How does everyone think of Greatpark?

[akkord]

I do agree with those that state that the drought resistant landscaping is horrible. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Not sure why people say no freeway access, the Irvine blvd 133 entrance is right there, if someone can afford the MR, they can afford the toll road.

Yes..one can afford it but $4 a day adds up.  Obviously there are still a lot of people who live in PP and BP so none of these points are prohibitive but look at the backup at the left turn on Irvine and onto Sand Canyon coming from BP/PP and you can see the issue. 

Also, Great Park has added a ton of lights on Irvine, which makes the trip to and from Sand Canyon that much longer, even on weekends.  Alternative is to either go south toward Alton or through Ridge Valley...neither are great choices. 

 

[akkord]

Not sure by what you mean by undesirable, CVE has incredibly low MR compared to GP and other Irvine communities.  I don't know of apartments in there, but mostly attached/detached condos on the ice rink side of the 133.  I believe USC sold some condos at or over list there a few months ago.

CVE is far worse than PP to Beacon for elementary/MS, and high school if you wanted to compare another neighborhood in the same area.  You're going across Sand Canyon with no bridge.  Jeffrey Trail is near the 5 and Jeffrey, that's a long walk/bike on major streets if you lived at the corner of Trabuco/Ridge Valley.

1)  That is why CVE is very undesirable and mostly apartments are this point.  CVE is also closer to the freeway than PP or BP. 

2)  One of the biggest issues with CV is that a major street runs through the community.  Go near Roosevelt and Jeffrey during school time and you will see the backup is pretty crazy.

 

[akkord]

Not sure why people say no freeway access, the Irvine blvd 133 entrance is right there, if someone can afford the MR, they can afford the toll road.

Yes..one can afford it but $4 a day adds up. 

If they skip Starbucks most days they are good to go.  ;D

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Not sure by what you mean by undesirable, CVE has incredibly low MR compared to GP and other Irvine communities.  I don't know of apartments in there, but mostly attached/detached condos on the ice rink side of the 133.  I believe USC sold some condos at or over list there a few months ago.

Price is the issue.  Compare the $/square foot of CVE versus CV or PP/BP and you see the difference.  99% of real estate can be sold...it's a matter of price.

 

[id_rather_be_racing]

CVE is definitely undesirable from a school perspective.  But being very undesirable?  Maybe for your personal wants, but the initial pace of sales and resales (for at least the detached condos) say otherwise. 

 

[akkord]

Also, Great Park has added a ton of lights on Irvine, which makes the trip to and from Sand Canyon that much longer, even on weekends.  Alternative is to either go south toward Alton or through Ridge Valley...neither are great choices.

I don't think this is GP specific issue, this is an Irvine issue, traffic sucks in ALL of Irvine compared to 10-15 years ago.  Even 5 years ago it wasn't as bad.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

CVE is definitely undesirable from a school perspective.  But being very undesirable?  Maybe for your personal wants, but the initial pace of sales and resales (for at least the detached condos) say otherwise.

Everything is relative but objective standards show that CVE is less desirable, i.e. pricing, as compared to CV, PP, BP, Woodbury, Stonegate, and Eastwood. 

Pace of sale is not the best gauge of desirability...price sold is. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Also, Great Park has added a ton of lights on Irvine, which makes the trip to and from Sand Canyon that much longer, even on weekends.  Alternative is to either go south toward Alton or through Ridge Valley...neither are great choices.

I don't think this is GP specific issue, this is an Irvine issue, traffic sucks in ALL of Irvine compared to 10-15 years ago.  Even 5 years ago it wasn't as bad.

Agreed so every light and left turn matters.

 

[akkord]

Also, Great Park has added a ton of lights on Irvine, which makes the trip to and from Sand Canyon that much longer, even on weekends.  Alternative is to either go south toward Alton or through Ridge Valley...neither are great choices.

I don't think this is GP specific issue, this is an Irvine issue, traffic sucks in ALL of Irvine compared to 10-15 years ago.  Even 5 years ago it wasn't as bad.

Agreed so every light and left turn matters.

So jump on the toll road, I'm sure those in OH have the same issue with Culver/Jeffrey/Portola so they jump on the toll road too...so its an Irvine issue, doesn't matter where you live in Irvine, you'll hit traffic and if you live too close to the freeway you'll have health problems if you want to avoid the lights.  So in a sense the toll road at Irvine blvd is a plus for GP compared to those who don't have that option. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

So jump on the toll road, I'm sure those in OH have the same issue with Culver/Jeffrey/Portola so they jump on the toll road too...so its an Irvine issue, doesn't matter where you live in Irvine, you'll hit traffic and if you live too close to the freeway you'll have health problems if you want to avoid the lights.  So in a sense the toll road at Irvine blvd is a plus for GP compared to those who don't have that option.

Again...everything is relative and everyone has to prioritize their needs versus wants.  Plenty of people live at PP and BP so none of the issues raised is prohibitive but things to consider. 

Yes, having a toll road is a benefit versus not having access to one but it's not nearly the benefit as it may seem.  Arguably, close access to a toll road also means that you are relatively close to one in proximately, which is a turn off to some. 

PP and BP usually has large lots and really good amenities so if those things are important to you, PP and BP are more desirable than other places in Irvine (i.e. Stonegate or Woodbury). 

All the points you raised could be said for PS and there is no dispute that PS is not nearly as desirable as Stonegate, Woodbury, or Eastwood. 

Comparing the prices and price/sq. ft...GP is not as desirable as Stonegate, Eastwood, or CV.  IMO, PP > PS and PS = BP. 

I cannot even begin to comment on Altair but if I had $2-3 million to use...that is not the place I would go.

As for Orchard Hills, it has elevation and seclusion...the most expensive parts of it is gated and have great views.  That makes it unique. 

 

[AW]

hmm, my counter to that (playing devils advocate) is that laguna altura and hidden canyon both don't have elementary within their neighborhood and have to cross a freeway to get to one...
orchard hills have northwood high (i know the gated side is zoned to beckman, but the physical northwood high school is right there), and the only way out is portola...

i don't live in GP, but i don't see it being all that bad

Hidden Canyon/LA is much more like Altair:  Gated exclusive community with large lots and lower density.  It makes sense that they do not have a community school.

Again, PP was sold as a family community for multigenerational families.  That is why I said Altair makes more sense where PP is.  PP is also the only place in Great Park that is not affected by the bad soil issue because it was where the residential dorms were on the base and thus no dumping issues.

Orchard Hill is not connected to Northwood High at all and it has multiple exits.  Yes, they all feed into Portola but it is not directly across the street.  Also, if you actually live near either Culver/Portola, it is incredibly crowded and annoying in the morning (including those 60 second crosswalks and no right turn on red).

I would say that's true for HC but not LA, feels crowded to me and only a couple of lots are large, otherwise it's the typical sardine packed rows

Regarding the soil, I think you got that wrong, PP I believe used to be strawberry fields, Altair is where the barracks used to be, I'm 99% positive, I drove there quite a bit 15-20 years ago (back when sand canyon was a 2 lane road) and remember the chernobyl like scene with ghostly looking kiddie playgrounds right where altair is.  I don't think there's dumping issues there either.  GP is > 20 acres, and only a small portion was used for dumping (probably near the hangars).  IIRC irwd had a map of where the toxic plume was, it's south, near the freeway, away from housing.  Also it's in woodbridge but not alot of hoopla around that...

 

[Cornflakes]

I figure that there is so much GP bashing going on the TI, mostly from people who don't even live in GP and have no skin in the game...just throwing bs around. Let's put some actual numbers:

A = home in Eastwood 3 bd2.5 ba 1,753 Square Feet
B = home in GP 4 Beds?4 Baths?2,400 Sq Ft

Zestimates for both homes are comparable as of today.

Three years of property tax bill for home A (recent to past):
12219
12032
11481

Three years of property tax bill for home B (recent to past):
17538
17189
16489

~$5300 a year in increased annual cost in GP. However one wants to justify, or not...is up to them
-one more bedroom and extra sqft
-better amenities in GP
-anything else...


wrt access to freeways...which community along the Irvine blvd has significantly better access to freeways than the others? I-5 is equal distant to PP, Stonegate, Eastwood and slightly less for GP, Woodbury. Or else, they all use 133.

access to businesses and former super fund site are fair points and individual discretion applies as to how sensitive one is to those issues

 

[Irvinecommuter]

hmm, my counter to that (playing devils advocate) is that laguna altura and hidden canyon both don't have elementary within their neighborhood and have to cross a freeway to get to one...
orchard hills have northwood high (i know the gated side is zoned to beckman, but the physical northwood high school is right there), and the only way out is portola...

i don't live in GP, but i don't see it being all that bad

Hidden Canyon/LA is much more like Altair:  Gated exclusive community with large lots and lower density.  It makes sense that they do not have a community school.

Again, PP was sold as a family community for multigenerational families.  That is why I said Altair makes more sense where PP is.  PP is also the only place in Great Park that is not affected by the bad soil issue because it was where the residential dorms were on the base and thus no dumping issues.

Orchard Hill is not connected to Northwood High at all and it has multiple exits.  Yes, they all feed into Portola but it is not directly across the street.  Also, if you actually live near either Culver/Portola, it is incredibly crowded and annoying in the morning (including those 60 second crosswalks and no right turn on red).

I would say that's true for HC but not LA, feels crowded to me and only a couple of lots are large, otherwise it's the typical sardine packed rows

Regarding the soil, I think you got that wrong, PP I believe used to be strawberry fields, Altair is where the barracks used to be, I'm 99% positive, I drove there quite a bit 15-20 years ago (back when sand canyon was a 2 lane road) and remember the chernobyl like scene with ghostly looking kiddie playgrounds right where altair is.  I don't think there's dumping issues there either.  GP is > 20 acres, and only a small portion was used for dumping (probably near the hangars).  IIRC irwd had a map of where it was, it's south, near the freeway, away from housing.  Also it's in woodbridge but not alot of hoopla around that...

Thanks for the clarification.  HC is definitely more exclusive and has bigger lots than LA. 

Looking back at some old TI thread...people thought it may have been where the school was but then again, planes taking off in close proximately is probably not that great.

A military base has dumping pretty much everywhere.  It is not subject to federal or state environmental regulations.  Best map I could find was this:

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Where is Belly? He loves these GP vs TIC wars.

 

[Bullsback]

It has also made some curious decisions.  For example, no schools within Pavilion Park, which reduces the mello roos but then hurts the resale because any one living there would have to send their kids to school in Beacon Park.  Also, putting Altair across the street from the HS and relatively close to the prison is just an odd choice.  Altair should be where PP is. 

The amenities are quite nice but mello roos and HOA fees are also quite high.

Not sure what you mean about the school, pavilion park sucks because of no schools nearby.  Altair sucks because it?s next to a school?

I agree about the MR being high as a big deterrent.

High schools are very different from elementary schools.  Almost of the Irvine Company communities have a neighborhood elementary school that provides easy access to parents and for kids (and their guardians) to bike/walk home.  High school students are generally dropped off by parents or drive themselves...that means a lot of traffic in the morning and after school. 

Elementary schools are also largely quiet while high schools have events and sports events throughout the week/year.

Altair also caters to a very different crowd than PP.  PP was sold as to multi-generational families while Altair is gated and priced to an exclusive group of buyers ($2-3 million homes).  Altair is likely to have fewer families with kids who would go to public schools while PP was specifically marketed to those with kids.  If I lived in PP, I would not have my kids walk a mile to and from school every day...thus I would have to drive them across to BP in the morning, wait in the drop off line, and then navigate my way to the freeway either via Irvine Blvd or Bryan.  You may not think it to be an issue, but as a parent who rushed to get my kids to school in the morning, I can tell you that it is.

Altair on the other hand will be faced with a ton of traffic in the morning (and various other times) trying to go to and out of Portola HS.  Since the only way to get out of Altair is Irvine Blvd...it would be a giant headache.  Not something I want to deal with after paying $2-3 million for my house.

hmm, my counter to that (playing devils advocate) is that laguna altura and hidden canyon both don't have elementary within their neighborhood and have to cross a freeway to get to one...
orchard hills have northwood high (i know the gated side is zoned to beckman, but the physical northwood high school is right there), and the only way out is portola...

i don't live in GP, but i don't see it being all that bad

The other counter I would have to that is - pre covid - a ton of people were going from school to work anyway so they likely were driving even if it were a neighborhood school. There are certainly some that walk - but vast majority, whether the school is located in your neighborhood or not (especially elementary age) are being dropped off.  I still say the convenience is huge for having an elementary school within walking distance (same for middle school) and agree with the other posters point that high school becomes less key, but I'd still argue it is important/helpful. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I figure that there is so much GP bashing going on the TI, mostly from people who don't even live in GP and have no skin in the game...just throwing bs around. Let's put some actual numbers:

A = home in Eastwood 3 bd2.5 ba 1,753 Square Feet
B = home in GP 4 Beds?4 Baths?2,400 Sq Ft

Zestimates for both homes are comparable as of today.

Three years of property tax bill for home A (recent to past):
12219
12032
11481

Three years of property tax bill for home B (recent to past):
17538
17189
16489

~$5300 a year in increased annual cost in GP. However one wants to justify, or not...is up to them
-one more bedroom and extra sqft
-better amenities in GP
-anything else...


wrt access to freeways...which community along the Irvine blvd has significantly better access to freeways than the others? I-5 is equal distant to PP, Stonegate, Eastwood and slightly less for GP, Woodbury. Or else, they all use 133.

access to businesses and former super fund site are fair points and individual discretion applies as to how sensitive one is to those issues

Which part is BS?  The taxes are higher for a lower-valued property. 

Everyone already said that the amenities are better in GP but HOA is higher ($215 in BP versus $120 in SG). 

Access to freeway and rest of Irvine are not the same.  I had this argument before regarding PS...it is just super annoying to live in PS and try to access the freeway or rest of Irvine.  Stonegate, Woodbury, and CV are all more accessible because one can go on Sand Canyon or Jeffrey.  EW has access to Jeffery but not Yale.  Woodbury has access to Bryan and Trabuco while CV has Roosevelt and Trabuco.

BP and PP are basically stuck with Sand Canyon, which requires a left turn or cutting through Ridge Valley.

It is not bashing...it is simply stating pros and cons.  Everyone has different wish lists and things that they do not care as much about.  But again, price is the ultimate objective standard.

 

[Bullsback]

Not sure why people say no freeway access, the Irvine blvd 133 entrance is right there, if someone can afford the MR, they can afford the toll road.

If it had perfect freeway access - it would get poo pooed because it is too close to the freeway.  OH / Turtle Rock and a lot of the other areas considered high end all are far less freeway convenient than Great Park. It is kind of why I say - if you ignore location, I think GP is one of the best done neighborhoods of all the recent developments. Its unique, has nice lots, broad variety of homes and looks way less cookie cutter than everything else. But maybe I'm in the minority on that and everyone else prefers every neighborhood to look the exact same.  It also has some homes that are horrifically ugly.

The tax rate is a known bad guy and than the location is what it is - has pro's and con's (if you think of the location in general) and than there is fact that it was built on a marine base which to me is its own very unique data point. If it weren't for being on a marine base - I don't know that anyone would say the location is any worse than most every else in Irvine that is east of the 5 fwy (sans Orchard Hills that is in the hills). 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Not sure why people say no freeway access, the Irvine blvd 133 entrance is right there, if someone can afford the MR, they can afford the toll road.

If it had perfect freeway access - it would get poo pooed because it is too close to the freeway.  OH / Turtle Rock and a lot of the other areas considered high end all are far less freeway convenient than Great Park. It is kind of why I say - if you ignore location, I think GP is one of the best done neighborhoods of all the recent developments. Its unique, has nice lots, broad variety of homes and looks way less cookie cutter than everything else. But maybe I'm in the minority on that and everyone else prefers every neighborhood to look the exact same.  It also has some homes that are horrifically ugly.

The tax rate is a known bad guy and than the location is what it is - has pro's and con's (if you think of the location in general) and than there is fact that it was built on a marine base which to me is its own very unique data point. If it weren't for being on a marine base - I don't know that anyone would say the location is any worse than most every else in Irvine that is east of the 5 fwy (sans Orchard Hills that is in the hills).

It would still be less accessible than the other communities.  Whether freeway access is more desirable than being away from the freeway is up to the individual but PP/BP/GP has freeway accessibility issues.  We are just talking about factors...both pros and cons. 

GP is not Turtle Rock or Shady Canyon...not even close.  OH has elevation and thus the distance is a feature.  GP is just less accessible because a military base was not meant to be accessible.  On contrary, a military base is meant to have limited access points. 

Look at the District...it is still fairly hard to get into and out of but much better since they opened up Tustin Ranch Road.  When it first opened, it was a nightmare to get in and out of that place.

It is my understanding that there were supposed to be alternative access points to and out of GP including another freeway on/offramp but that has not come to pass. 

Look and feel of the neighbor are definitely selling points but I see that a lot more for PP than BP.  PP actually sold itself on the open feel and distinctive neighborhood but most of it is still cookie cutter (just less crowded).  BP looks ugly to me especially some of the 3 story buildings.  It is also filled with just residential so there is no "break" to me. 

Personally, I think lower density is much better selling point than looks of neighborhood (considering all of these communities are tract homes).  Woodbury now feels super cramped as compared to some of the other community.

 

[Cornflakes]

Not sure why people say no freeway access, the Irvine blvd 133 entrance is right there, if someone can afford the MR, they can afford the toll road.

Yes..one can afford it but $4 a day adds up.  Obviously there are still a lot of people who live in PP and BP so none of these points are prohibitive but look at the backup at the left turn on Irvine and onto Sand Canyon coming from BP/PP and you can see the issue. 

Also, Great Park has added a ton of lights on Irvine, which makes the trip to and from Sand Canyon that much longer, even on weekends.  Alternative is to either go south toward Alton or through Ridge Valley...neither are great choices.

I feel your pain.