Great Park Development

test said:
But the city has no more money to waste. 
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This is exactly what the council is trying to do  - to waste money, resources and land on the spot. Once 5P gets the council approval, there will be no chance to built a park that might benefit the people... And a good portion of the part will become another residential community. It's a great deal for 5P, but terrible for Irvine
 
The California Court Company said:
what's worse?

$200 million to Larry Agran's friends and family

or

taking a bribe from 5 point by Shea, Lalloway and Choi to build more houses

I'd rather see a golf course plus soccer fields, rather than keep enriching the Agran Gang.
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Private golf course and useless soccer fields in exchange for the park land is a terrible idea for Irvine residents. They need neither of those.
 
test said:
adventurous said:
I fail to see how two dozens soccer fields help the public park. Unless the city of Irvine, all of a sudden will launch the Irvine World Soccer Cup. Seriously... The value of twenty soccer fields is even more questionable than the private golf club. I really doubt THAT can be sold as a long-promised park during the re-election. One or two visits to the new "park" would be enough for an average resident to realize how much money the City Council wasted.... again.
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Soccer fields are a revenue source.  How does that benefit the public?  It doesn't.  You are right about that.

But the city has no more money to waste.  What you are seeing now is the consequence of the previous spendthrift city council.
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I guess I'm the contrarian.  I think adding more well maintained soccer fields is a great idea.  There are a ton of kids that play soccer (mine included) in Irvine, and some of the fields are atrocious.  Having a central location where kids can practice and play games would be fantastic.  Same thing goes for baseball/softball field.  Investing in youth sports is not a waste of money IMHO.
 
Do you really need 20+ soccer fields to practice? How about a park where ALL the kids and families can play, rest, etc? Don't you think we have enough ball fields in Irvine already, so adding 20 more is possibly a land and money waste?

How about 1000 Ping-Pong tables to practice? Or 10000 hoops? Why not? Kids play hoops as you know.

 
and you guys know what 20+ soccer fields will bring - thats right - mexicans!!!!!!

i guess that makes sense considering all the low income housing that needs to be built. i commend the city of irvine for meeting my people's needs.
 
adventurous said:
Do you really need 20+ soccer fields to practice? How about a park where ALL the kids and families can play, rest, etc? Don't you think we have enough ball fields in Irvine already, so adding 20 more is possibly a land and money waste?

How about 1000 Ping-Pong tables to practice? Or 10000 hoops? Why not? Kids play hoops as you know.
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Where are you getting 20+ soccer fields.  Every document I've read states "dozens of ball fields, tennis courts, sand volleyball, basketball courts", and yes, even table tennis.  It is supposed to be a multi-sports complex, not a soccer academy.  I agree the golf course is superfluous and hope they get rid of that aspect, but for me, the golf course isn't a deal breaker, although I'd rather have the deep winding canyon that Smith originally envisioned.  Also, Irvine doesn't have enough well maintained ball fields already, otherwise this plan wouldn't have it's supporters.
 
So, Irvine has enough soccer fields, but those are poorly maintained. The solution 5P provided (and you supported) is to .... right ... build more fields.  Is there some logic in there that I am missing? Why doesn't the city maintain the existing fields first, instead of turning the family park into sports grounds? I am not against the idea of having sports fields GP. However, I don't want the GP become one big sport field, which 5P will be happy to do in exchange of the land for 5K extra houses.
And yes, the private golf club is a cherry on top of hypocrisy of the corrupt city council members.
In my opinion, the 5P offer must be rejected and re-discussed. If they want the land, they build the park, not the private sports arena.


I watched the live broadcast and later news on the city council meeting. The lady who actively supported the Great Soccer Fields Park was .... right .... from Rancho Santa Margarita. Sweet.
 
OP, still waiting for a link to official documents for "20+ soccer fields".

Big plus +1 for Tyler also regarding the park for all Orange County residents.  Even if Irvine did have enough sports fields, which they don't, the sports complex is for everyone in the county.  Don't be so city centric.
 
Tyler Durden said:
You do realize the park is called the "OC" great park?  Not the Irvine park.


It is meant to benefit all the residents of the county whether you or anyone else in Irvine wants them there or not.
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If Orange County paid a dime for it, that would be a total different conversation. However, it's going to be built at the expense of the city and the new homeowners.  I don't care what it's called. I do care who writes the check
 
OCgasman said:
OP, still waiting for a link to official documents for "20+ soccer fields".

Big plus +1 for Tyler also regarding the park for all Orange County residents.  Even if Irvine did have enough sports fields, which they don't, the sports complex is for everyone in the county.  Don't be so city centric.
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Here is the closest, I can pull at the momenthttp://www.ocregister.com/articles/park-538448-city-irvine.html

This offer will build 688 acres of the park, with such features as: 17 soccer fields and a soccer stadium, seven baseball fields and six softball fields, 25 tennis courts and a tennis stadium, 11 sand volleyball courts and a volleyball stadium, an 18-hole championship golf course, several multiuse sports fields and a variety other recreational uses including biking, hiking and more. This is in return for granting FivePoints the ability to build an additional 4,606 homes


So, 17 dedicated soccer fields + soccer stadium, that comes to 18. Originally it was two dozen, but they converted a few soccer fields into softball ones.
 
Tyler Durden said:
really?  doesn't your property tax bill go to the orange county dept of revenue?

http://tax.ocgov.com/tcweb/search_page.asp


Let me know when you start paying property taxes for Irvine and you'll have a leg to stand on.


Irvine was given $200M, which has bought what exactly?  I guess you are territorial about your orange balloon ride? 


Whatever will be built from here out, will be built by the builder in the current proposal, or not built at all.  It will be paid for by the builder and the builder wants to be paid back by assessing a tax on the residents.


if you are so concerned about it, you should attend the city meetings and voice your desire for a better deal.
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It's the city land with a some county spots. The city can exchange a part of this land  for much better park infrastructure. Instead, 5P comes up with the cheap and useless solution, which only benefits them, since they market the GP as their new community recreational area.  If they are so adamant on the golf course, why don't they build it on their land?
One more time, OC doesn't pay a dime in the deal. It's up to Irvine City Council. And those council member should really think twice about the next re-election.
 
OCgasman said:
OP, still waiting for a link to official documents for "20+ soccer fields".

Big plus +1 for Tyler also regarding the park for all Orange County residents.  Even if Irvine did have enough sports fields, which they don't, the sports complex is for everyone in the county.  Don't be so city centric.
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So, how much is county going to put in the project exactly?
Why don't you build a ball field on your property. Demolish the house, and build a basketball court for the entire Orange County. Don't be so self-centric.
 
OCgasman said:
Even if Irvine did have enough sports fields, which they don't, the sports complex is for everyone in the county. 
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How many fields are you short on, exactly? Let me count

- 17 soccer fields +  soccer stadium,
- 7  baseball fields
- 6  softball fields,
- 25 tennis courts + tennis stadium,
- 11 sand volleyball courts + volleyball stadium,
- 18-hole championship golf course,
- several (how many, exactly?) multiuse sports fields

Total: 68 fields + several multiuse... + 4th golf course... + all the existing fields in Irvine.
Hell, it can well cover the needs of the city of Los Angeles.
Irvine can host the next World Soccer Cup, Beach Volley Championship. Do you know how many tennis courts in Wimbledon? I'll tell you.... 30.... So, the GP will be only five courts short to become the biggest tennis playground. Do you expect any world class tennis players here? Why would you like to waste money on this project then?

I am not opposing to building a few fields that we need. However, I don't want GP to become one big Useless Sports Arena of the Universe, that can host the World Soccer Cup, the World Volley Championship, Big Golf Tournament and another Wimbledon simultaneously. I definitely prefer something that local residents will have a better value of.
 
adventurous said:
OCgasman said:
Even if Irvine did have enough sports fields, which they don't, the sports complex is for everyone in the county. 
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How many fields are you short on, exactly? Let me count

- 17 soccer fields +  soccer stadium,
- 7  baseball fields
- 6  softball fields,
- 25 tennis courts + tennis stadium,
- 11 sand volleyball courts + volleyball stadium,
- 18-hole championship golf course,
- several (how many, exactly?) multiuse sports fields

Total: 68 fields + several multiuse... + 4th golf course... + all the existing fields in Irvine.
Hell, it can well cover the needs of the city of Los Angeles.
Irvine can host the next World Soccer Cup, Beach Volley Championship. Do you know how many tennis courts in Wimbledon? I'll tell you.... 30.... So, the GP will be only five courts short to become the biggest tennis playground. Do you expect any world class tennis players here? Why would you like to waste money on this project then?

I am not opposing to building a few fields that we need. However, I don't want GP to become one big Useless Sports Arena of the Universe, that can host the World Soccer Cup, the World Volley Championship, Big Golf Tournament and another Wimbledon simultaneously. I definitely prefer something that local residents will have a better value of.
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Again, as stated above, it's called ORANGE COUNTY Great Park.  It's for everyone in the county to use.  Orange County is a big area.  The plan envisioned by Ken Smith will never come to fruition because of lack of funding.  Private money is the only way to build anything in the great park.  This is undoubtedly already a done deal unless some other builder comes up with a better plan. 

You sound defensive and proclaiming "Why don't you build a ball field on your property" adds nothing to this dialogue.
 
OCgasman said:
Again, as stated above, it's called ORANGE COUNTY Great Park. 
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Let's call it Irvine Great Park. Like I said, I don't care what it's called. I only care who pays for it.

OCgasman said:
It's for everyone in the county to use.  Orange County is a big area.
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Agreed. But I don't want someone from Rancho tell me how they want to build the park in Irvine. They may come and enjoy it, but not demand.
OCgasman said:
  The plan envisioned by Ken Smith will never come to fruition because of lack of funding.  Private money is the only way to build anything in the great park.
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Again, I agree. Does it mean that we have to completely screw it up with some crappy plan, the residents will have little benefit of?
OCgasman said:
You sound defensive and proclaiming "Why don't you build a ball field on your property" adds nothing to this dialogue.
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So, you are self-centric and refuse to do good to all the OC residents.... So selfish....

All I am saying is that 5P proposal is terrible. Unless they come back with something valuable, the city council shouldn't even waste their time on reviewing the  proposal.... unless.... *some* of them have a *special* interest in 5P plan. Then, it will explain a lot...
 
Has their been traffic and environmental impact studies that support being able to build another 4600 homes?

A nice park isn't going to reduce traffic.
 
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