Flooring with Outside Contractor

Ok, I just got a quote from Tompkins Flooring and I have to say I am FLOORED!!  No pun intended.  I am so upset at the quote.

Originally Venetian over-quoted my square footage by 20% and I was ok with the price of their quote, just a little shocked at the extra 20%.  But at least my entire house will be engineered wood (except stairs).

After a quote from Tompkins Flooring with the same exact wood, same manufacturer, but I requested no upstairs hallway, no loft, no stairs and so the square footage calculated was quite reasonable (200 less square foot than Venetian).  Except when they gave me a quote, it was $2000 MORE than Venetian.  OMG!  I had to put on the biggest poker face.

I did want to add the customer service was fine.  Nice people.  But the material I was looking for is over-priced at Tompkins.  I know a friend of mine who purchased a bigger house is going with Tompkins because they came in at the cheapest price.  Go figure.

Anyhow I'm down to 2 more vendors and my flooring madness will come to an end.
 
Ok I signed my flooring contract.  I am done.

I went through the process and got quotes from various companies.

Got to say Eric is good.  His willingness to always meet at the model really sold us.  I was calling to simply ask for a re-quote but we ended meeting face to face again and he had a lot more time this time around.

He answered all my questions about glue, baseboards, length of time to completion, etc.

He wrote everything we discussed into the contract.  Then he gave me a new  price.  I was very happy. 

I even got to pick the baseboards from his truck.  I got to take 2 samples home just to see it in various settings.

I think Eric was much happier this time because I knew my flooring material and terminology.  All in all the meeting went well.  Much different than my first meeting.

I was this close going with OC Flooring or MAC Flooring.  But Eric was able to match everything they offered plus more and the fact he can finish the job in 2  days.

It was a close race.  I racked up many cell phone minutes this week negotiating with all the vendors.  Venetian came out on top at the end.  Gotta say ... never saw that coming.
 
Just sharing my flooring experience. 

I learned so much from this journey and so I'm sharing everything I learned from all the vendors I contacted.

I was shopping around for engineered wood.  The thickness of the wood mattered to me.  I have no interest in re-finishing as re-finishing the wood means I have to remove ALL furniture in the house from the house during the re-finishing project.

I purchased Urban engineered maple since the Janka rating was decent for maple. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

Urban gives out FREE samples from their website and their showroom is right in City of Industry.  I love being able to see, touch, and feel the wood in large spaces so I can get a better picture of how it would look in an entire room.

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Vendors
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Incredible Flooring - PROS:  Really nice people, they always returned phone calls and took their time explaining their products.  Material pricing was the cheapest and labor was reasonable.  They do not sub-contract their work.  They have some private labels on their products, but most of their wood floors are from the manufacturer.  They had a large selection of wood, carpet, tiles, even cork. CONS:  Lack of reviews online for me to know the quality of their installation.  It takes them several days to install the flooring. 

Thompkins - PROS:  Nice showroom.  Convenient location.  Sales rep was nice and gave me a quote fast.  They glue down their floors.  CONS:  They were $3K+ above all other vendors I vetted.  It would take them over a week to install the engineered wood and carpet.  They have mostly private labels on their products so it's hard to compare quotes.

OC Flooring - PROS:  Quote came in at a good reasonable and competitive pricing.  They use Bostick 3-1 Vapor lock for their glue.  Sam the owner likes to use email to communicate which is convenient for me.  He also calls on the phone to verify info before emailing.  They glue down their floors only.  CONS:  It took them 3 weeks to get back with me on a quote.  During that time I was able to vet other vendors.  I wanted to originally meet up with Sam but his schedule was too pack for me to meet with him at the model home.  So all my communication was over the phone or email.  Their 5 1/4" baseboards comes only primed.  They do not paint their baseboards.  It takes them around 5 ~ 6 days to complete the project.  Not many reviews online for me to know the quality of their installation.

MAC Flooring - PROS:  Amazing service.  It's a little store located in Aliso Viejo.  The are very popular and the reps spent a long time with us going over their products, even though they were packed with other customers.  Reps were friendly and knowledgeable.  Several online reviews raving about their quality installation.  They glue + nail their installation on the second floor.  First floor is glue only.  They use only the highest quality of material and all their installers are in-house W-2 workers.  MAC Flooring uses primarily Sikabond T21 glue on all their installs.  They warranty all their floors, any problems, just call MAC Flooring.  They are a bit pricey but Grant was willing to call me up and work with me on the quote.  I requested upgraded 5 1/4" baseboards.  MAC Flooring primes and paints all their baseboard to match the crown molding in the house.  In addition they caulk the baseboards as well.  CONS:  They were going to take 5 days to install, which is NOT bad at all.  However we are so crunched on time due to our move-in date being postponed for 2 weeks by the builder.  That unfortunately forced us to rule out MAC Flooring.

Venetian Flooring - PROS:  They pretty much own Irvine new construction homes.  Eric KNOWS Irvine construction and is always in the area.  Many many reviews online about the quality of their craftsmanship and installation.  Eric likes to meet his clients in person either at their home or model home.  He gives a quote on the spot and measures the model home right before the scheduled appointment.  Venetian does not sub-contract their workers and they work fast and with high quality.  Venetian generally include free upgraded 5 1/4" PAINTED baseboards (client provides the 1 gallon paint) in their installed price.  I got to choose my base board style.  Eric is really good about returning phone calls.  He likes to text too.  Warranty is great as well.  Just call Venetian if there's any problems.  In addition Venetian always have a couple of boxes left over for future fix-ups if needed ... like a leaky fridge.  CONS:  Venetian sometimes over-estimate the square footage.  First meeting may not go exactly as anticipated.  Some homeowners say that Venetian is over-priced. 

The above is just my experience in my vetting process.  I know other friends that has very different experiences with the vendors.  However I learned a lot from all the vendors.

1 - Baseboards, included or not?  Primed or Painted?  Or just regular quarter-rounds?  Is caulking included??

2 - Glue Glue Glue, What kind of glue?  Bostik Vapor Lock 3-in-1 OR Sikabond T21 OR Manufacturer recommended OR something else?

3 - Square Footage??  How big is your house, really?!

4 - Glued + Nailed is best for upstairs.  Then comes glued.  Then comes floated.

5 - Wood vs Carpet on stairs?  Big wide stairs can cost $5K alone because of the bull-nose and other special pieces for stair-casing.

6 - Sales tax?  Shipping?  Demoing?  What is your TRUE final price?

7 - Labor?  In-House vs. Sub-contracted?  Licensed & Bonded??

8 - How many weeks in advance do you need to book them so you get install date?

9 - Private Label vs. Manufacturer Products

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Choosing a flooring contractor is a big process but a great learning experience.  Choose one that fits your needs and works well with you. 
 
We got this thru Venetian:

woodfloor_zps05c77624.jpg
http://www.urbanfloor.com/Birch-Sarsparilla.html

About a year, so far so good.  Heavyscraped and pre-blemished.  Any new damage is hard to tell from the original.  In hindsight, a bit too dark for my taste.  Would've been nice to see more wood grain.  But it does contrast well with lighter/white/silver furniture.
 
ps9 said:
We got this thru Venetian:

woodfloor_zps05c77624.jpg
http://www.urbanfloor.com/Birch-Sarsparilla.html

About a year, so far so good.  Heavyscraped and pre-blemished.  Any new damage is hard to tell from the original.  In hindsight, a bit too dark for my taste.  Would've been nice to see more wood grain.  But it does contrast well with lighter/white/silver furniture.
Click to expand...

Oh very nice.  You went with heavy scraped.  I chose hand scraped.  I will take a picture once it's installed.  Choosing the right shade, color, texture is a full time job in it of itself. 
 
We used hardwood flooring depot after buildout.  they were awesome.  great work and great customer services.  their prices were the best.  Tompkins was 2000 more.
 
A friend of mine overheard a conversation of some family who bought an IP home and they said that when you upgrade flooring through IP, they use quarter rounds over the baseboard/flooring instead of putting the baseboard above the flooring.

Now I understand why because usually the trades put in baseboards first and then carpet and tile can be installed, but I can understand them complaining that it doesn't look as nice if it were just baseboards on top of wood. We've discussed this before, but what is your preference?

Something like this:

hardwood-floors-and-baseboard-instal-and-paint.jpg


... or something like this:

ry%3D400


A good thing about quarter rounds is it hides imperfections better if the baseboards aren't flush with the wood floor.

We had quarter rounds with our laminate floors years ago, and it didn't look that bad to me... but I was less picky back then.
 
I prefer baseboard on top of hardwood floor like the first picture.  I like the clean look with out the quarter round trims.  Another issue is that if you have a very thick hardwood and/or need to have cork sheet under the hardwood and using the quarter round trims instead, your 5" baseboard will now look like a 3.5" baseboard.

Regarding hiding the imperfections.  My contractor put caulking between the baseboard and the hardwood floor so any gap or imperfection will be concealed.  In the areas that requires quarter round trims, they also had to put caulking between the trims and hardwood floors too, so there's no clear advantage between either one in term of hiding imperfections. 

In my case,  the quarter round trims are almost as expensive as the brand new 5" baseboard.  According my guy, the quarter round trim are solid wood and the base board are cheaper (MDF) fiber boards, so the cost are very close and you are not saving that much for using quarter round trims.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
A friend of mine overheard a conversation of some family who bought an IP home and they said that when you upgrade flooring through IP, they use quarter rounds over the baseboard/flooring instead of putting the baseboard above the flooring.

Now I understand why because usually the trades put in baseboards first and then carpet and tile can be installed, but I can understand them complaining that it doesn't look as nice if it were just baseboards on top of wood. We've discussed this before, but what is your preference?

Something like this:

hardwood-floors-and-baseboard-instal-and-paint.jpg


... or something like this:

ry%3D400


A good thing about quarter rounds is it hides imperfections better if the baseboards aren't flush with the wood floor.

We had quarter rounds with our laminate floors years ago, and it didn't look that bad to me... but I was less picky back then.
Click to expand...

This is creepy.  Was your friend eating at Souplantation when they overheard this conversation??
 
I didn't think to ask where... I assumed it was at the model homes.

I think there is another thread here where some member mentioned this too.
 
@zerolot:

Since I believe you are going with Venetian and you have a new build, are they going to replace your baseboards or use quarter rounds?
 
lnc said:
I prefer baseboard on top of hardwood floor like the first picture.  I like the clean look with out the quarter round trims.  Another issue is that if you have a very thick hardwood and/or need to have cork sheet under the hardwood and using the quarter round trims instead, your 5" baseboard will now look like a 3.5" baseboard.

Regarding hiding the imperfections.  My contractor put caulking between the baseboard and the hardwood floor so any gap or imperfection will be concealed.  In the areas that requires quarter round trims, they also had to put caulking between the trims and hardwood floors too, so there's no clear advantage between either one in term of hiding imperfections. 

In my case,  the quarter round trims are almost as expensive as the brand new 5" baseboard.  According my guy, the quarter round trim are solid wood and the base board are cheaper (MDF) fiber boards, so the cost are very close and you are not saving that much for using quarter round trims.
Click to expand...

Hey lnc and ZeroLot,

For 5.25 baseboards or 5.50 baseboards, I got quoted $1.50 for material and $1.50 for labor. $200 to hire a painter and I have to buy my own paint. Is that a decent price or is there a huge markup here? I was told by the flooring company they they are making 0.50 on the material and 0.50 on the labor and paying the workers $1. Accurate or up charge?
 
Chairman said:
lnc said:
I prefer baseboard on top of hardwood floor like the first picture.  I like the clean look with out the quarter round trims.  Another issue is that if you have a very thick hardwood and/or need to have cork sheet under the hardwood and using the quarter round trims instead, your 5" baseboard will now look like a 3.5" baseboard.

Regarding hiding the imperfections.  My contractor put caulking between the baseboard and the hardwood floor so any gap or imperfection will be concealed.  In the areas that requires quarter round trims, they also had to put caulking between the trims and hardwood floors too, so there's no clear advantage between either one in term of hiding imperfections. 

In my case,  the quarter round trims are almost as expensive as the brand new 5" baseboard.  According my guy, the quarter round trim are solid wood and the base board are cheaper (MDF) fiber boards, so the cost are very close and you are not saving that much for using quarter round trims.
Click to expand...

Hey lnc and ZeroLot,

For 5.25 baseboards or 5.50 baseboards, I got quoted $1.50 for material and $1.50 for labor. $200 to hire a painter and I have to buy my own paint. Is that a decent price or is there a huge markup here? I was told by the flooring company they they are making 0.50 on the material and 0.50 on the labor and paying the workers $1. Accurate or up charge?
Click to expand...

That's sounds pretty good.  Usually the contractors are not trying to make money on the baseboard, since the flooring is where they make the profit.   
 
lnc said:
Chairman said:
lnc said:
I prefer baseboard on top of hardwood floor like the first picture.  I like the clean look with out the quarter round trims.  Another issue is that if you have a very thick hardwood and/or need to have cork sheet under the hardwood and using the quarter round trims instead, your 5" baseboard will now look like a 3.5" baseboard.

Regarding hiding the imperfections.  My contractor put caulking between the baseboard and the hardwood floor so any gap or imperfection will be concealed.  In the areas that requires quarter round trims, they also had to put caulking between the trims and hardwood floors too, so there's no clear advantage between either one in term of hiding imperfections. 

In my case,  the quarter round trims are almost as expensive as the brand new 5" baseboard.  According my guy, the quarter round trim are solid wood and the base board are cheaper (MDF) fiber boards, so the cost are very close and you are not saving that much for using quarter round trims.
Click to expand...

Hey lnc and ZeroLot,

For 5.25 baseboards or 5.50 baseboards, I got quoted $1.50 for material and $1.50 for labor. $200 to hire a painter and I have to buy my own paint. Is that a decent price or is there a huge markup here? I was told by the flooring company they they are making 0.50 on the material and 0.50 on the labor and paying the workers $1. Accurate or up charge?
Click to expand...

That's sounds pretty good.  Usually the contractors are not trying to make money on the baseboard, since the flooring is where they make the profit. 
Click to expand...

lnc,

Did you match your baseboards with the one that came with your home from IP? If so do you know which one it is? I would like to get the same one since I'm keeping the baseboards in the bathroom and bedrooms. Thanks!
 
irvinehomeowner said:
@zerolot:

Since I believe you are going with Venetian and you have a new build, are they going to replace your baseboards or use quarter rounds?
Click to expand...

I chose Venetian because they included free 5 1/4" baseboards and they are painting it for me as well.  I just have to supply the paint.  Not only is Venetian upgrading the baseboards in the house that's getting the wood floors but they are upgrading my ENTIRE house with the same matching baseboard.  Eric also let me choose which style of baseboards I wanted.  I am very excited with the look I chose.

 
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