sleepy5136
Well-known member
Looks like base price will start at 2.9m.
The Meadows, Lake Forest by Toll Brothers
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The Sequoia floor plans are nearly identical to the Evergreen floor plans, though the Sequoias are on much larger lots, are much closer to Bake and Rancho Parkway, and further from the clubhouse & pool.
The last few Evergreen resales were
$2.86M on April 26th 2024 (https://www.redfin.com/CA/Lake-Forest/140-Royal-92630/home/190317030)
$2.77M on April 15th 2024 (https://www.redfin.com/CA/Lake-Forest/201-Royal-92630/home/189588921)
$2.82M on April 1st 2024 (https://www.redfin.com/CA/Lake-Forest/180-Riverbend-92630/home/182269921)
There are currently 4 Evergreen floor plans for resale with asking prices between $2.8M to $3.0M that have been on the market between 6 and 61 days as of now.
It seems like resale price increases have stalled.
It'll be many months until any Sequoias are ready to sell. They're still grading the tract. No streets or utilities yet. Who knows what the market will pay by the time they're ready to transact.
www.tollbrothers.com
Another large portion of the resale in the Meadows are flips and/or barely lived in houses. I suspect these were investors looking to make a quick profit (judging by the prices they paid vs what they're selling at, they will have achieved this goal) and/or do some laundry. For better or worse, TB sold many of the later phase houses to FCBs.
1) The Meadows cannot prevent access to it's public parks from sun up to sun down, so gates will have to be open during those times, thereby defeating any perceived protection during those hours.
2) The final neighborhood plan that was sold to homeowners was ungated, which (A) means there will be significant modification required on the at least three gate locations - various impact studies, permits, lane modifications, sidewalk modifications, divider modifications, etc. It will be quite costly and construction will be disruptive. (B) Everyone bought into a non-gated community, likely with the expectation that it would continue to be ungated.
3) The homeowners will have to pay a significant special assessment to fund the construction. 4 to 5 figures depending on the final designs.
4) The recurring HOA dues will rise to fund the maintenance and reserve (for the inevitable major overhaul or replacement) of the gates
5) The recurring HOA dues will rise further and quite significantly if personnel is placed on site to operate the gate(s). This can add hundreds of dollars to each homeowner's monthly HOA dues.
6) Gates can be disruptive and inconvenient - ex they malfunction, letting guests in requires extra coordination, they can create traffic congestion, often the access code gets passed around to non residents thereby defeating some actual security.
7) There is almost no crime to speak of at The Meadows. Over the last 1.5 years or so, there's been the occasional package theft, apparently a dispute between a homeowner and contractor that led to the contractor vandalizing the homeowner's property, a driver did a donut in an intersection in the middle of the night that ended up pushing some mulch out of place (and probably damaging the car as it went up & down the curb), and a homeowner allegedly operated his car under the influence within the neighborhood and did some damage to the asphalt and his car.
8) Further on the crime issue, The Meadows is less than a mile from two major OC Sheriff hubs - the OC Sheriff department and Lake Forest City Hall. That is quite a serious deterrent to criminals.
9) 3 of the 5 HOA board seats are occupied by Toll Brothers until 2026. Highly unlikely that any TB representatives will vote to force a 4 to 5 figure special assessment and add hundreds to the monthly HOA dues while they're trying to sell their Sequoia tract.
10) Further to the point of the rise in HOA dues required to fund the operation and maintenance of a gate, a larger cost of ownership in The Meadows will, in isolation and by necessity, have a negative impact on the price a buyer can afford to pay for the house.
I've heard the gate is an idea being pushed by some very bored, irrational, and misguided residents with too much free time. It's completely unnecessary, not part of the planned neighborhood people bought into, and a poor allocation of resources. But ask me how I really feel
Gated is nice, but not worth it. Just walk around the neighborhood in Parkside and tell me it's as nice as Baker Ranch or the Meadows.
I have some friends who live at The Meadows. From conversations with them and my own observations
1) It's a diverse neighborhood, in a good way. The residents include young professionals, families with children aged young to old, empty nesters, and multigeneration families. Plenty of English speakers and a fair mix of non English speakers.
2) I would guess it's more owner occupied than renter. Maybe 70/30 or 80/20.
3) The final phases sold are more frequently investors or non-English speakers, especially the most expensive units.
4) The clubhouse & pool are awesome. Plenty of spaces for groups to hang out together (or for people to have some personal space), 2 pools (one of which a "zero entry" pool), 2 spas, plenty of seating, and a large indoor multi purpose space that can be rented for a few hundred dollars.
5) A variety of small parks that are fun for young kids, especially age 5+. The Parkside play structure is a fun one. The Redwood play structure is almost always empty - kids & parents don't seem to like that one. I forget the name of the park at Brackens/Midwick, but that one isn't very popular either.
6) People are friendly. The social events have had pretty good turn outs. Lots of families there. There's a fair amount of residents that are socially reserved too. All kinds are welcome.
7) The access to commercial stores is convenient. Foothill Town Center has Ralphs, Target, movie theater, fast food of all kinds, casual dining, medical services, fitness centers. The Home Depot across the street comes in handy. There's plenty of preschools in all directions. There's a few good coffee shops (Bodhi coffee and Blue Hummingbird) nearby. Costco is about 10 minutes down Alton.
8) The access to walking trails is nice. Baker ranch has a nice park within driving distance. The Lake Forest Sports park is also just down the street.
9) It's not Irvine, which means you will find many unique family owned food to choose from nearby that don't have to charge Irvine prices (because they don't have to pay Irvine rent)
10) It's right next to Irvine, so if you want some of that Irvine stuff - like the Spectrum, Wild Rivers, Great Park, or Irvine restaurants, it's a few minute drive away. A few extra minutes during peak traffic though.
11) Access to freeways is okay - you can use the toll road if needed for a few dollars. Bake Parkway is fine for 5/405 access, though a bit congested during peak hours.
12) The one thing I would knock it for is the SVUSD. They seem a bit resource constrained and perhaps not managed as well as they could be. For example, class sizes, at least from what I've heard in lower elementary, can approach 30 kids, but some are in the low 20s. If afterschool care is needed, there are some programs that are oversubscribed, so some families are left with no afterschool care, while other programs have plenty of room for all students. I heard drop off and pick up can take 30+ minutes each. The SVUSD doesn't offer bus service (or they do, but only for some? I'm not sure of the specifics on this). If school is a major factor for you, this is an area where you have to do your research. There are good solutions! You have school choice which means you can choose any school in the area (except for foothill ranch elementary for some reason), there are charter schools to choose from as well, and of course private schools too. It's a personal decision that I won't pretend how to navigate, but it is one that requires some effort to resolve. The SVUSD is why these houses don't have Irvine prices.
13) Lastly, the Toll Brothers construction is a huge plus. They used the same construction management team as Laguna Altura (those are some flagship homes - I forget the original sales prices, but some of those are reselling for $8M) Honestly there are so many big and small details that TB did well in the Meadows. Toll is among the best quality tract home builders imo.
Edit:
Noooo I lost a bunch of edit because I pressed the back button on my mouse by accident. Going to retype them but with more brevity
Note that TB will be constructing the Sequoia tract for the next 2-3 years, which is right next to Parklands.
Remember to work with a great agent. @usctrojancpa is one of the best. A great agent is worth every penny for such a massive and immensely important purchase
There are some bad listing agents in the Meadows (not nefarious or anything, just don't know what they're doing). Your great agent should help you navigate those.
Asking prices have softened in the Meadows. I think some investors were getting greedy with their asking prices. Some have cut their prices, others have pulled their listings and rented their house. Your great agent will help you make sense of pricing in the Meadows.
Parklands is close to the 241. Be sure to listen and smell for anything that bothers you when you visit. It might not even be noticeable after the Sequoia tract is finished, or maybe just from the top floor of certain Parkside houses when windows are open. There are some beautiful $3M+ houses next to the 261. It didn't deter those homeowners
Parklands can feel cramped. Land is expensive and so is construction. There's some give & take when deciding how to optimize the product at any price point. One thing that is nice about it is they actually get driveways, which you don't always get in an alley load tract. Some of those houses also approach 3,000 sqft too. There are some houses with no neighbors to the side or rear, which might feel less cramped when inside the house. For $2M, you get a nearly brand new house built by TB, a driveway, and around 3,000sqft of living space. Not bad!
someguy
Active member
It'll be interesting to see how sales go with a $2.9M base price (design center upgrades, window treatments, and landscaping are not included). I have a tough time believing TB will get $2.9M, but I have a great track record of being wrong.
The Sequoia floor plans are nearly identical to the Evergreen floor plans, though the Sequoias are on much larger lots, are much closer to Bake and Rancho Parkway, and further from the clubhouse & pool.
The last few Evergreen resales were
$2.86M on April 26th 2024 (https://www.redfin.com/CA/Lake-Forest/140-Royal-92630/home/190317030)
$2.77M on April 15th 2024 (https://www.redfin.com/CA/Lake-Forest/201-Royal-92630/home/189588921)
$2.82M on April 1st 2024 (https://www.redfin.com/CA/Lake-Forest/180-Riverbend-92630/home/182269921)
There are currently 4 Evergreen floor plans for resale with asking prices between $2.8M to $3.0M that have been on the market between 6 and 61 days as of now.
It seems like resale price increases have stalled.
It'll be many months until any Sequoias are ready to sell. They're still grading the tract. No streets or utilities yet. Who knows what the market will pay by the time they're ready to transact.
sleepy5136
Well-known member
I also find it very difficult to justify the price given the location despite the bigger lots than Evergreen. Based on the site plan, it looks like most homes will be having a motorcourt. I get the reasoning behind it as it allows for more homes to be built, but as a result it doesn't feel like a 3m home. I don't even think the evergreens or magnolia has a motorcourt like design for those communities.
Teresina homes are similar in size and besides not having a clubhouse, it's pretty much the same type of home. At the time of sale, Teresina base price was going for 1.2-1.3m.
Teresina homes are similar in size and besides not having a clubhouse, it's pretty much the same type of home. At the time of sale, Teresina base price was going for 1.2-1.3m.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
It's called Irvining... less land for more homes.
anteaterMD
Member
https://www.tollbrothers.com/luxury-homes-for-sale/California/The-Meadows
Website says the community is now sold out. Interesting.
Website says the community is now sold out. Interesting.
CalBears96
Well-known member
That's because The Meadows is sold out. This is the website for Sequoias:
New Home Community The Sequoias at The Meadows in Lake Forest, CA by Toll Brothers
The Sequoias at The Meadows in Lake Forest, CA, is a new home community featuring expansive home sites up to 4,000 sq. ft and resort-style amenities.
www.tollbrothers.com
anteaterMD
Member
HTML now reflects The Sequoias at The Meadows.
Looks like it was a temporary webpage transition this morning, not that The Meadows / The Sequoias sold out already.
Looks like it was a temporary webpage transition this morning, not that The Meadows / The Sequoias sold out already.
sleepy5136
Well-known member
Found this petition by the homeowners to be interesting: https://www.change.org/p/concerns-t...planned-school-site-in-meadows-lake-forest-ca
Kangen.Irvine
Active member
No one is surprised a school will not be built here. Was it a good location, yes but… Unless a Mello Roos style tax is introduced to cover the construction and full operational costs of a school in perpetuity, then it will not happen. SVUSD has declining enrollment and the state of CA is in debt. Residents need to attend government meetings instead of responding to sales pitches, that worked, after the fact.
someguy
Active member
Looks like the petition was posted August 2023. If there was any legitimately arguable laws broken there would be lawsuits by now. Current number of lawsuits against TB or SVUSD re: Meadows = 0.
sleepy5136
Well-known member
I don't think any of it is legitimate. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact they felt deceived regarding the entire school falling through. Blame goes to the buyer and buyers agent for not researching and doing due diligence prior to buying.
I was looking at these homes at one point but didn't pull the trigger as I think buying a home without seeing the models is too risky. I remember a bunch of hype around this community as it was one of the only new developments that were giving out commissions at that time. I believe a bunch of realtors were steering their clients to buy here simply because of that. You now see that reflected by the number of homes for sale in that community versus other newer communities in LF.
I was looking at these homes at one point but didn't pull the trigger as I think buying a home without seeing the models is too risky. I remember a bunch of hype around this community as it was one of the only new developments that were giving out commissions at that time. I believe a bunch of realtors were steering their clients to buy here simply because of that. You now see that reflected by the number of homes for sale in that community versus other newer communities in LF.
someguy
Active member
I think there's a fair amount of sellers who are doing as you say. The shenanigans that went on with the elementary school is quite a blemish on an otherwise well done (imo) community.
Another large portion of the resale in the Meadows are flips and/or barely lived in houses. I suspect these were investors looking to make a quick profit (judging by the prices they paid vs what they're selling at, they will have achieved this goal) and/or do some laundry. For better or worse, TB sold many of the later phase houses to FCBs.
talkirvine
Member
GP residents will fill SVUSD with their kids.
talkirvine
Member
I have heard Meadows residents are pushing for a gate for the community. That will pump up the price if achieved.
someguy
Active member
Just to throw out some counter arguments on this
1) The Meadows cannot prevent access to it's public parks from sun up to sun down, so gates will have to be open during those times, thereby defeating any perceived protection during those hours.
2) The final neighborhood plan that was sold to homeowners was ungated, which (A) means there will be significant modification required on the at least three gate locations - various impact studies, permits, lane modifications, sidewalk modifications, divider modifications, etc. It will be quite costly and construction will be disruptive. (B) Everyone bought into a non-gated community, likely with the expectation that it would continue to be ungated.
3) The homeowners will have to pay a significant special assessment to fund the construction. 4 to 5 figures depending on the final designs.
4) The recurring HOA dues will rise to fund the maintenance and reserve (for the inevitable major overhaul or replacement) of the gates
5) The recurring HOA dues will rise further and quite significantly if personnel is placed on site to operate the gate(s). This can add hundreds of dollars to each homeowner's monthly HOA dues.
6) Gates can be disruptive and inconvenient - ex they malfunction, letting guests in requires extra coordination, they can create traffic congestion, often the access code gets passed around to non residents thereby defeating some actual security.
7) There is almost no crime to speak of at The Meadows. Over the last 1.5 years or so, there's been the occasional package theft, apparently a dispute between a homeowner and contractor that led to the contractor vandalizing the homeowner's property, a driver did a donut in an intersection in the middle of the night that ended up pushing some mulch out of place (and probably damaging the car as it went up & down the curb), and a homeowner allegedly operated his car under the influence within the neighborhood and did some damage to the asphalt and his car.
8) Further on the crime issue, The Meadows is less than a mile from two major OC Sheriff hubs - the OC Sheriff department and Lake Forest City Hall. That is quite a serious deterrent to criminals.
9) 3 of the 5 HOA board seats are occupied by Toll Brothers until 2026. Highly unlikely that any TB representatives will vote to force a 4 to 5 figure special assessment and add hundreds to the monthly HOA dues while they're trying to sell their Sequoia tract.
10) Further to the point of the rise in HOA dues required to fund the operation and maintenance of a gate, a larger cost of ownership in The Meadows will, in isolation and by necessity, have a negative impact on the price a buyer can afford to pay for the house.
I've heard the gate is an idea being pushed by some very bored, irrational, and misguided residents with too much free time. It's completely unnecessary, not part of the planned neighborhood people bought into, and a poor allocation of resources. But ask me how I really feel
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talkirvine
Member
Thanks for the detailed comments. Seems you are an existing homeowner in Meadows. How do you like living there? I have been considering Meadows, but my main concerns are the school and the gates. I am now considering ParkSide, as they are gated without MR and within my budget.
sleepy5136
Well-known member
Parkside is close to 241 freeway
ThirtySomethingWEquity
Active member
Parkside feels really cheap to me. The houses are zero lot line, and the neighborhood feels incredibly crammed together.
Gated is nice, but not worth it. Just walk around the neighborhood in Parkside and tell me it's as nice as Baker Ranch or the Meadows.
someguy
Active member
I'll neither confirm or deny where I live
I have some friends who live at The Meadows. From conversations with them and my own observations
1) It's a diverse neighborhood, in a good way. The residents include young professionals, families with children aged young to old, empty nesters, and multigeneration families. Plenty of English speakers and a fair mix of non English speakers.
2) I would guess it's more owner occupied than renter. Maybe 70/30 or 80/20.
3) The final phases sold are more frequently investors or non-English speakers, especially the most expensive units.
4) The clubhouse & pool are awesome. Plenty of spaces for groups to hang out together (or for people to have some personal space), 2 pools (one of which a "zero entry" pool), 2 spas, plenty of seating, and a large indoor multi purpose space that can be rented for a few hundred dollars.
5) A variety of small parks that are fun for young kids, especially age 5+. The Parkside play structure is a fun one. The Redwood play structure is almost always empty - kids & parents don't seem to like that one. I forget the name of the park at Brackens/Midwick, but that one isn't very popular either.
6) People are friendly. The social events have had pretty good turn outs. Lots of families there. There's a fair amount of residents that are socially reserved too. All kinds are welcome.
7) The access to commercial stores is convenient. Foothill Town Center has Ralphs, Target, movie theater, fast food of all kinds, casual dining, medical services, fitness centers. The Home Depot across the street comes in handy. There's plenty of preschools in all directions. There's a few good coffee shops (Bodhi coffee and Blue Hummingbird) nearby. Costco is about 10 minutes down Alton.
8) The access to walking trails is nice. Baker ranch has a nice park within driving distance. The Lake Forest Sports park is also just down the street.
9) It's not Irvine, which means you will find many unique family owned food to choose from nearby that don't have to charge Irvine prices (because they don't have to pay Irvine rent)
10) It's right next to Irvine, so if you want some of that Irvine stuff - like the Spectrum, Wild Rivers, Great Park, or Irvine restaurants, it's a few minute drive away. A few extra minutes during peak traffic though.
11) Access to freeways is okay - you can use the toll road if needed for a few dollars. Bake Parkway is fine for 5/405 access, though a bit congested during peak hours.
12) The one thing I would knock it for is the SVUSD. They seem a bit resource constrained and perhaps not managed as well as they could be. For example, class sizes, at least from what I've heard in lower elementary, can approach 30 kids, but some are in the low 20s. If afterschool care is needed, there are some programs that are oversubscribed, so some families are left with no afterschool care, while other programs have plenty of room for all students. I heard drop off and pick up can take 30+ minutes each. The SVUSD doesn't offer bus service (or they do, but only for some? I'm not sure of the specifics on this). If school is a major factor for you, this is an area where you have to do your research. There are good solutions! You have school choice which means you can choose any school in the area (except for foothill ranch elementary for some reason), there are charter schools to choose from as well, and of course private schools too. It's a personal decision that I won't pretend how to navigate, but it is one that requires some effort to resolve. The SVUSD is why these houses don't have Irvine prices.
13) Lastly, the Toll Brothers construction is a huge plus. They used the same construction management team as Laguna Altura (those are some flagship homes - I forget the original sales prices, but some of those are reselling for $8M) Honestly there are so many big and small details that TB did well in the Meadows. Toll is among the best quality tract home builders imo.
Edit:
Noooo I lost a bunch of edit because I pressed the back button on my mouse by accident. Going to retype them but with more brevity
Note that TB will be constructing the Sequoia tract for the next 2-3 years, which is right next to Parklands.
Remember to work with a great agent. @usctrojancpa is one of the best. A great agent is worth every penny for such a massive and immensely important purchase
There are some bad listing agents in the Meadows (not nefarious or anything, just don't know what they're doing). Your great agent should help you navigate those.
Asking prices have softened in the Meadows. I think some investors were getting greedy with their asking prices. Some have cut their prices, others have pulled their listings and rented their house. Your great agent will help you make sense of pricing in the Meadows.
Parklands is close to the 241. Be sure to listen and smell for anything that bothers you when you visit. It might not even be noticeable after the Sequoia tract is finished, or maybe just from the top floor of certain Parkside houses when windows are open. There are some beautiful $3M+ houses next to the 261. It didn't deter those homeowners
Parklands can feel cramped. Land is expensive and so is construction. There's some give & take when deciding how to optimize the product at any price point. One thing that is nice about it is they actually get driveways, which you don't always get in an alley load tract. Some of those houses also approach 3,000 sqft too. There are some houses with no neighbors to the side or rear, which might feel less cramped when inside the house. For $2M, you get a nearly brand new house built by TB, a driveway, and around 3,000sqft of living space. Not bad!
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irviniteeee
Active member
I second this...I am NOT a fan of Parkside. It's way too dense.