What went wrong?
- Thread starter irvinehomeshopper
- Start date
momopi
Well-known member
As of late 1980s Garden Grove still had thriving Korean community, while the Vietnamese were in Westminster. From 1990s to 2000's the Vietnamese slowly moved into Garden Grove and the Koreans moved out to Buena Park and later Fullerton.
The ex-Hughes aircraft facility on Melvern in Fullerton was turned into The Amerige Heights community and is very popular with Koreans. Back in 2000 there was huge debate in Fullerton about this development. I lived next to it for years and almost bought a condo at Amerige Heights, but ended up buying in Irvine and Placentia instead.
How the race finger pointing games work: in Malaysia the ethnic Chinese and Indians blame Malays for being lazy, and the Malays in turn blame Indonesian workers for all the crime. Chinese owned newspapers blast any hints of discrimination against Chinese and Malay owned newspapers put Indonesian guest worker crimes on front page.
In Westminster and Garden Grove the Whites blames Asians for ruining their community. The Koreans in turn blame Vietnamese for ruining Garden Grove and run away to Buena Park and Fullerton. Amerige Heights further divides the "good" parts of Fullerton (the hills) to the North and the "bad" parts to the South (below Commonwealth).
Irvine in 1980s was not populated by lots of Taiwanese immigrants who "start from scratch". Many Taiwanese families that moved to Irvine in 1980s were well to do and you have the mom and kids here and dad working in TW. I personally knew a few Irvine families from big name food and condiment companies in TW, my cousin was engaged to one. However back then signs of wealth was giant satellite dish in backyard (out of view) and Volvo's in the drive way. They lived in nice big houses but they weren't ugly McMansions. Irvine homes back then were reasonably sized and affordable. We almost bought a new SFR for $140k'ish in 1989.
However, today Irvine build lots of million dollar McMansions on stamp sized lots, caters to wealthy FOB's who buy with cash and give their kids $100k cars. They give the impression that immigrants from Mainland are all filthy rich, yet all the poorer mainland immigrants working at the restaurants for minimum wage are invisible to them. Back in college I had TW classmate who left $100 tip at Denny's and Mainlander classmate who was poor and did not own a PC, and asked to borrow mine and studied into late evenings. Mainlanders didn't become successful solely from corruption or wealthy parents, many of them simply worked harder than their East Asian counterparts.
Do not be concerned with "rich kids" who leave $100 tips to impress a waitress. With those types wealth doesn't last 3 generations (or less). Be concerned about is people (immigrants or not) who are hungrier for success than you and are willing to work harder -- much harder for sake of working. If the "live to work" types become prevalent in your office, you can expect long hours for lower pay and reduction in quality of life. If you work to live, you will suffocate in that environment.
The ex-Hughes aircraft facility on Melvern in Fullerton was turned into The Amerige Heights community and is very popular with Koreans. Back in 2000 there was huge debate in Fullerton about this development. I lived next to it for years and almost bought a condo at Amerige Heights, but ended up buying in Irvine and Placentia instead.
How the race finger pointing games work: in Malaysia the ethnic Chinese and Indians blame Malays for being lazy, and the Malays in turn blame Indonesian workers for all the crime. Chinese owned newspapers blast any hints of discrimination against Chinese and Malay owned newspapers put Indonesian guest worker crimes on front page.
In Westminster and Garden Grove the Whites blames Asians for ruining their community. The Koreans in turn blame Vietnamese for ruining Garden Grove and run away to Buena Park and Fullerton. Amerige Heights further divides the "good" parts of Fullerton (the hills) to the North and the "bad" parts to the South (below Commonwealth).
Irvine in 1980s was not populated by lots of Taiwanese immigrants who "start from scratch". Many Taiwanese families that moved to Irvine in 1980s were well to do and you have the mom and kids here and dad working in TW. I personally knew a few Irvine families from big name food and condiment companies in TW, my cousin was engaged to one. However back then signs of wealth was giant satellite dish in backyard (out of view) and Volvo's in the drive way. They lived in nice big houses but they weren't ugly McMansions. Irvine homes back then were reasonably sized and affordable. We almost bought a new SFR for $140k'ish in 1989.
However, today Irvine build lots of million dollar McMansions on stamp sized lots, caters to wealthy FOB's who buy with cash and give their kids $100k cars. They give the impression that immigrants from Mainland are all filthy rich, yet all the poorer mainland immigrants working at the restaurants for minimum wage are invisible to them. Back in college I had TW classmate who left $100 tip at Denny's and Mainlander classmate who was poor and did not own a PC, and asked to borrow mine and studied into late evenings. Mainlanders didn't become successful solely from corruption or wealthy parents, many of them simply worked harder than their East Asian counterparts.
Do not be concerned with "rich kids" who leave $100 tips to impress a waitress. With those types wealth doesn't last 3 generations (or less). Be concerned about is people (immigrants or not) who are hungrier for success than you and are willing to work harder -- much harder for sake of working. If the "live to work" types become prevalent in your office, you can expect long hours for lower pay and reduction in quality of life. If you work to live, you will suffocate in that environment.
momopi
Well-known member
Panda said:
In 1980s I used to visit a Korean family restaurant in Garden Grove with my father and his coworkers. It was a popular little place and had great food. They gave large pieces of (raw) spicy crab in their banchan and we'd always pack it to go and use it to cook seafood udon at home.
Fast forward to present day, the restaurant is gone and that entire little plaza is filled with Vietnamese massage parlors.
The Peking Chinese-Korean restaurant is still there, and worth a visit if you like old school joints:http://www.yelp.com/biz/peking-gourmet-garden-grove
So your point in all of this is too many foreign people ruin neighborhoods? So why live in great park (which you've touted and actually where I'm moving to) or anywhere else in Irvine...you should just follow white people everywhere? Are there any other case scenarios here?
I'm going to follow a bunch of white people to some small mountain town in Alabama. My kids will get guaranteed ivy admission if they survive.
I'm presuming you have a master answer for the difference between the two and the real reason GG went in the tubes. I do agree with you, diversity is a good thing (economic, socio, race) and healthy thing for an area and given the job hub that is here (which isn't just for asian people), I'm going to guess there will still be a good chunk of white people in Irvine.
When I was at GP this weekend, I actually was surprised at how diverse the crowd was touring the models. That included seeing some people moving into Torrey or Legend (not sure which).
My overall counter is what someone else mentioned, first generation vs. second generation differs significantly and while Irvine might have FCBs as you all call them (and no, not all of them are corrupt people, etc...way too overgeneralized here). Either way, there are a lot of second and third generation asian people who are just as American as a white person. In fact, I actually think Irvine and how people have assimilated is a pretty great success!!!
By the way, IHS, unrelated topic, but do you know when the second park in BP is going to be added and whether the new pool will have water features for kids (I've heard mixed answers for the various builders and from the main people at the clubhouse area). Any word on the size of the retail center going in?
I'm going to follow a bunch of white people to some small mountain town in Alabama. My kids will get guaranteed ivy admission if they survive.
I'm presuming you have a master answer for the difference between the two and the real reason GG went in the tubes. I do agree with you, diversity is a good thing (economic, socio, race) and healthy thing for an area and given the job hub that is here (which isn't just for asian people), I'm going to guess there will still be a good chunk of white people in Irvine.
When I was at GP this weekend, I actually was surprised at how diverse the crowd was touring the models. That included seeing some people moving into Torrey or Legend (not sure which).
My overall counter is what someone else mentioned, first generation vs. second generation differs significantly and while Irvine might have FCBs as you all call them (and no, not all of them are corrupt people, etc...way too overgeneralized here). Either way, there are a lot of second and third generation asian people who are just as American as a white person. In fact, I actually think Irvine and how people have assimilated is a pretty great success!!!
By the way, IHS, unrelated topic, but do you know when the second park in BP is going to be added and whether the new pool will have water features for kids (I've heard mixed answers for the various builders and from the main people at the clubhouse area). Any word on the size of the retail center going in?
Thanks. We cringe at the thought of the taxes, but do look forward to having a bigger house (vs. what we have) and a nice size lot. I really don't understand why the builders didn't come out with lower prices to start (and to build momentum). Odd when you are buying at below phase 1 pricing. Now I just have to hope the markets don't crash, haha.qwerty said:
That said, like most of Irvine, seems like a great place for our kids to grow up (look forward to riding my orange bike on the bike trails with the lil ones). ]I was surprised at how minimal the disclosures were regarding the base (which I took as a good sign). I think when I almost bought in OH, the disclosures had more info about "hazards" than the BP one's did.
timandjess
New member
Instead of GG, I'm more worried Irvine becoming the next Rowland Heights.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Bullsback made the right choice... as I posted in other thread, BP's layout, lots, and home designs are better than any of the TIC hoods (in my opinion).
panda
Well-known member
In my investment research for real estate, I would say that demographics trends : population and job growth, household income, and ethnic migration are among the top 3 things I look at when predicting capital appreciation. I learned how to study the Asian migration trends from the master, BKshopr.
Irvinecommuter
New member
TJinOH said:
Irvine is completely different than Rowland Heights...Irvine is closer to Arcadia. Irvine also has a lot more jobs than either Arcadia or RH.
Panda said:In my investment research for real estate, I would say that demographics trends : population and job growth, household income, and ethnic migration are among the top 3 things I look at when predicting capital appreciation. I learned how to study the Asian migration trends from the master, BKshopr.
Love seeing the mention of the master, BKshopr! Well Done.
irvinehomeshopper
Well-known member
I am totally aware of the heavy influx of immigrants. Their trail is nothing but destruction and undesirable environment. Hacienda Hts, Rowland Heights, Arcadia, Monterey Park, Temple City, Rosemead, Brea, Diamond Bar, Chino Hills are just a few of the examples that are less desirable than 15 year ago. Both GG and Westminster are just the same even FV and a part of HB are undesirable.
As much as possible I go out of the way to design architectural styles and lifestyle floor plans that appeal to the white, Indians, middle easterners and well assimilated Asians. Ellwood I deliberately designed to the diversities. The cottages are not the FCB style. FCBs love the Sbrenish styles. I am interested in a balanced demographic and I will deliberately position the stairs and powder near the front door to ward off FCBs. At other locations I will design a loft overlooking a IHO volume space just for the FCBs.
As much as possible I go out of the way to design architectural styles and lifestyle floor plans that appeal to the white, Indians, middle easterners and well assimilated Asians. Ellwood I deliberately designed to the diversities. The cottages are not the FCB style. FCBs love the Sbrenish styles. I am interested in a balanced demographic and I will deliberately position the stairs and powder near the front door to ward off FCBs. At other locations I will design a loft overlooking a IHO volume space just for the FCBs.
irvinehomeshopper
Well-known member
Property increased value does not mean the place is desirable. Highland Park and Lincoln Heights properties went up 3x from 15 years ago. Both are not desirable place to be. It is perception and emotion.
paydawg said: