. Built so far: Zero.
The sluggish rollout could undermine President Joe Biden’s reelection messaging promoting electric vehicles.Two years later, the program has yet to install a single charger
In the House in November, GOP lawmakers offered amendments to the transportation spending bill to strip funding from the charging programs created by the infrastructure law.
“Not only is such an endeavor not the federal government’s responsibility, this program doesn’t work, won’t work and will end up wasting massive amounts of federal money,” Rep. Harriet Hageman (R-Wyo.) argued on the House floor.
Congress provided $7.5B for electric vehicle chargers. Built so far: Zero.
The sluggish rollout could undermine President Joe Biden’s reelection messaging promoting electric vehicles.
www.politico.com
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
More about this, Tesla shared how they did it with other automakers to push the adoption of 48v systems:
Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers to move the industry
One of the less obvious features of the Tesla Cybertruck is its vehicle voltage architecture. The Cybertruck is the first...
electrek.co
So while I don't like the push to only a central screen (no driver display) and less physical controls, Tesla does have useful innovations to help the legacy automakers (like Gigacasting).
ICE benefits from EV advancements.
morekaos
Well-known member
Good, lets stop wasting our money so millionaires can have nice toys and let the markets determine winners and losers…
Say goodbye to EV tax credit in 2024: Here's why buying a Tesla, Ford or another electric vehicle could cost you up to $7,500 extra after federal government makes major change
· EVs with batteries from China no longer eligible for $7,500 tax credit
· For many Americans, the incentive is a key driver to swap to pricier electric cars
· Ford Mustang, and some Teslas and Nissan models at risk of having their subsidies cut under new IRS guidelines
Ford Expects Mach-E Will Lose Federal Tax Credit
The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) dramatically changed what vehicles are eligible for the electric vehicle federal tax credit. Things with the federal EV tax credit are set to change again on January 1, 2024, which could see the current roster of EVs that are eligible for the credit shrink. Ford expects the changes to result in the Mustang Mach-E losing its eligibility for any portion of the federal tax credit and has sent a heads up to its dealers.
www.carsdirect.com
Say goodbye to EV tax credit in 2024: Here's why buying a Tesla, Ford or another electric vehicle could cost you up to $7,500 extra after federal government makes major change
· EVs with batteries from China no longer eligible for $7,500 tax credit
· For many Americans, the incentive is a key driver to swap to pricier electric cars
· Ford Mustang, and some Teslas and Nissan models at risk of having their subsidies cut under new IRS guidelines
Ford Expects Mach-E Will Lose Federal Tax Credit
The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) dramatically changed what vehicles are eligible for the electric vehicle federal tax credit. Things with the federal EV tax credit are set to change again on January 1, 2024, which could see the current roster of EVs that are eligible for the credit shrink. Ford expects the changes to result in the Mustang Mach-E losing its eligibility for any portion of the federal tax credit and has sent a heads up to its dealers.
Ford Expects Mach-E Will Lose Federal Tax Credit
The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) dramatically changed what vehicles are eligible for the electric vehicle federal tax credit. Things with the federal EV tax credit
The incentives were helpful but people buy EVs because they want them. My first M3 base was mid 30s after the fed and state incentives. The 26% tax credit for solar and powerwall was much more of a factor in making that purchase especially given I paid zero out of pocket.Good, lets stop wasting our money so millionaires can have nice toys and let the markets determine winners and losers…
Say goodbye to EV tax credit in 2024: Here's why buying a Tesla, Ford or another electric vehicle could cost you up to $7,500 extra after federal government makes major change
· EVs with batteries from China no longer eligible for $7,500 tax credit
· For many Americans, the incentive is a key driver to swap to pricier electric cars
· Ford Mustang, and some Teslas and Nissan models at risk of having their subsidies cut under new IRS guidelines
Ford Expects Mach-E Will Lose Federal Tax Credit
The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) dramatically changed what vehicles are eligible for the electric vehicle federal tax credit. Things with the federal EV tax credit are set to change again on January 1, 2024, which could see the current roster of EVs that are eligible for the credit shrink. Ford expects the changes to result in the Mustang Mach-E losing its eligibility for any portion of the federal tax credit and has sent a heads up to its dealers.
Ford Expects Mach-E Will Lose Federal Tax Credit
The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) dramatically changed what vehicles are eligible for the electric vehicle federal tax credit. Things with the federal EV tax credit
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
I upsized my solar from 18 to 24 panels when the bumped the tax credit to 30% on solar and that's when I decided to buy my EV since my home charging would be highly discounted or free at EA stations. Last year I spent over $8,000 on gas and this year I don't think I've hit $800 yet (my ICE cars).
aquabliss
Well-known member
You missed the best 2 items:
- It’s bulletproof (just make sure you duck so they can‘t hit you through the window.
- I can park at Spectrum without having to worry about door dings.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Lucid (LCID) is getting booted from the Nasdaq 100 stock index
EV maker Lucid (LCID) is set to lose its spot in the Nasdaq 100 index at the end of the...
electrek.co
I think Lucid was on my questionable list.
I'm not so one sided to not recognize not all EVs can make it.
sgip
Well-known member
Without universal standard adoption any battery replacement operation will be financially impossible... But that never stops anyone nowadays.
I've seen more Lucids on the road recently, but that may just because of cheaper leasing.
Lucid, Fisker, Rivian (sure to draw a contrarian view....) are all on my short list of soon to fail EV manufacturers. The Big 3 and Non US auto manufacturers can scale back EV production, relying on ICE's for profitability. When your only product is an EV, not much room to wiggle out of a tight spot.
Reminds me of this article, how Vegan restaurants now have turned back to Meat based menu items because the Vegan only option wasn't cutting it.
www.sfgate.com
I've seen more Lucids on the road recently, but that may just because of cheaper leasing.
Lucid, Fisker, Rivian (sure to draw a contrarian view....) are all on my short list of soon to fail EV manufacturers. The Big 3 and Non US auto manufacturers can scale back EV production, relying on ICE's for profitability. When your only product is an EV, not much room to wiggle out of a tight spot.
Reminds me of this article, how Vegan restaurants now have turned back to Meat based menu items because the Vegan only option wasn't cutting it.
'It was exhausting': LA vegan restaurants are putting meat back on the menu
Some restaurants are deciding that offering an all-vegan menu isn’t a recipe for success.
www.sfgate.com
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I think Rivian has gotten to it's almost Model 3 phase (they have a cheaper R2 line coming out) so I think they will be okay.
I also have my doubts about Lucid and Fisker.
What I don't understand about vegan options (not just all-vegan places) but why is it MORE expensive than meat?
I also have my doubts about Lucid and Fisker.
What I don't understand about vegan options (not just all-vegan places) but why is it MORE expensive than meat?
qwerty
Well-known member
My guess is that they think vegan as a premium category and charge accordingly. Kind of like the healthy organic stuff in the grocery stores. If all you are serving is vegetables it seems like it should be cheaper.
sgip
Well-known member
A restaurant might easily sell 50 real meat burgers in a day at $10.00 per unit. The previous "Only Vegan" option might barely sell 25 Vegan burgers per day, so the price - $20.00 per unit - has to make up the something equal to the same $500 cost of doing business. This is an oversimplification, but a likely issue these owners have to consider.
Tesla's production margins are very high relative to manufacturers of ICE products. Much of this has to do with legacy issues like union contracts, lack of automation, dealership costs, etc. ICE's have far more moving parts than EV's so cost to build is higher, squeezing their margins further. Still ICE products sell more than EV's so in fact, they "do make it up in volume" as the saying goes. Tesla had some lean years in the beginning, but now is king of the hill and expected to remain so for some time.
Tesla's production margins are very high relative to manufacturers of ICE products. Much of this has to do with legacy issues like union contracts, lack of automation, dealership costs, etc. ICE's have far more moving parts than EV's so cost to build is higher, squeezing their margins further. Still ICE products sell more than EV's so in fact, they "do make it up in volume" as the saying goes. Tesla had some lean years in the beginning, but now is king of the hill and expected to remain so for some time.
The Motor Court Company
Well-known member
Good call. Lucid CFO just stepped outLucid (LCID) is getting booted from the Nasdaq 100 stock index
EV maker Lucid (LCID) is set to lose its spot in the Nasdaq 100 index at the end of the...
I think Lucid was on my questionable list.
I'm not so one sided to not recognize not all EVs can make it.
marmott
Active member
So much depreciation on high end EVs and in particular Lucid Air: https://carsandbids.com/search/lucid/air
This one is a good exemple, purchase for $180K in Oct 2022 and sold in Apr 2023 for $99.5K with 1700 miles.. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KYdMvg7v/2022-lucid-air-grand-touring-performance
This one is a good exemple, purchase for $180K in Oct 2022 and sold in Apr 2023 for $99.5K with 1700 miles.. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KYdMvg7v/2022-lucid-air-grand-touring-performance
The Motor Court Company
Well-known member
Ford to cut F150 lightening production by 50%…
morekaos
Well-known member
Slow motion disaster….
“Given the all-in approach to electric vehicles at Ford and General Motors, it’s clear that Detroit never got the message.”
For a while, EV sales were brisk. But the bottom has fallen out now that most of the wealthy, early-adaptor, virtue-signaling homeowners have bought theirs.
The rest of the car-buying public is more concerned with mundane things such as affordability, range, and not having to worry about the car spontaneously blowing up.
The government never admits a mistake. So the leftists who run it will just shower more taxpayer subsidies. There’s already talk of an industry bailout as car makers try to absorb the massive losses they are incurring on their EV lines.
And, if more subsidies don’t work, the left will simply ban gas-powered cars outright. That’s what California and several other liberal states are already planning, and it’s why the Biden administration wants to impose regulations that would force two-thirds of new cars sold to be electric.
Consumers, and taxpayers, be damned.
issuesinsights.com
EVs Aren’t The Edsel Of The 21st Century — They’re Far Worse
“Given the all-in approach to electric vehicles at Ford and General Motors, it’s clear that Detroit never got the message.”
For a while, EV sales were brisk. But the bottom has fallen out now that most of the wealthy, early-adaptor, virtue-signaling homeowners have bought theirs.
The rest of the car-buying public is more concerned with mundane things such as affordability, range, and not having to worry about the car spontaneously blowing up.
The government never admits a mistake. So the leftists who run it will just shower more taxpayer subsidies. There’s already talk of an industry bailout as car makers try to absorb the massive losses they are incurring on their EV lines.
And, if more subsidies don’t work, the left will simply ban gas-powered cars outright. That’s what California and several other liberal states are already planning, and it’s why the Biden administration wants to impose regulations that would force two-thirds of new cars sold to be electric.
Consumers, and taxpayers, be damned.
EVs Aren’t The Edsel Of The 21st Century — They’re Far Worse
Taxpayers weren’t on the hook for hundreds of billions of dollars for that ’50s flop.
issuesinsights.com