Columbus Grove: why live there

[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1221280207]Something interesting that was told to me by a salesperson at WB... any type of widescale price adjustment for a development has to be approved by The Irvine Company. What this means is that they really can't lower the sales price of their homes all that much but they can kick it back in incentives or financing.



Whereas in CG, the salespeople were willing to knock $200k off the prices of homes and still offer incentives.



Is this true? Does the mere fact of being in a non-TIC development give the builder more leeway on pricing?</blockquote>


Yes to both questions. The Irvine Company is simply unwilling to lower the price for its land. It sells small phases, and it has agreements with builders controlling asking prices. However, they have no control over what people are willing and able to offer. It is the collapse of bids due to the elimination of exotic financing that has stopped sales on the Ranch.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1221270271]In a year or two, WB will have its own junior high too. The CG kids will have to go to school over in Woodbridge still.</blockquote>


Actually, the planned junior high for WB was cancelled about a year ago.



I'm a Woodbury homeowner and love it here. I would never even have considered CG.
 
[quote author="jumpcut" date=1221282303][quote author="hs_teacher" date=1221270271]In a year or two, WB will have its own junior high too. The CG kids will have to go to school over in Woodbridge still.</blockquote>


Actually, the planned junior high for WB was cancelled about a year ago.



I'm a Woodbury homeowner and love it here. I would never even have considered CG.</blockquote>


Weird. IUSD is still showing this on their planned attendance maps for 2009 and I heard grading had already begun. Are you sure they aren't building a school at Jeffrey and Trabuco?



<img src="http://www.ipoplaya.com/wbjh.jpg" alt="" />
 
If you can afford it, Woodbury is a great place to live. If you are looking around the 400-500k price range, there are better places to live. I lived in Woodbury for the past year and must say that I really enjoyed the cleanliness of the community. For the 400-500k price range I feel that there are better places to buy. The tri-level along with no driveway or patio does not feel very homey.



The places we saw in VoC were very nice but the tri-level style is not that great. The 3 bedroom two level is nice but then a bit pricey when you think of total cost of ownership.



And it is on the other side of the tracks so to speak. My friend and I were driving down Edinger and he made a comment about how it is literally the other side of the tracks "from a different neighborhood"
 
My fiance and I had a discussion about purses last year. Louis Vuitton, Chanel, Prada.

It seems that she does not look at it as something that holds things.

It is something that is quality and that she can be proud of.

What if I took the Louis Vuitton name off of the purse and stuck COACH on it?

Would she love it as much? probably not! It's just the name right?



On trained eyes, Paris Hilton can wear something from Target and still look better than Panda wearing

something from Saks (that wasnt a fair comparison but you know what I mean).





[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221280261]

Point is well taken. I did not use Mercedes as the analogy to Woodbury. I chose Lexus.



In your perception the difference between the communities is only between a CG and and S then you really do not know what quality really is and that is ok. Woodbury in my opinion is a Lexus IS class. It is certainly not Crystal Cove or Shady Canyon (Mercedes). You get what you pay for. A lot of consumers would not find the differnence in a Smith and Hawken at Target from the real Smith and Hawken or Michael Grave's Target line from the Allessi line. To the trained eyes there is a huge difference in both products. Columbus is "brand name sold at Target." Nice to look at but would not wear and last well!!</blockquote>
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221278563][quote author="ipoplaya" date=1221275715][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221274933]WB costs more than CG.</blockquote>


My point exactly. It costs more because it is more highly demanded. It is more highly demanded because its considerably better...</blockquote>


Exactly. You get what you pay for. The problem I see here is people want first class for the price of coach. Even poor people have a sense of entitlement. Amazing.</blockquote>


My issue with WB and irvine in general is that you dont get what you pay for. For $1M I would expect something a lot nicer that you can get at WB
 
[quote author="Stuff It" date=1221290363][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221278563][quote author="ipoplaya" date=1221275715][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221274933]WB costs more than CG.</blockquote>


My point exactly. It costs more because it is more highly demanded. It is more highly demanded because its considerably better...</blockquote>


Exactly. You get what you pay for. The problem I see here is people want first class for the price of coach. Even poor people have a sense of entitlement. Amazing.</blockquote>


My issue with WB and irvine in general is that you dont get what you pay for. For $1M I would expect something a lot nicer that you can get at WB</blockquote>


You just proved my point. If you think it's too expensive then don't live here, you are not "entitled" to a place in Irvine. You want a "nice" place for $1 mil move to Oklahoma.
 
[quote author="ipoplaya" date=1221284025][quote author="jumpcut" date=1221282303][quote author="hs_teacher" date=1221270271]In a year or two, WB will have its own junior high too. The CG kids will have to go to school over in Woodbridge still.</blockquote>


Actually, the planned junior high for WB was cancelled about a year ago.



I'm a Woodbury homeowner and love it here. I would never even have considered CG.</blockquote>


Weird. IUSD is still showing this on their planned attendance maps for 2009 and I heard grading had already begun. Are you sure they aren't building a school at Jeffrey and Trabuco?



<img src="http://www.ipoplaya.com/wbjh.jpg" alt="" /></blockquote>
The cancellation was announced in the newsletter about a year ago. I suppose it's possible it's just been delayed, but I honestly haven't heard anything about it since then. The new elementary school, however, is a constant source of pride and conversation in Woodbury.
 
To continue this...



BK - I understand that you're looking at the layout of the neighborhood as a whole, trees, plants, home placement...



BUT...what about the actual homes, neighbors.



If you take Ciara from CG and put it by Mille Fleurs in WB, would they be around the same price?

Would you have better neighbors?



[quote author="rickhunter" date=1221286014]My fiance and I had a discussion about purses last year. Louis Vuitton, Chanel, Prada.

It seems that she does not look at it as something that holds things.

It is something that is quality and that she can be proud of.

What if I took the Louis Vuitton name off of the purse and stuck COACH on it?

Would she love it as much? probably not! It's just the name right?



On trained eyes, Paris Hilton can wear something from Target and still look better than Panda wearing

something from Saks (that wasnt a fair comparison but you know what I mean).





[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221280261]

Point is well taken. I did not use Mercedes as the analogy to Woodbury. I chose Lexus.



In your perception the difference between the communities is only between a CG and and S then you really do not know what quality really is and that is ok. Woodbury in my opinion is a Lexus IS class. It is certainly not Crystal Cove or Shady Canyon (Mercedes). You get what you pay for. A lot of consumers would not find the differnence in a Smith and Hawken at Target from the real Smith and Hawken or Michael Grave's Target line from the Allessi line. To the trained eyes there is a huge difference in both products. Columbus is "brand name sold at Target." Nice to look at but would not wear and last well!!</blockquote></blockquote>
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1221263702]In other metropolitans, being on a major street is a major plus.

</blockquote>


Woah, back up! not true. In my experience, folks would rather live a couple of blocks away from traffic and do pay a premium for it.



And in terms of the Oklahoma comment - North Irvine has always seemed like how I imagine Oklahoma to be - barren, dusty and largely free of any notable features beyond patchwork grids of ugly new construction and the dull whine of a nearby freeway. Thankfully, I've only had to imagine it, and have never been subjected to the reality of it.
 
[quote author="rickhunter" date=1221291801]To continue this...



BK - I understand that you're looking at the layout of the neighborhood as a whole, trees, plants, home placement...



BUT...what about the actual homes, neighbors.



If you take Ciara from CG and put it by Mille Fleurs in WB, would they be around the same price?

Would you have better neighbors?



[quote author="rickhunter" date=1221286014]My fiance and I had a discussion about purses last year. Louis Vuitton, Chanel, Prada.

It seems that she does not look at it as something that holds things.

It is something that is quality and that she can be proud of.

What if I took the Louis Vuitton name off of the purse and stuck COACH on it?

Would she love it as much? probably not! It's just the name right?



On trained eyes, Paris Hilton can wear something from Target and still look better than Panda wearing

something from Saks (that wasnt a fair comparison but you know what I mean).





[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221280261]

Point is well taken. I did not use Mercedes as the analogy to Woodbury. I chose Lexus.



In your perception the difference between the communities is only between a CG and and S then you really do not know what quality really is and that is ok. Woodbury in my opinion is a Lexus IS class. It is certainly not Crystal Cove or Shady Canyon (Mercedes). You get what you pay for. A lot of consumers would not find the differnence in a Smith and Hawken at Target from the real Smith and Hawken or Michael Grave's Target line from the Allessi line. To the trained eyes there is a huge difference in both products. Columbus is "brand name sold at Target." Nice to look at but would not wear and last well!!</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>


The two products although are similar but the level of architectural details and design are different. Stan Pac Mille Fleur was designed by Robert Hidey and Ciara was designed by Graph's favorite architect who also designed the Brightwater at Huntington Beach by Hearthside Homes. I do not need to describe any further about design. The Brightwater architect was so bad that he was not allowed to design projects on the Irvine Ranch for almost 10 years. Just recently the architect was allowed on the Ranch.



Mille Fleur has the extensive application of stone and exterior masonry materials while Ciara has almost none. The sidings at Ciara are fake Hardie compressed fiberboards that do not weather well.



Lyon is not the same league as Stan Pac.



When you put Ciara in Woodbury the homes would definitely worth a lot more but the wood siding and Tudor elevations would never be allowed on the Irvine Ranch.



You do get a bigger house for your money at Ciara vs Mille Fleur. The same goes for a mini van and a Porche.



The homes at Columbus do not go to the rigorous review process and quality control at the Irvine Company. It is managed by a relatively new and inexperience developer building a master planned community for the first time. Who really can get it right the first time? TIC has been building communities for many decades.



I am not against the homes in Columbus just the formula, neighborhood design and the dirt below the slab.



Neighbors are probably much more down to earth at Columbus and less pretentious than Woodbury.



I think Panda looks the best when he is wearing nothing just in his black and white fur. Paris Hilton can't spell the brands that she is wearing.



Ok I will talk about handbags. The knock offs break apart after a year while the brand bags last at least 10 years. The stitchings for brand bags are tensile strenth thread while the cheap bags are cotton and will rot when wet. Brand bags the craftsmen align patterns, grain, and textile weaving direction for adjoining panels while cheap bags used up all the material scraps and have no regard for aesthetic. The brand logo plate are nickel, 18/8 chrome, or electrically plated and lacquered while the cheap bags are sprayed. Brand bags are made in France or Italy by 5th generation craftsmen and cheap bags are made by 1st generation Chinese children.



Rule #1 never argue about handbag with your wife or fiance. When she is happy with the bag then you are happy with your life. Never switch out the brand tag because the same tag will be buried along with you in your coffin.
 
[quote author="jumpcut" date=1221291580][quote author="ipoplaya" date=1221284025][quote author="jumpcut" date=1221282303][quote author="hs_teacher" date=1221270271]In a year or two, WB will have its own junior high too. The CG kids will have to go to school over in Woodbridge still.</blockquote>


Actually, the planned junior high for WB was cancelled about a year ago.



I'm a Woodbury homeowner and love it here. I would never even have considered CG.</blockquote>


Weird. IUSD is still showing this on their planned attendance maps for 2009 and I heard grading had already begun. Are you sure they aren't building a school at Jeffrey and Trabuco?



</blockquote>
The cancellation was announced in the newsletter about a year ago. I suppose it's possible it's just been delayed, but I honestly haven't heard anything about it since then. The new elementary school, however, is a constant source of pride and conversation in Woodbury.</blockquote>


Check out this <a href="http://www.iusd.org/enrollment/documents/EnrlinfodisclosureforresidentsofWoodbury.pdf">document from IUSD website</a>. Says that the Woobury Middle School has been delayed to 2010 or as late as 2012. They didn't have a date on this pdf so I am not sure if it is the most up to date info. Hope it helps.
 
So TIC controls the look and feel of their development. You have to do what they tell you to and allow. That would explain the architect you are referring to.

Not necessarily that he is bad in designing. If you've worked for big companies, you know to do what you're told and the shit rolls downhill from there.



I certainly do not know what I'm looking at. My fiance's uncle owns the mille fleur. I've been in there and out there. I do not see anything special about them. Maybe because he hasnt decorated it to my taste? I'll go take a closer look at what you've described though.



You mention stone and exterior masonry. What do you think of the Gables in Columbus Square? Just the home please.



[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221300784]

The two products although are similar but the level of architectural details and design are different. Stan Pac Mille Fleur was designed by Robert Hidey and Ciara was designed by Graph's favorite architect who also designed the Brightwater at Huntington Beach by Hearthside Homes. I do not need to describe any further about design. The Brightwater architect was so bad that he was not allowed to design projects on the Irvine Ranch for almost 10 years. Just recently the architect was allowed on the Ranch.



Mille Fleur has the extensive application of stone and exterior masonry materials while Ciara has almost none. The sidings at Ciara are fake Hardie compressed fiberboards that do not weather well.



When you put Ciara in Woodbury the homes would definitely worth a lot more but the wood siding and Tudor elevations would never be allowed on the Irvine Ranch.



You do get a bigger house for your money at Ciara vs Mille Fleur. The same goes for a mini van and a Porche.



The homes at Columbus do not go to the rigorous review process and quality control at the Irvine Company. It is managed by a relatively new and inexperience developer building a master planned community for the first time. Who really can get it right the first time? TIC has been building communities for many decades.

</blockquote>
 
I am in the market for a home in Irvine and have some comments on Bkshopr's analysis. Honestly, he sounds like an Irvine Company employee. Let's review his complaints about Columbus Grove:



1. Proximity to power lines.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill has power lines running through it, as does The Irvine Company's Oak Creek.



2. Proximity to trash facilities.



The Irvine Company's Portola Springs, Turtle Ridge and Newport Coast developments are all in close proximity to permanent landfills. GC is merely close to a transfer station.



3. Traffic.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill is on the 5, as are Laguna Crossing, Oak Creek and Woodbridge. Their Turtle Ridge is on the 73. Their Portola Springs is on both the 133 and the 261. Their Orchard Hills is on the 261.



4. Perceived environmental concerns.



The Irvine Company's Woodbury, Woodbury East, Portola Springs, Woodbridge and Oak Creek communites are adjacent to or close enough for worry to the old El Toro base. There is real concern about plumes being under Woodbury and Woodbury East.



5. Exteriors.



The Irvine Company exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan) and fake stone. CG's exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan and 3 shades of green), fake stone and siding (depending on style of home). The Irvine Company only allows six styles of home that are all in fact one style.



6. Quality of homes.



The Irvine Company uses several of the same builders as does CG. Both developments products come with low-grade carpet, white 6-inch Dal tile and no window casing.



7. Floor plans.



The Irvine Company-approved floor plans are among the most boring I've ever seen, especially those by California Pacific Homes. On the other hand, CG has some of the most interesting products around, including Ciara, Cantara, Verandas and Kensington Court.



8. Parks, pools and clubhouses.



The Irvine Company has done well in SOME of their communities as to these features. CG has two beautiful clubhouses and 3 parks.



9. Vegetation.



The Irvine Company brings in bigger trees and day one and have impressive entrances at SOME of their communities. CG has fewer big trees on day one, but after 2 years there is no longer a noticeable difference.



All of the communties mentioned are extremely livable, but let's not be sheeple and buy the almighty Irvine Company's propoganda. Comments from snobs are insufferable enough, but comments from snobs who have no reason to be snobs are an unforgiveable offense.
 
BK, or anyone else here don't determine which area is more in demand. Even irvine company doesn't determine the ultimate transaction prices - the mass consumers / buyers determine that.



We can all argue CG is better or as good as woodbury, etc, at this point, MARKET FORCES, NOT Irvine company, or BK have determined that woodbury in general is a better community then CG.
 
[quote author="IrvineRealtor" date=1221385829]I wholeheartedly agree IS. I'm really tired of hearing the things bk has to say. How am I supposed to make a living?</blockquote>


maybe you should start telling your clients that why CG is such a better community then Woodbury, and it is a lot cheaper! They should jump on it!
 
[quote author="IrvineShopper" date=1221375191]I am in the market for a home in Irvine and have some comments on Bkshopr's analysis. Honestly, he sounds like an Irvine Company employee. Let's review his complaints about Columbus Grove:



1. Proximity to power lines.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill has power lines running through it, as does The Irvine Company's Oak Creek.



2. Proximity to trash facilities.



The Irvine Company's Portola Springs, Turtle Ridge and Newport Coast developments are all in close proximity to permanent landfills. GC is merely close to a transfer station.



3. Traffic.



The Irvine Company's Quail Hill is on the 5, as are Laguna Crossing, Oak Creek and Woodbridge. Their Turtle Ridge is on the 73. Their Portola Springs is on both the 133 and the 261. Their Orchard Hills is on the 261.



4. Perceived environmental concerns.



The Irvine Company's Woodbury, Woodbury East, Portola Springs, Woodbridge and Oak Creek communites are adjacent to or close enough for worry to the old El Toro base. There is real concern about plumes being under Woodbury and Woodbury East.



5. Exteriors.



The Irvine Company exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan) and fake stone. CG's exterior materials include stucco (in 12 shades of tan and 3 shades of green), fake stone and siding (depending on style of home). The Irvine Company only allows six styles of home that are all in fact one style.



6. Quality of homes.



The Irvine Company uses several of the same builders as does CG. Both developments products come with low-grade carpet, white 6-inch Dal tile and no window casing.



7. Floor plans.



The Irvine Company-approved floor plans are among the most boring I've ever seen, especially those by California Pacific Homes. On the other hand, CG has some of the most interesting products around, including Ciara, Cantara, Verandas and Kensington Court.



8. Parks, pools and clubhouses.



The Irvine Company has done well in SOME of their communities as to these features. CG has two beautiful clubhouses and 3 parks.



9. Vegetation.



The Irvine Company brings in bigger trees and day one and have impressive entrances at SOME of their communities. CG has fewer big trees on day one, but after 2 years there is no longer a noticeable difference.



All of the communties mentioned are extremely livable, but let's not be sheeple and buy the almighty Irvine Company's propoganda. Comments from snobs are insufferable enough, but comments from snobs who have no reason to be snobs are an unforgiveable offense.</blockquote>


I guess buyers are stupid enough to buyin the "propoganda", and offer Woodbury a high premium during the bubble, and even higher premium now! At least the "snobs" understand the basics of economics. Congradulation for being the only smart one in the room! that must feel good!
 
>>>The Irvine Company?s Quail Hill is on the 5, as are Laguna Crossing, Oak Creek and Woodbridge. Their Turtle Ridge is on the 73. Their Portola Springs is on both the 133 and the 261. Their Orchard Hills is on the 261.





Nope. I don't think Quail Hill is on the 5. You should check your location
 
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