God?

[irvinehomeowner]

Surprised to see more than 45% do believe in God and call themselves Christians in this forum.

If you are one of them, do you literally believe everything that's written in The Holy Bible (yes, 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) and it is a inerrant word of God? There could be arguments from different versions of translations and even language barriers, but I'm asking the original classic Hebrew, Greek scripture version.

If your answer is, "Well, I don't literally believe the earth was made in 6 days," then you're not really a Christian.

Seems like a loaded question.

The Bible is how God communicates with us. It describes who he is, what he has done (I realize the "preferred" way is to capitalize "He", but I'm trying to be conversational), and what his desire is for humanity.

I have my doubts from time to time, and I wonder if that makes me less of (or not even) a Christian... or just human.

I do want to get back to qwerty's statement:

i think its more difficult to believe there is a god than not.

So what happens when we die?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

May I also say many if not most people who say they are Christian may not really be Christian...

How do you make that determination?

 

[Mety]

Surprised to see more than 45% do believe in God and call themselves Christians in this forum.

If you are one of them, do you literally believe everything that's written in The Holy Bible (yes, 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) and it is a inerrant word of God? There could be arguments from different versions of translations and even language barriers, but I'm asking the original classic Hebrew, Greek scripture version.

If your answer is, "Well, I don't literally believe the earth was made in 6 days," then you're not really a Christian.

Seems like a loaded question.

The Bible is how God communicates with us. It describes who he is, what he has done (I realize the "preferred" way is to capitalize "He", but I'm trying to be conversational), and what his desire is for humanity.

I have my doubts from time to time, and I wonder if that makes me less of (or not even) a Christian... or just human.

I do want to get back to qwerty's statement:

i think its more difficult to believe there is a god than not.

So what happens when we die?

Having your doubts is normal as we are just humans and have limitation of understanding things only within the boundaries of what we can imagine. But since God the Creator of the universe is limitless and in charge of the whole generations and History, He understands us fine. As we doubt time to time, He ensures us again and again in His words. Where am I getting these information about God? From the book called The Holy Bible. I recommend ESV since that's the closest translation to the original script, but other versions should be fine as long as you really want to know God.

I believe in the God the Father, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. Three in One. This is God I believe and The Bible is the absolute and the fastest source I can know God. There are other ways to recognize God. When we see how this universe is holding together without falling apart, the sky, the rain, the sun, all the creatures from God and also how we as humans, made in image of God, communicate with this thing called "word" differing from animals and insects, we can only conclude there must be a Creator holding this world together. So God picked people from different times of history to write the bible to communicate to us who He is, what He has done and what He desires from us as IHO mentioned.

But to actually believe the word of God is not really our job. We can only ask with sincere heart and desire to know God. Then God willingly grants us the Holy Spirit, the helper for us to understand God's words correctly when we read and study the word of God. When God's word says He made the world in 6 days, I don't believe this perfect God made a mistake for us to translate in our own understanding and turn into some other number than 6 days as we know today.


What happens when we die? Well, first of all, why do we die? Why is every living creature dying? Again, I'll argue only with what's written in The Bible, which I believe is the inerrant word of God.

We die because Adam ate that apple which God told him will surely die if he eats (well, technically Eve first ate then gave it to Adam). Adam's sin brought death into this world when he ate of that apple. Thus the sin separated us from God and the separation from God means no longer eternal life - death. God though gave Adam a chance to repent and live 900+ years on this earth. But what God has said must take place so sin is the main reason why we all die. Now because God the Father so loved us, sent His Son Jesus into this world so that the Son would take all the sins of this world and put death into death. He died in place of us and rose again from the dead to ensure us the eternal life again. So God's curse is no longer what separates us from God. Now it's either we have faith or no faith. Whether if we have faith that Jesus is the Christ who will present us to God the Father as his own, replacing our sinful status as Righteous, or don't believe all these and keep living with loving our sin. What happens when we die? Those who have faith will go into the presence of God living eternally and those who don't have faith are still under a curse thus go into the eternal life without God - what we know of hell.

Again, these are what's written in the bible and it's the work of the Holy Spirit to believe these are true. Our part is we can ask God that we could have faith and those who sincerely ask will be granted as that also is written/promised in His words.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Surprised to see more than 45% do believe in God and call themselves Christians in this forum.

If you are one of them, do you literally believe everything that's written in The Holy Bible (yes, 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) and it is a inerrant word of God? There could be arguments from different versions of translations and even language barriers, but I'm asking the original classic Hebrew, Greek scripture version.

If your answer is, "Well, I don't literally believe the earth was made in 6 days," then you're not really a Christian.

Well...that depends on your definition of literal.  I believe that the Bible is the the world of God but that each of the books/verses have to be put into the context of when they were written. 

Take your "six day" example...that came from Genesis.  So when it was written and transmitted thousands of years ago...the concept of the universe and billions and billions of years were not accessible to the common person.  It makes much more sense to make it a simple categorization of what happened and how the universe was formed.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Surprised to see more than 45% do believe in God and call themselves Christians in this forum.

If you are one of them, do you literally believe everything that's written in The Holy Bible (yes, 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) and it is a inerrant word of God? There could be arguments from different versions of translations and even language barriers, but I'm asking the original classic Hebrew, Greek scripture version.

If your answer is, "Well, I don't literally believe the earth was made in 6 days," then you're not really a Christian.

Personally, I feel organized religion is essentially a scam. But like many things in life, it still has its benefits.

45% actually seems right to me. 35% of Americans polled in 2018 are not religious.

This also has a lot to do with age.

Americans, between the age of 18-44, 45% are not religious.

In comparison, older Americans age 55-64 , 75% are religious.

I mean arguably society is a scam but there are benefits.

 

[Mety]

May I also say many if not most people who say they are Christian may not really be Christian...

How do you make that determination?

I believe the church is where the word of God is preached and taught. The gathering originated from the believers of Christ being taught by the Apostles, learning the Old Testament and how the scripture all pointed out to Jesus Christ and these are all written in which we know of as the New Testament.

Today, churches seem more like a concert gathering or some fancy speakers trying to be cool and hip up to date with the current trend of the world cracking nice jokes. Some places give positive vibes and some places take the role of the Holy Spirit in total wrong (un-biblical) ways where teaching and learning the word of God alone has become a rare thing. I wonder how many people are actually interested in God? Can you love God without all these nice lightings and music? Are you interested in knowing God more besides from trying to get your own benefits? I mean if you really are gathering because of Jesus, you at least would want to know more of him from His own words instead of listening to uplifting music only, right? The Apostle Paul and John kept on writing letters of warnings and commands of staying in faith, abiding in His words instead of accepting weird teachings which will corrupt eventually. Church is not supposed to have nice programs to attract more people. It's a place to learn His words which actually might scare away people.

I believe though even from a non-biblical church, there could be genuine believers who really seek God and desire to know him, which is how to love God, and God will see them as real Christians.

 

[Mety]

Surprised to see more than 45% do believe in God and call themselves Christians in this forum.

If you are one of them, do you literally believe everything that's written in The Holy Bible (yes, 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) and it is a inerrant word of God? There could be arguments from different versions of translations and even language barriers, but I'm asking the original classic Hebrew, Greek scripture version.

If your answer is, "Well, I don't literally believe the earth was made in 6 days," then you're not really a Christian.

Well...that depends on your definition of literal.  I believe that the Bible is the the world of God but that each of the books/verses have to be put into the context of when they were written. 

Take your "six day" example...that came from Genesis.  So when it was written and transmitted thousands of years ago...the concept of the universe and billions and billions of years were not accessible to the common person.  It makes much more sense to make it a simple categorization of what happened and how the universe was formed.

I'm not sure what your position is here.

So you do believe God created what we know as the earth in 6 days or you rather believe in the science where it says it should have taken millions of years for earth to be formed?

It seems believing in the former is more making it simple for me.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

May I also say many if not most people who say they are Christian may not really be Christian...

How do you make that determination?

I believe the church is where the word of God is preached and taught. The gathering originated from the believers of Christ being taught by the Apostles, learning the Old Testament and how the scripture all pointed out to Jesus Christ and these are all written in which we know of as the New Testament.

Today, churches seem more like a concert gathering or some fancy speakers trying to be cool and hip up to date with the current trend of the world cracking nice jokes. Some places give positive vibes and some places take the role of the Holy Spirit in total wrong (un-biblical) ways where teaching and learning the word of God alone has become a rare thing. I wonder how many people are actually interested in God? Can you love God without all these nice lightings and music? Are you interested in knowing God more besides from trying to get your own benefits? I mean if you really are gathering because of Jesus, you at least would want to know more of him from His own words instead of listening to uplifting music only, right? The Apostle Paul and John kept on writing letters of warnings and commands of staying in faith, abiding in His words instead of accepting weird teachings which will corrupt eventually. Church is not supposed to have nice programs to attract more people. It's a place to learn His words which actually might scare away people.

I believe though even from a non-biblical church, there could be genuine believers who really seek God and desire to know him, which is how to love God, and God will see them as real Christians.

In this, I think each can make their own interpretation.

Church is also a place where you worship God, thus, singing songs of praise (whether with an elaborate rock/pop band, a choir, or an acoustic guitar) is worship.

If a sermon is entertaining and topical but still based on scripture, is that non-Christian?

I think church has a broader definition because it's also about community, support and worship than just preaching and teaching.

 

[Mety]

May I also say many if not most people who say they are Christian may not really be Christian...

How do you make that determination?

I believe the church is where the word of God is preached and taught. The gathering originated from the believers of Christ being taught by the Apostles, learning the Old Testament and how the scripture all pointed out to Jesus Christ and these are all written in which we know of as the New Testament.

Today, churches seem more like a concert gathering or some fancy speakers trying to be cool and hip up to date with the current trend of the world cracking nice jokes. Some places give positive vibes and some places take the role of the Holy Spirit in total wrong (un-biblical) ways where teaching and learning the word of God alone has become a rare thing. I wonder how many people are actually interested in God? Can you love God without all these nice lightings and music? Are you interested in knowing God more besides from trying to get your own benefits? I mean if you really are gathering because of Jesus, you at least would want to know more of him from His own words instead of listening to uplifting music only, right? The Apostle Paul and John kept on writing letters of warnings and commands of staying in faith, abiding in His words instead of accepting weird teachings which will corrupt eventually. Church is not supposed to have nice programs to attract more people. It's a place to learn His words which actually might scare away people.

I believe though even from a non-biblical church, there could be genuine believers who really seek God and desire to know him, which is how to love God, and God will see them as real Christians.

In this, I think each can make their own interpretation.

Church is also a place where you worship God, thus, singing songs of praise (whether with an elaborate rock/pop band, a choir, or an acoustic guitar) is worship.

If a sermon is entertaining and topical but still based on scripture, is that non-Christian?

I think church has a broader definition because it's also about community, support and worship than just preaching and teaching.

Yes, you are right. Those elements are all fine. But if it's missing the main message, the gospel, which really is learning about Christ, then that's where I see them non-biblical.

I wasn't just talking about music. Feel-good-sermons or something that's trying to please people rather than God is not what church is supposed to be, but that's what I see with many churches today. It's actually nothing new. That kind of wrong teachings have been around since the days when The Bible was being written. Christianity is pretty offensive as a matter of fact. Hiding those is not going to cut it.

BTW, worship is not music. It's every day life walking with God. And to go even little deeper, it's pretty safe to say giving sacrifice (in this day, we can say, giving money) is more fit than singing songs in terms of translating the word, worship.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

May I also say many if not most people who say they are Christian may not really be Christian...

How do you make that determination?

I believe the church is where the word of God is preached and taught. The gathering originated from the believers of Christ being taught by the Apostles, learning the Old Testament and how the scripture all pointed out to Jesus Christ and these are all written in which we know of as the New Testament.

Today, churches seem more like a concert gathering or some fancy speakers trying to be cool and hip up to date with the current trend of the world cracking nice jokes. Some places give positive vibes and some places take the role of the Holy Spirit in total wrong (un-biblical) ways where teaching and learning the word of God alone has become a rare thing. I wonder how many people are actually interested in God? Can you love God without all these nice lightings and music? Are you interested in knowing God more besides from trying to get your own benefits? I mean if you really are gathering because of Jesus, you at least would want to know more of him from His own words instead of listening to uplifting music only, right? The Apostle Paul and John kept on writing letters of warnings and commands of staying in faith, abiding in His words instead of accepting weird teachings which will corrupt eventually. Church is not supposed to have nice programs to attract more people. It's a place to learn His words which actually might scare away people.

I believe though even from a non-biblical church, there could be genuine believers who really seek God and desire to know him, which is how to love God, and God will see them as real Christians.

In this, I think each can make their own interpretation.

Church is also a place where you worship God, thus, singing songs of praise (whether with an elaborate rock/pop band, a choir, or an acoustic guitar) is worship.

If a sermon is entertaining and topical but still based on scripture, is that non-Christian?

I think church has a broader definition because it's also about community, support and worship than just preaching and teaching.

Yes, you are right. Those elements are all fine. But if it's missing the main message, the gospel, which really is learning about Christ, then that's where I see them non-biblical.

I wasn't just talking about music. Feel-good-sermons or something that's trying to please people rather than God is not what church is supposed to be, but that's what I see with many churches today. It's actually nothing new. That kind of wrong teachings have been around since the days when The Bible was being written. Christianity is pretty offensive as a matter of fact. Hiding those is not going to cut it.

BTW, worship is not music. It's every day life walking with God. And to go even little deeper, it's pretty safe to say giving sacrifice (in this day, we can say, giving money) is more fit than singing songs in terms of translating the word, worship.

I think you may be too literal.

So there is no music in your church? No singing songs that praise God, that worship his name, that, like the Bible, tells us who he is and how his grace has saved us?

What's wrong with a sermon that makes people feel good about their faith? How is giving money more "Christian" than praying, singing, worshiping, supporting your fellow church members, or reading the bible?

As I said before, I don't think any one of us can say what is the right or wrong way but as long as what is done is biblical and follows the scripture it's a good base.

You must be a member of the Perfect Church.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Surprised to see more than 45% do believe in God and call themselves Christians in this forum.

If you are one of them, do you literally believe everything that's written in The Holy Bible (yes, 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) and it is a inerrant word of God? There could be arguments from different versions of translations and even language barriers, but I'm asking the original classic Hebrew, Greek scripture version.

If your answer is, "Well, I don't literally believe the earth was made in 6 days," then you're not really a Christian.

Well...that depends on your definition of literal.  I believe that the Bible is the the world of God but that each of the books/verses have to be put into the context of when they were written. 

Take your "six day" example...that came from Genesis.  So when it was written and transmitted thousands of years ago...the concept of the universe and billions and billions of years were not accessible to the common person.  It makes much more sense to make it a simple categorization of what happened and how the universe was formed.

I'm not sure what your position is here.

So you do believe God created what we know as the earth in 6 days or you rather believe in the science where it says it should have taken millions of years for earth to be formed?

It seems believing in the former is more making it simple for me.

I don't think it's important at all.  The key is that God made the universe...the exact mechanism of how it happened is irrelevant.  It's just a way to get bogged down on technicalities and inane detail. 

God created the Universe...He can do it 6 days or over billions of years. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

May I also say many if not most people who say they are Christian may not really be Christian...

How do you make that determination?

I believe the church is where the word of God is preached and taught. The gathering originated from the believers of Christ being taught by the Apostles, learning the Old Testament and how the scripture all pointed out to Jesus Christ and these are all written in which we know of as the New Testament.

Today, churches seem more like a concert gathering or some fancy speakers trying to be cool and hip up to date with the current trend of the world cracking nice jokes. Some places give positive vibes and some places take the role of the Holy Spirit in total wrong (un-biblical) ways where teaching and learning the word of God alone has become a rare thing. I wonder how many people are actually interested in God? Can you love God without all these nice lightings and music? Are you interested in knowing God more besides from trying to get your own benefits? I mean if you really are gathering because of Jesus, you at least would want to know more of him from His own words instead of listening to uplifting music only, right? The Apostle Paul and John kept on writing letters of warnings and commands of staying in faith, abiding in His words instead of accepting weird teachings which will corrupt eventually. Church is not supposed to have nice programs to attract more people. It's a place to learn His words which actually might scare away people.

I believe though even from a non-biblical church, there could be genuine believers who really seek God and desire to know him, which is how to love God, and God will see them as real Christians.

In this, I think each can make their own interpretation.

Church is also a place where you worship God, thus, singing songs of praise (whether with an elaborate rock/pop band, a choir, or an acoustic guitar) is worship.

If a sermon is entertaining and topical but still based on scripture, is that non-Christian?

I think church has a broader definition because it's also about community, support and worship than just preaching and teaching.

Yes, you are right. Those elements are all fine. But if it's missing the main message, the gospel, which really is learning about Christ, then that's where I see them non-biblical.

I wasn't just talking about music. Feel-good-sermons or something that's trying to please people rather than God is not what church is supposed to be, but that's what I see with many churches today. It's actually nothing new. That kind of wrong teachings have been around since the days when The Bible was being written. Christianity is pretty offensive as a matter of fact. Hiding those is not going to cut it.

BTW, worship is not music. It's every day life walking with God. And to go even little deeper, it's pretty safe to say giving sacrifice (in this day, we can say, giving money) is more fit than singing songs in terms of translating the word, worship.

Why is worship not music?  The entire book of Psalm is about singing to God and worshiping himself.

I completely disagree on this concept that there is a particular way to worship...it is exactly what Jesus came to break down.

 

[momopi]

People spend an excessive amount of time obsessing over the heavens and afterlife.

Life on earth is ephemeral.  You don't really have a choice in finding out if there's an afterlife.  So what's the hurry?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

People spend an excessive amount of time obsessing over the heavens and afterlife.

Life on earth is ephemeral.  You don't really have a choice in finding out if there's an afterlife.  So what's the hurry?

It gives you additional purpose while you are alive.

 

[Mety]

May I also say many if not most people who say they are Christian may not really be Christian...

How do you make that determination?

I believe the church is where the word of God is preached and taught. The gathering originated from the believers of Christ being taught by the Apostles, learning the Old Testament and how the scripture all pointed out to Jesus Christ and these are all written in which we know of as the New Testament.

Today, churches seem more like a concert gathering or some fancy speakers trying to be cool and hip up to date with the current trend of the world cracking nice jokes. Some places give positive vibes and some places take the role of the Holy Spirit in total wrong (un-biblical) ways where teaching and learning the word of God alone has become a rare thing. I wonder how many people are actually interested in God? Can you love God without all these nice lightings and music? Are you interested in knowing God more besides from trying to get your own benefits? I mean if you really are gathering because of Jesus, you at least would want to know more of him from His own words instead of listening to uplifting music only, right? The Apostle Paul and John kept on writing letters of warnings and commands of staying in faith, abiding in His words instead of accepting weird teachings which will corrupt eventually. Church is not supposed to have nice programs to attract more people. It's a place to learn His words which actually might scare away people.

I believe though even from a non-biblical church, there could be genuine believers who really seek God and desire to know him, which is how to love God, and God will see them as real Christians.

In this, I think each can make their own interpretation.

Church is also a place where you worship God, thus, singing songs of praise (whether with an elaborate rock/pop band, a choir, or an acoustic guitar) is worship.

If a sermon is entertaining and topical but still based on scripture, is that non-Christian?

I think church has a broader definition because it's also about community, support and worship than just preaching and teaching.

Yes, you are right. Those elements are all fine. But if it's missing the main message, the gospel, which really is learning about Christ, then that's where I see them non-biblical.

I wasn't just talking about music. Feel-good-sermons or something that's trying to please people rather than God is not what church is supposed to be, but that's what I see with many churches today. It's actually nothing new. That kind of wrong teachings have been around since the days when The Bible was being written. Christianity is pretty offensive as a matter of fact. Hiding those is not going to cut it.

BTW, worship is not music. It's every day life walking with God. And to go even little deeper, it's pretty safe to say giving sacrifice (in this day, we can say, giving money) is more fit than singing songs in terms of translating the word, worship.

I think you may be too literal.

So there is no music in your church? No singing songs that praise God, that worship his name, that, like the Bible, tells us who he is and how his grace has saved us?

What's wrong with a sermon that makes people feel good about their faith? How is giving money more "Christian" than praying, singing, worshiping, supporting your fellow church members, or reading the bible?

As I said before, I don't think any one of us can say what is the right or wrong way but as long as what is done is biblical and follows the scripture it's a good base.

You must be a member of the Perfect Church.

I didn't say there was no music in our church. I didn't say feel-good-sermons are bad.  I only said there has to be gospel preached, Christ has to be taught to people. If that's missing, people don't really need to gather in church. They can go somewhere else for those.

I do believe there is right or wrong in terms of these biblical doctrines. It's not like deciding if Delano is overpriced or not. This kind has to be clear cut and dry and that standard only has to be based on The Bible.

What's wrong with a sermon that makes people feel good about their faith? Well, if you read especially the book of Acts, the disciples only felt good about their faith when they were persecuted, beaten because Jesus said they would be when they preached the gospel and they were. So that gave them confirmation about their faith and they were only happy. I didn't see any verse that says some kind of cool teacher gave a message and they all felt good about themselves.

I didn't say giving money is more christian. People these days tend to translate the word worship as music so I just wanted to clarify what it really means. As I've said, worship is walking daily with God. And giving money is actually more biblical than singing songs when we say worship. I'm saying money because it really all comes down to money vs. God believe or not. That's why Jesus said you can't serve both money and God. I'm not saying give money to church. You can if your heart desires, but I'm saying sacrifice what's most important to you for God. "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." - Matthew 6:21

I'm not in a perfect church. There is no perfect church until Jesus comes and I'm sure you know this as well. But again there has to be a standard we live by the book and that is The Holy Bible. We can't reach perfection and Jesus actually kept saying that when He walked on earth when spiritual leaders acted like they were. Only Jesus is perfect and it's great to learn that perfection through His words. It DOES NOT mean I'm perfect. Only He is and I'm glad God the Father sees Him when He sees me.

 

[Mety]

Surprised to see more than 45% do believe in God and call themselves Christians in this forum.

If you are one of them, do you literally believe everything that's written in The Holy Bible (yes, 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) and it is a inerrant word of God? There could be arguments from different versions of translations and even language barriers, but I'm asking the original classic Hebrew, Greek scripture version.

If your answer is, "Well, I don't literally believe the earth was made in 6 days," then you're not really a Christian.

Well...that depends on your definition of literal.  I believe that the Bible is the the world of God but that each of the books/verses have to be put into the context of when they were written. 

Take your "six day" example...that came from Genesis.  So when it was written and transmitted thousands of years ago...the concept of the universe and billions and billions of years were not accessible to the common person.  It makes much more sense to make it a simple categorization of what happened and how the universe was formed.

I'm not sure what your position is here.

So you do believe God created what we know as the earth in 6 days or you rather believe in the science where it says it should have taken millions of years for earth to be formed?

It seems believing in the former is more making it simple for me.

I don't think it's important at all.  The key is that God made the universe...the exact mechanism of how it happened is irrelevant.  It's just a way to get bogged down on technicalities and inane detail. 

God created the Universe...He can do it 6 days or over billions of years.

You don't think it's important?  Do you think God wrote something that's not important?
You are either playing safe or not really believing The Bible as inerrant word of God.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I didn't say there was no music in our church. I didn't say feel-good-sermons are bad.  I only said there has to be gospel preached, Christ has to be taught to people. If that's missing, people don't really need to gather in church. They can go somewhere else for those.

I do believe there is right or wrong in terms of these biblical doctrines. It's not like deciding if Delano is overpriced or not. This kind has to be clear cut and dry and that standard only has to be based on The Bible.

What's wrong with a sermon that makes people feel good about their faith? Well, if you read especially the book of Acts, the disciples only felt good about their faith when they were persecuted, beaten because Jesus said they would be when they preached the gospel and they were. So that gave them confirmation about their faith and they were only happy. I didn't see any verse that says some kind of cool teacher gave a message and they all felt good about themselves.

I didn't say giving money is more christian. People these days tend to translate the word worship as music so I just wanted to clarify what it really means. As I've said, worship is walking daily with God. And giving money is actually more biblical than singing songs when we say worship. I'm saying money because it really all comes down to money vs. God believe or not. That's why Jesus said you can't serve both money and God. I'm not saying give money to church. You can if your heart desires, but I'm saying sacrifice what's most important to you for God. "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." - Matthew 6:21

I'm not in a perfect church. There is no perfect church until Jesus comes and I'm sure you know this as well. But again there has to be a standard we live by the book and that is The Holy Bible. We can't reach perfection and Jesus actually kept saying that when He walked on earth when spiritual leaders acted like they were. Only Jesus is perfect and it's great to learn that perfection through His words. It DOES NOT mean I'm perfect. Only He is and I'm glad God the Father sees Him when He sees me.

I don't understand your point...being a Christian has good, bad, sad, happy, tragic, elated, excited, and normal moments.  Being a Christian makes one no different than a non-Christian in terms of experiences, just a difference in how one views those experiences and what to take away from them. 

While there are certainly description of Christians being prosecuted in Acts, there were also moments of great joys and elation like Pentacost.  Paul said to take joy in all times and experience because Christians are supposed to have a higher level of understanding and different POV. 

While I don't believe in a church that only preaches in joyful messages (I'm looking at Joel Osteen)...a church can talk about many different aspects of life both good and bad.

 

[Mety]

May I also say many if not most people who say they are Christian may not really be Christian...

How do you make that determination?

I believe the church is where the word of God is preached and taught. The gathering originated from the believers of Christ being taught by the Apostles, learning the Old Testament and how the scripture all pointed out to Jesus Christ and these are all written in which we know of as the New Testament.

Today, churches seem more like a concert gathering or some fancy speakers trying to be cool and hip up to date with the current trend of the world cracking nice jokes. Some places give positive vibes and some places take the role of the Holy Spirit in total wrong (un-biblical) ways where teaching and learning the word of God alone has become a rare thing. I wonder how many people are actually interested in God? Can you love God without all these nice lightings and music? Are you interested in knowing God more besides from trying to get your own benefits? I mean if you really are gathering because of Jesus, you at least would want to know more of him from His own words instead of listening to uplifting music only, right? The Apostle Paul and John kept on writing letters of warnings and commands of staying in faith, abiding in His words instead of accepting weird teachings which will corrupt eventually. Church is not supposed to have nice programs to attract more people. It's a place to learn His words which actually might scare away people.

I believe though even from a non-biblical church, there could be genuine believers who really seek God and desire to know him, which is how to love God, and God will see them as real Christians.

In this, I think each can make their own interpretation.

Church is also a place where you worship God, thus, singing songs of praise (whether with an elaborate rock/pop band, a choir, or an acoustic guitar) is worship.

If a sermon is entertaining and topical but still based on scripture, is that non-Christian?

I think church has a broader definition because it's also about community, support and worship than just preaching and teaching.

Yes, you are right. Those elements are all fine. But if it's missing the main message, the gospel, which really is learning about Christ, then that's where I see them non-biblical.

I wasn't just talking about music. Feel-good-sermons or something that's trying to please people rather than God is not what church is supposed to be, but that's what I see with many churches today. It's actually nothing new. That kind of wrong teachings have been around since the days when The Bible was being written. Christianity is pretty offensive as a matter of fact. Hiding those is not going to cut it.

BTW, worship is not music. It's every day life walking with God. And to go even little deeper, it's pretty safe to say giving sacrifice (in this day, we can say, giving money) is more fit than singing songs in terms of translating the word, worship.

Why is worship not music?  The entire book of Psalm is about singing to God and worshiping himself.

I completely disagree on this concept that there is a particular way to worship...it is exactly what Jesus came to break down.

Read what I replied to IHO. Music or singing songs about God can be part of worship. And believe me, it's a beautiful thing.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Surprised to see more than 45% do believe in God and call themselves Christians in this forum.

If you are one of them, do you literally believe everything that's written in The Holy Bible (yes, 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) and it is a inerrant word of God? There could be arguments from different versions of translations and even language barriers, but I'm asking the original classic Hebrew, Greek scripture version.

If your answer is, "Well, I don't literally believe the earth was made in 6 days," then you're not really a Christian.

Well...that depends on your definition of literal.  I believe that the Bible is the the world of God but that each of the books/verses have to be put into the context of when they were written. 

Take your "six day" example...that came from Genesis.  So when it was written and transmitted thousands of years ago...the concept of the universe and billions and billions of years were not accessible to the common person.  It makes much more sense to make it a simple categorization of what happened and how the universe was formed.

I'm not sure what your position is here.

So you do believe God created what we know as the earth in 6 days or you rather believe in the science where it says it should have taken millions of years for earth to be formed?

It seems believing in the former is more making it simple for me.

I don't think it's important at all.  The key is that God made the universe...the exact mechanism of how it happened is irrelevant.  It's just a way to get bogged down on technicalities and inane detail. 

God created the Universe...He can do it 6 days or over billions of years.

You don't think it's important?  Do you think God wrote something that's not important?
You are either playing safe or not really believing The Bible as inerrant word of God.

No...I don't think it's something to worry about.  I think God wrote a lot of things in the Bible to give people three thousand years ago for them to understand.  Their understanding of the universe is far different than ours.  It matter not to my faith or belief in God whether the term 6 days is symbolic or literal.  It's unimportant.

Thanks for telling what I believe or do not believe.

 

[Mety]

I didn't say there was no music in our church. I didn't say feel-good-sermons are bad.  I only said there has to be gospel preached, Christ has to be taught to people. If that's missing, people don't really need to gather in church. They can go somewhere else for those.

I do believe there is right or wrong in terms of these biblical doctrines. It's not like deciding if Delano is overpriced or not. This kind has to be clear cut and dry and that standard only has to be based on The Bible.

What's wrong with a sermon that makes people feel good about their faith? Well, if you read especially the book of Acts, the disciples only felt good about their faith when they were persecuted, beaten because Jesus said they would be when they preached the gospel and they were. So that gave them confirmation about their faith and they were only happy. I didn't see any verse that says some kind of cool teacher gave a message and they all felt good about themselves.

I didn't say giving money is more christian. People these days tend to translate the word worship as music so I just wanted to clarify what it really means. As I've said, worship is walking daily with God. And giving money is actually more biblical than singing songs when we say worship. I'm saying money because it really all comes down to money vs. God believe or not. That's why Jesus said you can't serve both money and God. I'm not saying give money to church. You can if your heart desires, but I'm saying sacrifice what's most important to you for God. "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." - Matthew 6:21

I'm not in a perfect church. There is no perfect church until Jesus comes and I'm sure you know this as well. But again there has to be a standard we live by the book and that is The Holy Bible. We can't reach perfection and Jesus actually kept saying that when He walked on earth when spiritual leaders acted like they were. Only Jesus is perfect and it's great to learn that perfection through His words. It DOES NOT mean I'm perfect. Only He is and I'm glad God the Father sees Him when He sees me.

I don't understand your point...being a Christian has good, bad, sad, happy, tragic, elated, excited, and normal moments.  Being a Christian makes one no different than a non-Christian in terms of experiences, just a difference in how one views those experiences and what to take away from them. 

While there are certainly description of Christians being prosecuted in Acts, there were also moments of great joys and elation like Pentacost.  Paul said to take joy in all times and experience because Christians are supposed to have a higher level of understanding and different POV. 

While I don't believe in a church that only preaches in joyful messages (I'm looking at Joel Osteen)...a church can talk about many different aspects of life both good and bad.

It could be my bad writing, but I don't see much different view from what you wrote here so I don't know what you are not getting. Please describe more.