Great Park Development
- Thread starter adventurous
- Start date
irvinehomeshopper
Well-known member
When Olmstead designed Central Park it was a competition among several designers. Olmstead was not even a landscape architect but he was a visionary. He won the competition because he isolated the cross town roads from cutting the park into 4 separate pieces. Back then this project study and promotion cost the city $22. In today's money about $2500. $ 200m for feasibility studies and promotion is just irresponsible. That orange balloon is just one very expensive icon.
Pedego Irvine
New member
I'm really frustrated by the time and money we continue to waste (my opinion) on what should otherwise be an amazing project. Numerous decisions (right, wrong or indifferent) and circumstances - some completely out of our control - led us to the position we're in today. However, at this point, I'd love for all of us - including our city leaders - to bust off the rear-view mirror and focus on what's ahead of us, not behind.
My opinion relative to this is NOT based on politics, rather, it's based on what I believe is the right thing for our city.
My opinion relative to this is NOT based on politics, rather, it's based on what I believe is the right thing for our city.
iacrenter
Well-known member
IMO, in our haste to build the GP we should not forget the process. The current City leaders need to cleanup the mess left behind by Agran. I'm hopeful the time/money spent on auditing will pay dividends in the years ahead. If anything, it serves as a warning to those who abuse the public trust.
Pedego Irvine said:
Pedego Irvine
New member
eyephone said:
I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't be held responsible for their actions. I guess what I am saying is that the state of the Great Park (Great Sporting Complex, is what I like to refer to it as) is dynamic, certainly well beyond decisions and actions of one person.
I haven't been following too closely the last two years, but what has this two-year audit and additional $$$ given us? Is this time and money well spent? I don't mean to sound sarcastic; please know that I'm not. This is an honest question.
Pedego Irvine
New member
iacrenter said:
County prosecutor...city lawyers.....sounds like more time and a lot more money, hence my frustration.
From the outside looking in - from my personal perspective - I must say it's quite easy to conclude that the emphasis surrounding the OCGP is more about politics and less about public interest. I accept that there are many opinions relative to this subject and I also acknowledge that my personal perception could be flat-out misguided. However, I still believe that snapping off the rear-view mirror and focusing on what's in front of us rather that what's behind will have the most beneficial impact.
iacrenter
Well-known member
I read a nice editorial in the OC Weekly today:
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2015/04/beth_krom.php
=========================================
Tainted Irvine Democrats Hope Sacramento Pals Will Rescue Them In Great Park Scandal
By R. Scott Moxley
Published Tue., Apr. 21 2015 at 11:15 AM
Luke McGarry / OC Weekly
Ever want to see politicians simultaneously argue two sides of one stance--and pretend they are consistent? Go to Irvine and see Beth Krom and Larry Agran in action. More than a year ago, Krom and Agran devised a two-pronged communications strategy to undermine the independent audit of how their political machine spent in excess of $200 million without building a single, major, promised feature at the Orange County Great Park.
The first prong involved trying to rile up the public by describing the audit as a waste of taxpayer funds, which was never a concern when their machine ran the proposed park and handed out $165,000 a month in no bid, no benchmark contracts to their own political consultants. Booted from power by 2012 voters, the pair suddenly discovered the notion of frugality.
Once one of California's largest and most anticipated public works projects, the Great Park idea under the leadership of Krom and Agran devolved into a cesspool of incompetence, mismanagement and cronyism you'd expect from two local politicians, one a housewife and the other a lawyer who has never held a private sector job, pretending they possessed the expertise to create a $1.6 billion, "world class" park.
As discussed in this publication for months, the $1.3 million audit--which would have cost less if Agran and his allies hadn't played stonewall games during the process--provides a valuable history that puts the lie to their insistence they achieved victory on a project that remains incomplete to this day.
The adventures in LarryLand don't end there. Having established their stance that the audit of Great Park spending was a horrible fiscal burden on the public, the duo has spent recent months begging their Democratic Party allies in the state legislature to . . . drum roll, please . . . launch a new taxpayer funded audit of the city's audit. Penny-pinching is apparently no longer the ranking talking point.
On April 22, Assemblyman Mike Gipson (D-Carson) is expected to have his Joint Legislative Audit Committee ponder auditing the audit. Krom and Agran crave the move in hopes of winning a partisan report that will aid them re-take control of Irvine and the park project's kitty in the 2016 elections. Lefty bloggers are giddy with the prospect. This scenario could get really exciting if the Republican-controlled U.S. Congress initiates a federal audit of the state audit of the city audit.
The second Krom-Agran attack prong is even more laughable. In an April 19 guest column in the OC Register, for example, Krom ignored her alliance's park construction failures and massive spending on well-connected, loafer-wearing consultants. She posited they should get credit for dreaming "big."
Sorry, but city council members don't get applause for an "award-winning master plan" that cost taxpayers more than $40 million, a design worthless the moment it hit paper because the architect pretended he was working for Marie Antoinette and had a bottomless treasury to plunder. In a portion of the park that is as flat as a West Texas prairie, they thought it was a good idea to build a massive man-made canyon. Get it? They wanted the Great Park in heavily residential, suburban Irvine to have a Grand Canyon.
Krom is nevertheless sticking to her script, a lowbrow comedy.
"I'm proud of what was accomplished during the years when vision, innovation and balanced planning defined our city," she wrote in her editorial. "We built the park planning process around public engagement, cultural and recreational experiences and celebrating Orange County's agricultural and military heritage."
Ahhh, if it were only true. During the Krom-Agran years running the city, journalists' digging into park spending was treated like affronts to national security operations. Hard to believe?
Consider this fact: In 2008, Krom, Agran and their then-third ally, Sukhee Kang, refused to show their two elected, Republican colleagues, Christina Shea and Steven Choi, resumes of job applicants seeking to become chief executive officer of the Great Park. Incredibly, Shea and Choi had to sue in Orange County Superior Court. Taxpayers got to pay the legal bills for the Krom-Agran-Kang losing antics. In recent months, an unrepentant Krom has defended that secrecy as a legitimate exercise of her then-council majority's power. Flip flopping on her flip flop, Krom's Reg editorial lambasted the present council majority for its lack of transparency and "unchecked authority."
But the park investigation by Aleshire & Wynder's Anthony Taylor is the most substantive contribution to government transparency in the city's 43 years of existence. Taylor, whose accomplishments include tracing missing public funds in the City of Bell scandal, professionally documented the alarming Great Park mess that should be a cautionary tale for future municipal projects throughout the nation. (See: "Final Audit Report Shows Larry Agran's Great Park Plan Was A Debacle From The Outset," March 24, 2015.) Though unnecessary, a state legislature audit, if truly fair, would come to the same conclusion.
Follow OC Weekly on Twitter @ocweekly or on Facebook!
Email: rscottmoxley@ocweekly.com. Twitter: @RScottMoxley.
==========================================
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2015/04/beth_krom.php
=========================================
Tainted Irvine Democrats Hope Sacramento Pals Will Rescue Them In Great Park Scandal
By R. Scott Moxley
Published Tue., Apr. 21 2015 at 11:15 AM
Luke McGarry / OC Weekly
Ever want to see politicians simultaneously argue two sides of one stance--and pretend they are consistent? Go to Irvine and see Beth Krom and Larry Agran in action. More than a year ago, Krom and Agran devised a two-pronged communications strategy to undermine the independent audit of how their political machine spent in excess of $200 million without building a single, major, promised feature at the Orange County Great Park.
The first prong involved trying to rile up the public by describing the audit as a waste of taxpayer funds, which was never a concern when their machine ran the proposed park and handed out $165,000 a month in no bid, no benchmark contracts to their own political consultants. Booted from power by 2012 voters, the pair suddenly discovered the notion of frugality.
Once one of California's largest and most anticipated public works projects, the Great Park idea under the leadership of Krom and Agran devolved into a cesspool of incompetence, mismanagement and cronyism you'd expect from two local politicians, one a housewife and the other a lawyer who has never held a private sector job, pretending they possessed the expertise to create a $1.6 billion, "world class" park.
As discussed in this publication for months, the $1.3 million audit--which would have cost less if Agran and his allies hadn't played stonewall games during the process--provides a valuable history that puts the lie to their insistence they achieved victory on a project that remains incomplete to this day.
The adventures in LarryLand don't end there. Having established their stance that the audit of Great Park spending was a horrible fiscal burden on the public, the duo has spent recent months begging their Democratic Party allies in the state legislature to . . . drum roll, please . . . launch a new taxpayer funded audit of the city's audit. Penny-pinching is apparently no longer the ranking talking point.
On April 22, Assemblyman Mike Gipson (D-Carson) is expected to have his Joint Legislative Audit Committee ponder auditing the audit. Krom and Agran crave the move in hopes of winning a partisan report that will aid them re-take control of Irvine and the park project's kitty in the 2016 elections. Lefty bloggers are giddy with the prospect. This scenario could get really exciting if the Republican-controlled U.S. Congress initiates a federal audit of the state audit of the city audit.
The second Krom-Agran attack prong is even more laughable. In an April 19 guest column in the OC Register, for example, Krom ignored her alliance's park construction failures and massive spending on well-connected, loafer-wearing consultants. She posited they should get credit for dreaming "big."
Sorry, but city council members don't get applause for an "award-winning master plan" that cost taxpayers more than $40 million, a design worthless the moment it hit paper because the architect pretended he was working for Marie Antoinette and had a bottomless treasury to plunder. In a portion of the park that is as flat as a West Texas prairie, they thought it was a good idea to build a massive man-made canyon. Get it? They wanted the Great Park in heavily residential, suburban Irvine to have a Grand Canyon.
Krom is nevertheless sticking to her script, a lowbrow comedy.
"I'm proud of what was accomplished during the years when vision, innovation and balanced planning defined our city," she wrote in her editorial. "We built the park planning process around public engagement, cultural and recreational experiences and celebrating Orange County's agricultural and military heritage."
Ahhh, if it were only true. During the Krom-Agran years running the city, journalists' digging into park spending was treated like affronts to national security operations. Hard to believe?
Consider this fact: In 2008, Krom, Agran and their then-third ally, Sukhee Kang, refused to show their two elected, Republican colleagues, Christina Shea and Steven Choi, resumes of job applicants seeking to become chief executive officer of the Great Park. Incredibly, Shea and Choi had to sue in Orange County Superior Court. Taxpayers got to pay the legal bills for the Krom-Agran-Kang losing antics. In recent months, an unrepentant Krom has defended that secrecy as a legitimate exercise of her then-council majority's power. Flip flopping on her flip flop, Krom's Reg editorial lambasted the present council majority for its lack of transparency and "unchecked authority."
But the park investigation by Aleshire & Wynder's Anthony Taylor is the most substantive contribution to government transparency in the city's 43 years of existence. Taylor, whose accomplishments include tracing missing public funds in the City of Bell scandal, professionally documented the alarming Great Park mess that should be a cautionary tale for future municipal projects throughout the nation. (See: "Final Audit Report Shows Larry Agran's Great Park Plan Was A Debacle From The Outset," March 24, 2015.) Though unnecessary, a state legislature audit, if truly fair, would come to the same conclusion.
Follow OC Weekly on Twitter @ocweekly or on Facebook!
Email: rscottmoxley@ocweekly.com. Twitter: @RScottMoxley.
==========================================
Joe Irvine
New member
Wow, could the views be any more drastically different? Hopefully, at some point, the two sides will check their emotion and egos at the door and then - perhaps - we'll be able to shift from "destructive" to "productive".
http://www.irvinecommunitynewsandviews.org/irvine-2/great-park-audit-a-travesty/?utm_source=Irvine+Community+Poll&utm_campaign=35bd5a2cba-ICNV_20141222_Resend_NonOpeners12_28_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_88044eb7cd-35bd5a2cba-152877913
http://www.irvinecommunitynewsandviews.org/irvine-2/great-park-audit-a-travesty/?utm_source=Irvine+Community+Poll&utm_campaign=35bd5a2cba-ICNV_20141222_Resend_NonOpeners12_28_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_88044eb7cd-35bd5a2cba-152877913
paperboyNC
New member
Joe Irvine said:
The voters are to blame for voting for the wasteful audit to audit the wasteful spending.
Joe Irvine
New member
paperboyNC said:
Coming soon: Irvine voters and City Council approve an audit of the audit of the audit.
"We don't have time to build parks. Our focus is on building conspiracy, dividing our city/City Council and pointing fingers", claims Mayor Pro Tem, Jeff Lalloway.
"Build a park? Why, that's what Five Points is for. And the additional 4600 homes will really boost sales in my day job", says Councilwoman and Residential real estate agent, Christina Shea.
"We must go have lot this for it and fine community", boasts Irvine Mayor, Stephen Choi.
Sorry, just having a little fun. I like all these guys on a personal level, I'm just worn-out from all the political bologna saturating our city. And yes, I find Stephen Choi to be just about the worst public speaker ever. lol
J
jmoney74
Guest
Joe Irvine said:
He told me it's just a way of celebrating Star Wars by speaking like Yoda.
J
jmoney74
Guest
eyephone said:
you guys should have heard me speak during the HOA elections.. I nailed it.