2010 Woodbury/WB East New Home Collection

[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1256260400]I want to do some efficiency ratings using bk's awesome sf bible from this thread (<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewreply/132551/">http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewreply/132551/</a>):



Sonoma Plan 3

4/5br 3ba + Cal/Obs Room 2622sf (not sure how much sf the Obs option adds)

bk sf: 2300

2300 / 2622 = 88% B+



This makes sense as they are trying to make bigger areas and the interior of the Sonomas should be huge because my former house was ~2500 sf, had 5 br (one downstairs) and separate living, family, dining and nook.</blockquote>


More chips=lower value ratio.



Why build a smaller house with a bigger yard? The sale price premium for a bigger yard is too little compared to selling more footage.



In addition to efficiency ratio you should also look at FAR (floor area ratio). (Footage+garage)/lot size. 40% is average for tract communities and anything higher means there is not enough of yard, open space and distance between homes. A community would feel and look dense. From a financial perspective the developer would want this number as high as possible.



To give you a sense of what this ratio mean by examples:





Oakknoll 10%

San Marino 12%

Floral Park 15%

Shady Canyon 28%

Woodbridge 30%

Northwood Pointe 35%

Northpark 40%

Balboa Island 50%

Manhattan Beach 55%
 
[quote author="Matchbox" date=1256115090][quote author="bkshopr" date=1256113523][quote author="Matchbox" date=1256086605]Heres another one of the backyard of the three houses in Montecito.</blockquote>


Is it an optical illusion? The single story at the back is very close to the rear yard wall. Then where are the yards? Can the Woodbury Paparazzi verify the approximate distance from the back of the house to the block wall shown in the photo?</blockquote>


I'd guess 10 feet from property line to exterior wall.</blockquote>


Walked by the site this morning. The rear yard is about 10-12 deep cross the rear but there is a larger yard pocket at the corner. For outdoor entertaining it should be sufficient.



People live inside their home and especially in Irvine. The inside has a lot to offer and the sensitivity to storage and home crafts/office is good. For outdoor enjoyment residents would walk over to the pocket parks.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1256274494][quote author="Matchbox" date=1256115090][quote author="bkshopr" date=1256113523][quote author="Matchbox" date=1256086605]Heres another one of the backyard of the three houses in Montecito.</blockquote>


Is it an optical illusion? The single story at the back is very close to the rear yard wall. Then where are the yards? Can the Woodbury Paparazzi verify the approximate distance from the back of the house to the block wall shown in the photo?</blockquote>


I'd guess 10 feet from property line to exterior wall.</blockquote>


Walked by the site this morning. The rear yard is about 10-12 deep cross the rear but there is a larger yard pocket at the corner. For outdoor entertaining it should be sufficient.



People live inside their home and especially in Irvine. The inside has a lot to offer and the sensitivity to storage and home crafts/office is good. For outdoor enjoyment residents would walk over to the pocket parks.</blockquote>


Why would people in Irvine, of all place, would live inside their homes. Weather is awesome year round, what can people be asking for?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1256264600]Why build a smaller house with a bigger yard? The sale price premium for a bigger yard is too little compared to selling more footage. </blockquote>


Understood, however, for me it's a deal breaker..I need a yard of some sort otherwise it's a no-no



[quote author="bkshopr" date=1256264600]In addition to efficiency ratio you should also look at FAR (floor area ratio). (Footage+garage)/lot size. 40% is average for tract communities and anything higher means there is not enough of yard, open space and distance between homes. A community would feel and look dense. From a financial perspective the developer would want this number as high as possible.



To give you a sense of what this ratio mean by examples:





Oakknoll 10%

San Marino 12%

Floral Park 15%

Shady Canyon 28%

Woodbridge 30%

Northwood Pointe 35%

Northpark 40%

Balboa Island 50%

Manhattan Beach 55%</blockquote>


Great insight, I'll keep that in mind in the future.
 
If they built Sonoma in a different location (say like Laguna Crossings) I would think about pulling the trigger.



I prefer to be closer to the 405 I guess (especially if I'm going to sacrifice my 3WCG).
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1256274494][quote author="Matchbox" date=1256115090][quote author="bkshopr" date=1256113523][quote author="Matchbox" date=1256086605]Heres another one of the backyard of the three houses in Montecito.</blockquote>


Is it an optical illusion? The single story at the back is very close to the rear yard wall. Then where are the yards? Can the Woodbury Paparazzi verify the approximate distance from the back of the house to the block wall shown in the photo?</blockquote>


I'd guess 10 feet from property line to exterior wall.</blockquote>


Walked by the site this morning. The rear yard is about 10-12 deep cross the rear but there is a larger yard pocket at the corner. For outdoor entertaining it should be sufficient.



People live inside their home and especially in Irvine. The inside has a lot to offer and the sensitivity to storage and home crafts/office is good. For outdoor enjoyment residents would walk over to the pocket parks.</blockquote>


This seems likely true that people stay in their houses in the majority of Irvine neighborhoods, but in Woodbury there seems to always constant activity in the neighborhood streets. I'm out walking as late as 12 am and I always see people out strolling around. During the day on weekends, every glance at the window, there is always someone walking/ biking/skating by. More so in the inner core....I usually walk the dog in the Cypress Square: Villa Rosa/ Portisol neighborhood at times I want to avoid running into people.
 
<blockquote>People live inside their home and especially in Irvine. The inside has a lot to offer and the sensitivity to storage and home crafts/office is good. For outdoor enjoyment residents would walk over to the pocket parks.</blockquote></blockquote>


Residents of Montecito and Carmel lack their own pocket park. This site is also walled off with one entrance taken off of Great Lawn, divided from the rest of the community by Vintage, which is a large arterial street in Woodbury. By the nature of it's geography and planning, it feels separated. Their closest pocket park is called Coral Tree Square about 200 yds away, but I doubt that residents of M and C will feel the convenience in using them. They will also hold the prize for lugging their Trader Joes Bags the greatest distance.... though I saw an Asian grandma lugging hers through the gates of Northwood II once.
 
[quote author="Matchbox" date=1256297890]



This seems likely true that people stay in their houses in the majority of Irvine neighborhoods, but in Woodbury there seems to always constant activity in the neighborhood streets. I'm out walking as late as 12 am and I always see people out strolling around. During the day on weekends, every glance at the window, there is always someone walking/ biking/skating by. More so in the inner core....I usually walk the dog in the Cypress Square: Villa Rosa/ Portisol neighborhood at times I want to avoid running into people.</blockquote>


I agree, WB is definitely a walking neighborhood way more so than the other Irvine neighborhoods. There are always lots of people on walks after work, runners, people using the parks, pools, and walking to/from the town center. The openness from all the undeveloped land also helps, but we'll see how that will change when WB gets fully built out.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1256264600][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1256260400]I want to do some efficiency ratings using bk's awesome sf bible from this thread (<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewreply/132551/">http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewreply/132551/</a>):



Sonoma Plan 3

4/5br 3ba + Cal/Obs Room 2622sf (not sure how much sf the Obs option adds)

bk sf: 2300

2300 / 2622 = 88% B+



This makes sense as they are trying to make bigger areas and the interior of the Sonomas should be huge because my former house was ~2500 sf, had 5 br (one downstairs) and separate living, family, dining and nook.</blockquote>


More chips=lower value ratio.



Why build a smaller house with a bigger yard? The sale price premium for a bigger yard is too little compared to selling more footage.



In addition to efficiency ratio you should also look at FAR (floor area ratio). (Footage+garage)/lot size. 40% is average for tract communities and anything higher means there is not enough of yard, open space and distance between homes. A community would feel and look dense. From a financial perspective the developer would want this number as high as possible.



To give you a sense of what this ratio mean by examples:





Oakknoll 10%

San Marino 12%

Floral Park 15%

Shady Canyon 28%

Woodbridge 30%

Northwood Pointe 35%

Northpark 40%

Balboa Island 50%

Manhattan Beach 55%</blockquote>


My Riverside house, when first built, had a ratio of about 10-12%. It's been added on twice since then, so the current ratio is closer to 28-30%.
 
[quote author="pleasantville0001" date=1256309066][quote author="Matchbox" date=1256297890]



This seems likely true that people stay in their houses in the majority of Irvine neighborhoods, but in Woodbury there seems to always constant activity in the neighborhood streets. I'm out walking as late as 12 am and I always see people out strolling around. During the day on weekends, every glance at the window, there is always someone walking/ biking/skating by. More so in the inner core....I usually walk the dog in the Cypress Square: Villa Rosa/ Portisol neighborhood at times I want to avoid running into people.</blockquote>


I agree, WB is definitely a walking neighborhood way more so than the other Irvine neighborhoods. There are always lots of people on walks after work, runners, people using the parks, pools, and walking to/from the town center. The openness from all the undeveloped land also helps, but we'll see how that will change when WB gets fully built out.</blockquote>


I think WB is walkable more so because of the juxtaposition of density and open space in the overall planning and the good amount trees. In the core area surrounding the commons, streets are landscaped with a variety of shady trees depending on the neighborhood theme. I believe trees to be the best kind loggia/california room there can be. In addition, the pocket parks offer a visual/ physical break from the typical repetition of the street, so along a walking route you feel that there is an the option to duck into them for a respite.



Secondarily significant is that the garages are positioned in the rear, so the homes bring about a more of a human scale in its street facade. There is a noticeable difference in WB street activity between areas of rear access vs front access garages. (This also has to do whether the homes are positioned in the core or the perimeter of the neighborhood of course.)



If the newer developments follow the same theme, I think it will contribute to even more life in the streets.



As with what pleantville0001 mentioned, we will have to wait until WB gets built out. TIC has been attempting to cut corners by eliminating pocket parks in the new developments as demonstrated in the sudden disappearance of Pear Tree Garden. Sonoma and La Casella seems to be laid out in a fashion rooted to the original masterplan. Montecito and Carmel does not. I would call M and C the orphans....(analogous to the Shea's Reserve in Floral Park)
 
[quote author="Matchbox" date=1256338894][quote author="pleasantville0001" date=1256309066][quote author="Matchbox" date=1256297890]



This seems likely true that people stay in their houses in the majority of Irvine neighborhoods, but in Woodbury there seems to always constant activity in the neighborhood streets. I'm out walking as late as 12 am and I always see people out strolling around. During the day on weekends, every glance at the window, there is always someone walking/ biking/skating by. More so in the inner core....I usually walk the dog in the Cypress Square: Villa Rosa/ Portisol neighborhood at times I want to avoid running into people.</blockquote>


I agree, WB is definitely a walking neighborhood way more so than the other Irvine neighborhoods. There are always lots of people on walks after work, runners, people using the parks, pools, and walking to/from the town center. The openness from all the undeveloped land also helps, but we'll see how that will change when WB gets fully built out.</blockquote>


I think WB is walkable more so because of the juxtaposition of density and open space in the overall planning and the good amount trees. In the core area surrounding the commons, streets are landscaped with a variety of shady trees depending on the neighborhood theme. I believe trees to be the best kind loggia/california room there can be. In addition, the pocket parks offer a visual/ physical break from the typical repetition of the street, so along a walking route you feel that there is an the option to duck into them for a respite.



Secondarily significant is that the garages are positioned in the rear, so the homes bring about a more of a human scale in its street facade. There is a noticeable difference in WB street activity between areas of rear access vs front access garages. (This also has to do whether the homes are positioned in the core or the perimeter of the neighborhood of course.)



If the newer developments follow the same theme, I think it will contribute to even more life in the streets.



As with what pleantville0001 mentioned, we will have to wait until WB gets built out. TIC has been attempting to cut corners by eliminating pocket parks in the new developments as demonstrated in the sudden disappearance of Pear Tree Garden. Sonoma and La Casella seems to be laid out in a fashion rooted to the original masterplan. Montecito and Carmel does not. I would call M and C the orphans....(analogous to the Shea's Reserve in Floral Park)</blockquote>


I think you see alot of people walking for 2 main reasons: New home buyers are usually younger therefore more active & with the commons being at the center of everything and within walking distance, you get more people waling to/from there.
 
[quote author="Matchbox" date=1256338894][quote author="pleasantville0001" date=1256309066][quote author="Matchbox" date=1256297890]



This seems likely true that people stay in their houses in the majority of Irvine neighborhoods, but in Woodbury there seems to always constant activity in the neighborhood streets. I'm out walking as late as 12 am and I always see people out strolling around. During the day on weekends, every glance at the window, there is always someone walking/ biking/skating by. More so in the inner core....I usually walk the dog in the Cypress Square: Villa Rosa/ Portisol neighborhood at times I want to avoid running into people.</blockquote>


I agree, WB is definitely a walking neighborhood way more so than the other Irvine neighborhoods. There are always lots of people on walks after work, runners, people using the parks, pools, and walking to/from the town center. The openness from all the undeveloped land also helps, but we'll see how that will change when WB gets fully built out.</blockquote>


I think WB is walkable more so because of the juxtaposition of density and open space in the overall planning and the good amount trees. In the core area surrounding the commons, streets are landscaped with a variety of shady trees depending on the neighborhood theme. I believe trees to be the best kind loggia/california room there can be. In addition, the pocket parks offer a visual/ physical break from the typical repetition of the street, so along a walking route you feel that there is an the option to duck into them for a respite.



Secondarily significant is that the garages are positioned in the rear, so the homes bring about a more of a human scale in its street facade. There is a noticeable difference in WB street activity between areas of rear access vs front access garages. (This also has to do whether the homes are positioned in the core or the perimeter of the neighborhood of course.)



If the newer developments follow the same theme, I think it will contribute to even more life in the streets.



As with what pleantville0001 mentioned, we will have to wait until WB gets built out. TIC has been attempting to cut corners by eliminating pocket parks in the new developments as demonstrated in the sudden disappearance of Pear Tree Garden. Sonoma and La Casella seems to be laid out in a fashion rooted to the original master-plan. Montecito and Carmel does not. I would call M and C the orphans....(analogous to the Shea's Reserve in Floral Park)</blockquote>


The idea of Woodbury is an ancient one. It is set up like the Forbidden city isolating it from the city by walls. However once you enter into the mile squared fortress All homes and their front doors greet all internal streets. The east side of Woodbury some refer to as Harlem with the transient type apartment housings where any stranger who could make deposit and afford a year of rent officially becomes a Woodbury resident.





The neighborhood of Montecito and Carmel is in a walled in neighborhood within an already walled in community. In term of analyzing its syntax and vocabulary. The second layer of walls in concept is elevating their class to the aristocrats as in a medieval town.



Many of these ancient towns have defensive walls to guard against intruders. The farmers homes inside the first layer boundary walls were oriented to the open crop fields and vineyards. The land barons have their home well fortressed with additional walls.



My perception of this neighborhood is set up to be the elitist class of Woodbury having their own private walled in enclaves away from the rest of town.



Irvine buyers would like this set up because this elevates the snobbish appeal and identity the upper caste home owners status.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1256352627]My perception of this neighborhood is set up to be the elitist class of Woodbury having their own private walled in enclaves away from the rest of town.



Irvine buyers would like this set up because this elevates the snobbish appeal and identity the upper caste home owners status.</blockquote>


That's awesome!



+1 to BK!
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1256352627]





The idea of Woodbury is an ancient one. It is set up like the Forbidden city isolating it from the city by walls. However once you enter into the mile squared fortress All homes and their front doors greet all internal streets. The east side of Woodbury some refer to as Harlem with the transient type apartment housings where any stranger who could make deposit and afford a year of rent officially becomes a Woodbury resident.





The neighborhood of Montecito and Carmel is in a walled in neighborhood within an already walled in community. In term of analyzing its syntax and vocabulary. The second layer of walls in concept is elevating their class to the aristocrats as in a medieval town.



Many of these ancient towns have defensive walls to guard against intruders. The farmers homes inside the first layer boundary walls were oriented to the open crop fields and vineyards. The land barons have their home well fortressed with additional walls.



My perception of this neighborhood is set up to be the elitist class of Woodbury having their own private walled in enclaves away from the rest of town.



Irvine buyers would like this set up because this elevates the snobbish appeal and identity the upper caste home owners status.</blockquote>


LMAO BK! It would be so true if it weren't that Carm & Monty leave their backs completely open to Jeffery Rd. (Thank you Irvine Planning Commissioners for preventing the wall to be built up against JOST.) They would be the frontline casualties of foreign invaders (or the 1 homeless guy on JOST, tough to decide what is worse), while providing another reinforcing wall to the Forbidden City.
 
Hey, be quiet! For people driving on Jeffrey if they don't live there they have no idea that there is no wall on that edge. I told my buddy Spirit when he uses the public showers at Woodbury show some respect by not peeing in the shower stalls.



The perception of safety is important for Irvine. Irvine is still the safest city in the US. Aside from the homeless guys living in JOST and the cold case murder in Trabuco Groves Jeffrey is relatively safe and there is nothing to worry about. When there is an increase in the population by increasing the denominator of a ratio equation the crime percentages will become infinitesimally smaller mathematically.



A way to combat the homeless living in JOST in to have the landscape sprinklers on a timer every 30 minute cycle. The shelter structure should also have sprinkler lines to wet the entire space as well during the middle of the night. The only problem is drowning the drought resistant vegetation and wasteful of water defeating the eco friendly approach for development.



The idea of fronting homes off JOST is to discourage homeless from living there by providing homeowners surveillance over the stretch. Homeless also found the opportunity to use the shower and bath facility for personal grooming. I think in the next two months the political power of Irvine will evict Spirit's home on counts of loitering and trespassing. They will probably drive him over to VOC and drop him off there.



To eliminate the homeless problem the Goodwill donation center by the carpool parking lot has to be eliminated. Merchants in the Arbor Center must not feed them. Unfortunately the Arbor center is minority owned.
 
Could it be possible that TIC might take down those walls that separate Montecito from the street. It was originally there because of planning for the middle school but now that they've decided to put homes there, I can see them taking those out and making it accessible to the road ala Villa Rosa cul-de-sacs.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1256366668]Could it be possible that TIC might take down those walls that separate Montecito from the street. It was originally there because of planning for the middle school but now that they've decided to put homes there, I can see them taking those out and making it accessible to the road ala Villa Rosa cul-de-sacs.</blockquote>
Eh?! They just put up this wall recently. It used to be a chain link fence with a green tarp covering. There was a wall on Long Meadow but on Vintage the wall was built within the last month or 2....
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1256386312]I think you're right... maybe they can pull a Northpark Square and make it a sub-gated community... heh.</blockquote>


I don't think it was ever TIC intention to make this a sub-gated community. I think the closest neighborhood that comes to an "sub-zone exclusivity" is Juliet's Balcony, buffered by an arterial road with landscaped median (Vintage), and Olive Grove Square Park, but no walls were used to divide it from the rest of WB. JB has real CDSs with wide sidewalks, frontyards, and real driveways with homes that exceed 4000sf.



Montecito's resultant layout was primarily directed on how many houses they could fit into this plot of land given their program, and the walls are there to provide a side/ rear yard definition for the homes, not as a security wall. Overall I think its more visually pleasing for the Treo residents across the street to look over at a buffer of vegetation with the wall beyond rather than Montecito's shared asphalt motorcourts were there no wall there at all.
 
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