ICE or EV?

[qwerty]

I don’t keep up with the EV charging infrastructure side of things. The government is essentially requiring EVs and car manufactures are getting in line but is the government doing anything to support the charging infrastructure needed both from actual chargers and the grid?? They should also require standardization of the charging hardware (connectors etc)

Or do they just want people to buy an EV for local commuting and ICE for long trips? Most households may not even be able to buy an EV. What are apartment renters supposed to do? Keep two cars as well? Or do they just have to go ICE because their buildings won’t have chargers? Or parking for 2 cars.

It will be interesting to see how the 2035 deadline for California being all EV goes. I probably sound like I am anti EV, I am just anti-inconvenience. I don’t want to have to have multiple cars based on how far I’m driving.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Pro-EV stance aside... I also do not like the 2035 deadline (or any of these deadlines imposed by Fed/State governments).

Not everyone can go EV just like not everyone could give up their gas guzzlers.

Adoption will increase as infrastructure increases. Tesla demonstrated that it can be done with their Supercharging network but it's still not perfect.

Apartment dwellers should use public transportation.

 

[CalBears96]

Pro-EV stance aside... I also do not like the 2035 deadline (or any of these deadlines imposed by Fed/State governments).

12 years is a very long time to get things done.

Also, seems like y'all are misinformed.

"The rule establishes a year-by-year roadmap so that by 2035 100% of new cars and light trucks sold in California will be zero-emission vehicles, including plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. "

You can still drive your gas guzzlers if you want. You just can't buy one in California. Nobody is stopping you from crossing over to Nevada or Arizona to buy one.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

No, I understand the rule. But you can't force the purchase of a vehicle that needs to be supported by either at home charging or enough service stations (and charge time) for not at home charging if that's not readily available.

Making them buy out of state isn't fair either.

12 years is going to fly by. I still remember when we were talking about the 2010 New Home Collection in Woodbury and sufficient Internet access and choices are still bad.

 

[CalBears96]

Maybe that's the only way to force moretroll to leave the state he hates so much.

 

[morekaos]

Like when LL makes a housing price prediction... when morekaos makes a stock prediction... buy buy buy!

Don’t need me to tell anyone…everyone who has bought that stock has lost money…unless you were short (like me). Like taking candy from a baby

 

[morekaos]

I don’t keep up with the EV charging infrastructure side of things. The government is essentially requiring EVs and car manufactures are getting in line but is the government doing anything to support the charging infrastructure needed both from actual chargers and the grid?? They should also require standardization of the charging hardware (connectors etc)

Or do they just want people to buy an EV for local commuting and ICE for long trips? Most households may not even be able to buy an EV. What are apartment renters supposed to do? Keep two cars as well? Or do they just have to go ICE because their buildings won’t have chargers? Or parking for 2 cars.

It will be interesting to see how the 2035 deadline for California being all EV goes. I probably sound like I am anti EV, I am just anti-inconvenience. I don’t want to have to have multiple cars based on how far I’m driving.

No surprise…that sector is an even worse disaster area…..Doomed!!!

 

[iacrenter]

12 years is a very long time to get things done.

Also, seems like y'all are misinformed.

"The rule establishes a year-by-year roadmap so that by 2035 100% of new cars and light trucks sold in California will be zero-emission vehicles, including plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. "

You can still drive your gas guzzlers if you want. You just can't buy one in California. Nobody is stopping you from crossing over to Nevada or Arizona to buy one.

Are you sure DMV /CARB will allow brand new out of state ICE cars to be registered in California in 2035? This would defeat the purpose of the law.

 

[nosuchreality]

I love my Chevy Bolt. Like Qwerty though, it's a non-starter IMHO without a home charger. As are Teslas. I have no desire to sit and jockey for a Tesla Charger at Main Place mall, they're always full and all the cars belong to the staff over at CHOC and St Joseph hospitals. I have no desire to kill an hour for a 90% charge in the mall while my car charges. Even though my range is solid 250 in town, if the roadtrip is more than 150, it's a no go. Sure I could drive to Santa Barbara and find one of the many chargers, but I'm right back to stoping after two hours of driving to charge for two hours.

When my family and I want to go out for a restaurant meal, we want to go out, not plan a multi-step ordeal of finding a charging spot near the restaurant to then go eat so we can 'charge' the car while doing something else.

As a 2nd in town commuter car, it's ideal, with home charging. Everything else, it's a non-starter.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

California may hit the requirement on their own without needing the mandate:

California Hits 1.5 Million EV Milestone Two Years Ahead Of Schedule

It wasn't long ago that many people were still insisting EVs were a fad and no one wanted them. Now, it's becoming more and more clear that they're the future.

insideevs.com

In 2023, 21% of cars sold thus far in California have been EVs. No other state can claim such high numbers. In fact, 40% of all zero-emission cars sold so far in the US in 2023 have been sold in California. The country as a whole saw 5.6% of vehicle sales as electric in 2022, which is still a huge jump from the 1-2% of recent years past.

Good thing everyone is moving to Texas... we will need all that electricity.

@nosuchreality

That's why I think the mandates are a bit much. If anything, they should be mandating building out the infrastructure and updating the electric grid (maybe they are).

But things are evolving to address your concerns, with DC Fast Charging... EVs can go from 10 to 80% in less than 40 minutes. (Hyundai, Kia, MBZ and other EVs that are available today have this capability). In China, battery swapping is increasing in popularity so that becomes as convenient as current gas fill ups.

The mother of invention will mother of invention.

 

[nosuchreality]

California may hit the requirement on their own without needing the mandate:

California Hits 1.5 Million EV Milestone Two Years Ahead Of Schedule

It wasn't long ago that many people were still insisting EVs were a fad and no one wanted them. Now, it's becoming more and more clear that they're the future.

insideevs.com

Good thing everyone is moving to Texas... we will need all that electricity.

@nosuchreality

That's why I think the mandates are a bit much. If anything, they should be mandating building out the infrastructure and updating the electric grid (maybe they are).

But things are evolving to address your concerns, with DC Fast Charging... EVs can go from 10 to 80% in less than 40 minutes. (Hyundai, Kia, MBZ and other EVs that are available today have this capability). In China, battery swapping is increasing in popularity so that becomes as convenient as current gas fill ups.

The mother of invention will mother of invention.

I'm the converted, I know how good the EV car is compared to an ICE commuter. DC Fast charging is a red herring. 10% to 80% is meaningless. At 10% my battery will start shutting stuff off on the highway. At 80% I'm essentially starting at 3/4s full. My battery gauge works much like my ICE, it takes as long to start dropping from full as it does to go from full to 3/4s. Either way, 80% to 25% (Where I have about 12 miles at highway speeds to my gauge turning orange and the car automatically taking battery conservation steps) is a joke.

At highway speeds in the heat, I'll get 3 mpk if I'm lucky. with a "Fast charge" getting me to 80% in 40 minutes, I've wasted an hour or more by the time I get off the highway, find the charger, get an open charger, charge and then come back when the charge is 'done'. To get enough charge to drive on the highway for an hour.

Non-starter.

Will it improve? Sure, but now and near future, the real solution is either increased battery capacity or increased miles per kilowatt-hour at highway speeds with convenience accessories working.


I've been part of many focus groups for the manufacturers, the focus groups across cars, including Teslas, is pretty ubiquitous, fast charging, but the focus group means, fast charging like gassing the car, 15 minutes, full charge, not 40 minutes for a half tank. 15 minutes for 300 miles. Not 40 for 80-100 miles.

 

[OCtoSV]

I'm the converted, I know how good the EV car is compared to an ICE commuter. DC Fast charging is a red herring. 10% to 80% is meaningless. At 10% my battery will start shutting stuff off on the highway. At 80% I'm essentially starting at 3/4s full. My battery gauge works much like my ICE, it takes as long to start dropping from full as it does to go from full to 3/4s. Either way, 80% to 25% (Where I have about 12 miles at highway speeds to my gauge turning orange and the car automatically taking battery conservation steps) is a joke.

At highway speeds in the heat, I'll get 3 mpk if I'm lucky. with a "Fast charge" getting me to 80% in 40 minutes, I've wasted an hour or more by the time I get off the highway, find the charger, get an open charger, charge and then come back when the charge is 'done'. To get enough charge to drive on the highway for an hour.

Non-starter.

Will it improve? Sure, but now and near future, the real solution is either increased battery capacity or increased miles per kilowatt-hour at highway speeds with convenience accessories working.


I've been part of many focus groups for the manufacturers, the focus groups across cars, including Teslas, is pretty ubiquitous, fast charging, but the focus group means, fast charging like gassing the car, 15 minutes, full charge, not 40 minutes for a half tank. 15 minutes for 300 miles. Not 40 for 80-100 miles.

When I drive down to SoCal or to Napa for the day my charging stops at a Tesla Supercharger are 20 mins. Last weekend was the first time the SC was full coming back down 680 from St Helena, but luckily there was another with 10 open stalls 5 mi away in San Ramon and it just happened to share a lot with a Taco Bell Cantina! The Tesla experience is unrivaled for EVs.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@nosuchreality

That's why battery swapping could be the near-term solution but that has its own logistical issues.

 

[nosuchreality]

@nosuchreality

That's why battery swapping could be the near-term solution but that has its own logistical issues.

Current EV car battery weights are about 6.5 KG/kwh. Current EV mileage is about 4 miles/KWH.

Replaceable lithium battery tech (like golf cart batteries etc) come in at 3 Watts/pound. or 333 Pounds/kwh.

Cell Phone batteries are efficient, highly tuned and been optimized for a couple decades. They have 0.25 kwh/KG. Math is simple 100 miles = 100 KG batteries need to be moved.

Battery swap isnt going to happen without a massive improvement in battery capacity per KG. We're not swapping out dozens of batteries or even one or two batteries weighing 50 lbs a piece. If it's as complex as swapping an inkjet cartridge is a failure. If it requires service tech, it's a failure.

The model has been optimized since the end of the 2nd war.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

NIO in China seems to be having some success with battery swapping:

Most NIO Drivers Prefer Battery Swapping To Recharging

The Asian car maker bet big on battery swap stations since its inception in 2014 and says that more and more drivers of its models want to take a trip to a battery swapping station.

insideevs.com

The company’s Power Swap Stations enable vehicles to autonomously park into the station and switch for a fresh, fully-charged pack in less than five minutes. Compared to a conventional recharge from a DC fast charger, this is arguably a faster approach

EVs are like giant phones anyways.

 

[nosuchreality]

NIO in China seems to be having some success with battery swapping:

Most NIO Drivers Prefer Battery Swapping To Recharging

The Asian car maker bet big on battery swap stations since its inception in 2014 and says that more and more drivers of its models want to take a trip to a battery swapping station.

insideevs.com

EVs are like giant phones anyways.

Yea, but their owners end up wanting out. https://insideevs.com/news/583809/nio-baas-battery-swapping-opt-out/

There subscription price is interesting, it's comparable gas to battery swap for petrol costing $6/gallon and getting 20 MPG drving the 'average 11000 KM in China. The USA is 13,500 miles or nearly 22000 km. Electricity in Shanghai is also a mere 8 cents/kwh.

That swapping for range comes at a steep price tag.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Your article predates mine by about a year so maybe things have changed.

And not sure why you and qwerty are against owning different types of cars. Or... if you are like us and don't need gas/range that often, you can just rent a car for those road trips.

You could also get a PHEV.

 

[CalBears96]

Your article predates mine by about a year so maybe things have changed.

And not sure why you and qwerty are against owning different types of cars. Or... if you are like us and don't need gas/range that often, you can just rent a car for those road trips.

You could also get a PHEV.

I'm keeping my Prius Prime, just in case.

But if I were to go on a road trip, then I would just rent a car. Will not own ICE again.

 

[morekaos]

Well…anytime someone nationalizes an industry…expect a lot less of what they produce…Wait, isn’t lithium what they make EV batteries out of?...Batteries are going to get more expensive and less available…brilliant move!!! However…gas will always be available and profitable…

Chile Is Nationalizing Lithium. It May Not Go How Nervous Investors Expect.

Chile is the world’s second-largest producer of lithium, and has the largest reserves. So, when Chilean President Gabriel Boric announced his intentions,

https://www.barrons.com/articles/chile-is-nationalizing-lithium-investors-batteries-markets-95f2ca69

 

[zovall]

I’m a Tesla fan and I didn’t fully realize how competitive the new Y pricing is.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1651463381105225728