President Trump

[morekaos]

I just don’t see what’s wrong with it. If you fight a war with the army, you have better to have an army you want.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

That's not the topic. It's the claim that Hegseth did the same thing as Obama.

And I thought Trump didn't start wars?

And are you encouraging violence?

 

[morekaos]

That's not the topic. It's the claim that Hegseth did the same thing as Obama.

And I thought Trump didn't start wars?

And are you encouraging violence?

again, who cares? And how am I encouraging violence…it’s been awhile since we’ve killed anybody over there

 

[irvine buyer]

Obama did remove some senior officers, but:​

• These were individual, case-by-case decisions, often tied to misconduct or disagreements (e.g., Gen. Stanley McChrystal after public comments).
• There was no broad campaign to overhaul military leadership or reshape it ideologically.

I don't know how long you've been following politics but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him or believe in his ideology; not just in the Pentagon but in other agencies as well. The media outlets that criticized what Obama was doing were right-leaning. Obama's media allies ran cover for him if they covered this; just like the NY Times did with yesterday's article. In order to preserve their narrative NY Times has to frame Hegseth as a liar.

John Swinton, a former Chief of Staff at The New York Times, is famously credited with saying journalists are "intellectual prostitutes" during a toast at the New York Press Club in 1880. According to the account of the speech, Swinton responded to a toast for an "independent press" by stating:

• "There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press."
• "I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with."
• "The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread."
• "We are intellectual prostitutes."

I originally linked an article from Gen. Vallely for a reason...it is not a media source. He said:

Since Barack Obama has been in the White House, high ranking military officers have been removed from their positions at a rate that is absolutely unprecedented. Things have gotten so bad that a number of retired generals are publicly speaking out about the 'purge' of the U.S. military that they believe is taking place. As you will see below, dozens of highly decorated military leaders have been dismissed from their positions over the past few years.

I would believe him before I believed the NY Times or any AI output.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I would believe AI before someone's unverified opinion:

I get why you’d treat a statement from a retired general seriously. But being a former officer doesn’t automatically make the claim accurate—so it’s still worth checking the specifics.

Who is making the claim​

Paul E. Vallely is a retired two-star general who has been active in political commentary for years. He’s not citing official Department of Defense data in that quote—it’s an opinion-based interpretation.

---

What the evidence actually shows​

1) There’s no verified “unprecedented purge”​

Under Barack Obama:

• Some senior officers were removed or reassigned, but
• Those cases were individual and specific, not a coordinated mass removal effort

Examples often cited:

• Stanley McChrystal — resigned after publicly criticizing civilian leadership
• David Petraeus — resigned over a personal scandal
• A handful of others tied to misconduct, poor performance, or policy disputes

That’s consistent with how civilian control of the military has worked under many presidents, not something unique or “unprecedented.”

---

2) The “dozens” framing is misleading​

Vallely’s argument typically:

• Aggregates unrelated cases over several years
• Mixes normal rotations, retirements, and disciplinary actions
• Sometimes includes officers who weren’t “purged” at all

In a military with hundreds of generals/admirals:

• Turnover of dozens over multiple years is normal, not extraordinary

---

3) No institutional alarm at the time​

If there had truly been an “unprecedented purge”:

• You would expect systemic warnings from Congress, the Pentagon, or bipartisan defense officials
• That didn’t happen in a sustained or consensus way

There were criticisms of specific decisions—but not credible, evidence-backed confirmation of a broad purge.

---

Bottom line​

• Vallely’s statement is an opinion, not a substantiated finding
• It relies on selective examples and loose definitions of “removed”
• There’s no solid evidence that Obama carried out a sweeping or unprecedented purge of military leadership

---

If you want, I can go deeper and actually list every senior officer removal during those years and show which ones were routine vs. unusual—that’s the clearest way to see how the “purge” narrative gets constructed.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

again, who cares? And how am I encouraging violence…it’s been awhile since we’ve killed anybody over there

Another joke that went over your head.

I guess I need to keep them more simple for you.

It's because you don't know how to use emojis so you when you see them it confuses you.

 

[morekaos]

Another joke that went over your head.

I guess I need to keep them more simple for you.

It's because you don't know how to use emojis so you when you see them it confuses you.

it’s all comedy to me

 

[irvine buyer]

3) No institutional alarm at the time

If there had truly been an “unprecedented purge”:

• You would expect systemic warnings from Congress, the Pentagon, or bipartisan defense officials
• That didn’t happen in a sustained or consensus way

My AI vs. your AI

Yes—some members of Congress publicly raised concerns and used “purge” language about the Obama administration removing/relieving senior officers. Across the 2013–2014 period, several Republican members voiced criticism over reported high-level officer removals/retirements and demanded explanations from the administration (often tied to broader worries about politicization of the military).

Maj. Gen. Patrick Henry Brady, U.S. Army, Ret.	Medal of Honor recipient; Vietnam “Dust Off” helicopter pilot	Claimed Obama was weakening military morale and would “fire anyone who disagrees with him,” especially over social-policy and readiness issues.
Lt. Gen. William G. “Jerry” Boykin, U.S. Army, Ret.	Delta Force founding member; former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence	Said he believed there was a “purging of the military” and that the number of senior four-star officers being relieved or retired was unusual.
Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely, U.S. Army, Ret.	Former deputy commanding general, Pacific Command; Fox military analyst	Accused the Obama White House of “weakening and gutting” the military and claimed officers who disagreed or spoke out were being pushed out.
Capt. Joseph R. John, U.S. Navy, Ret.	Not a general, but a retired senior naval officer and chairman of Combat Veterans For Congress PAC	Claimed many officers were forced out or blocked from promotion for not complying with Obama-era policies.

 

[morekaos]

brilliant move by the Democrats. Shut the government down for several months push people out of work and got…squat.

House approves Senate bill to fund DHS and end record-setting 76-day shutdown​

Trump signs bill funding DHS, ending record-breaking 76-day shutdown

The longest shutdown of a federal department in U.S. history came to an end on Thursday when President Trump signed a bill to fund most of the Department of Homeland Security following a breakthrough on Capitol Hill.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[irvinehomeowner]

My AI vs. your AI

Yes—some members of Congress publicly raised concerns and used “purge” language about the Obama administration removing/relieving senior officers. Across the 2013–2014 period, several Republican members voiced criticism over reported high-level officer removals/retirements and demanded explanations from the administration (often tied to broader worries about politicization of the military).

Maj. Gen. Patrick Henry Brady, U.S. Army, Ret.	Medal of Honor recipient; Vietnam “Dust Off” helicopter pilot	Claimed Obama was weakening military morale and would “fire anyone who disagrees with him,” especially over social-policy and readiness issues.
Lt. Gen. William G. “Jerry” Boykin, U.S. Army, Ret.	Delta Force founding member; former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence	Said he believed there was a “purging of the military” and that the number of senior four-star officers being relieved or retired was unusual.
Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely, U.S. Army, Ret.	Former deputy commanding general, Pacific Command; Fox military analyst	Accused the Obama White House of “weakening and gutting” the military and claimed officers who disagreed or spoke out were being pushed out.
Capt. Joseph R. John, U.S. Navy, Ret.	Not a general, but a retired senior naval officer and chairman of Combat Veterans For Congress PAC	Claimed many officers were forced out or blocked from promotion for not complying with Obama-era policies.

So are you changing the story?

Your original post said 197 and then even my AI response said:

• Some senior officers were removed or reassigned, but
• Those cases were individual and specific, not a coordinated mass removal effort

And now you are confirming that the number was smaller?

Did you find that trailer full of missing ballots yet?

 

[Loco_local]

He’s changing his story. First he said, “Yet these same media outlets were quiet when Obama did it; and ignorant people parrot these left-wing Democrat talking points not realizing the hypocrisy.”
Then he said, “but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him.”

 

[irvine buyer]

So are you changing the story?

Your original post said 197 and then even my AI response said:

• Some senior officers were removed or reassigned, but
• Those cases were individual and specific, not a coordinated mass removal effort

And now you are confirming that the number was smaller?

Did you find that trailer full of missing ballots yet?

Not changing the story, but looks like you are moving the goalposts. My original post had two links:

1. Gen. Vallely wrote in March 2014 and listed the names of over 100 military officers that he claims were purged and fired between 2011 and 2013. That's over 30 each year during that 3 year period. I believe the number for Hegseth is less than 30.

2. Rep. Gosar wrote in October 2021 claiming that 197 military officers were purged.

I'm not sure how you conclude that I am confirming the number is smaller. I have no idea what additional firings/resignations occurred between March 2014 and January 2017. Do you? You have the names of at least 100 military officers that you claim were not part of a purge. You seem to discount what Gen. Vallely is claiming but don't have any evidence to back it up other than a generalized statement from AI. Since AI is telling you those cases were individual and specific, maybe your AI can provide the specifics for each officer.

Going back to the original point, Democrats claim that Hegseth is purging the military just like Republicans claimed Obama was purging the military. Both are probably accurate. At least Hegseth is not denying it like all the people trying to protect Obama.

 

[irvine buyer]

He’s changing his story. First he said, “Yet these same media outlets were quiet when Obama did it; and ignorant people parrot these left-wing Democrat talking points not realizing the hypocrisy.”
Then he said, “but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him.”

Let me post both of my comments that you cut and pasted in its entirety:

The Pentagon was just one of many agencies where Obama purged high level people who were not loyal to him or questioned his agenda. Isn't this what the media accuses Trump of? Yet these same media outlets were quiet when Obama did it; and ignorant people parrot these left-wing Democrat talking points not realizing the hypocrisy.

I don't know how long you've been following politics but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him or believe in his ideology; not just in the Pentagon but in other agencies as well. The media outlets that criticized what Obama was doing were right-leaning. Obama's media allies ran cover for him if they covered this; just like the NY Times did with yesterday's article.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Not changing the story, but looks like you are moving the goalposts. My original post had two links:

1. Gen. Vallely wrote in March 2014 and listed the names of over 100 military officers that he claims were purged and fired between 2011 and 2013. That's over 30 each year during that 3 year period. I believe the number for Hegseth is less than 30.

2. Rep. Gosar wrote in October 2021 claiming that 197 military officers were purged.

I'm not sure how you conclude that I am confirming the number is smaller. I have no idea what additional firings/resignations occurred between March 2014 and January 2017. Do you? You have the names of at least 100 military officers that you claim were not part of a purge. You seem to discount what Gen. Vallely is claiming but don't have any evidence to back it up other than a generalized statement from AI. Since AI is telling you those cases were individual and specific, maybe your AI can provide the specifics for each officer.

Going back to the original point, Democrats claim that Hegseth is purging the military just like Republicans claimed Obama was purging the military. Both are probably accurate. At least Hegseth is not denying it like all the people trying to protect Obama.

This is just like how you were claiming there was a trailer full of missing ballots and I pointed out there was no evidence of that and then you could not support it otherwise.

Your claim and I quote was:

As for purging the military, perhaps Hegseth was just following in Obama's footsteps

Which you alluded to being a large number of people because you followed it with 2 "links" about 100 and 197 people that were "purged" during Obama's time.

And so your AI counter says that the language "purge" was used and then you only reference 4 officers.

How are you comparing that? Local Local even said you were using some debunked Facebook post that has recently resurfaced... you really need to fact check your social feeds.

I asked another AI model:

My friend said that Obama "purged" 100 to 197 military members similar to how Hegseth has, is there proof of that?

The claim that President Obama "purged" roughly 197 military officers is a long-standing viral narrative that has resurfaced recently, but it lacks factual evidence. While the number appears in various social media posts and political commentaries, it conflates routine retirements, administrative reassignments, and a few high-profile dismissals into a single "purge" narrative.
Here is a breakdown of the facts regarding these claims and how they compare to current events.

The Origins of the "197" Figure​

The specific number (often cited as 197 or 198) gained traction through a 2013 Facebook post and subsequent articles on sites like Breitbart. However, military analysts and fact-checkers have consistently found these claims to be misleading for several reasons:

• Routine Turnover: In any eight-year presidency, hundreds of general and flag officers retire or rotate out of their positions. The U.S. military has roughly 900 active-duty general and flag officers at any given time; normal attrition accounts for the vast majority of these "removals."
• Dismissals for Cause:There were a few high-profile firings during the Obama administration, but they were typically tied to specific scandals or performance issues. For example:
  • Gen. Stanley McChrystal (2010): Resigned after disparaging remarks about civilian leadership were published in Rolling Stone.
  • Gen. David McKiernan (2009): Relieved of command in Afghanistan because the Pentagon wanted a "fresh approach" to the war.
  • Nuclear Command Officers (2013): Several officers were removed following scandals involving cheating on proficiency exams and the mishandling of nuclear assets.

Comparing Obama to Hegseth​

The comparison your friend is making likely stems from recent testimony or public debates where Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth defended his administration's current overhaul of military leadership.

While the Obama-era "purge" is widely considered a myth based on normal turnover, the current actions under Hegseth are distinct in their intent and speed:

• Policy vs. Attrition: Hegseth has explicitly stated his intent to remove leaders who do not align with the current administration's "anti-woke" mandates or who were appointed by the previous administration.
• High-Level Removals: In early 2025 and 2026, the current administration moved to dismiss or replace several top-tier leaders simultaneously, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Chief of Naval Operations—moves that are traditionally rare outside of standard four-year term limits.

Summary of Evidence​

Feature	Obama "Purge" Claim	Hegseth/Trump Overhaul (2025-2026)
Evidence for Number	No verified list of 197 "purged" members exists; includes retirees.	Documented dismissal of key Joint Chiefs and service heads.
Primary Reason	Mostly routine rotation and a few conduct-based firings.	Explicit policy reform and "merit-based" restructuring.
Pace	Occurred over 8 years (2009–2017).	Concentrated in the first 18 months of the term.

In short, while every president influences military leadership through appointments, the idea that Obama systematically "purged" 197 officers for political reasons is a debunked talking point that misrepresents how military promotions and retirements actually work.

And this is what I meant, almost every counter here is "Well... what did Obama or Biden do?". And then, it's not even true. You got caught regurgitating unverified rhetoric and you don't want to admit it.

What does morekaos say? It's so absurd it's laughable.

 

[irvine buyer]

This is just like how you were claiming there was a trailer full of missing ballots and I pointed out there was no evidence of that and then you could not support it otherwise.

Your claim and I quote was:

As for purging the military, perhaps Hegseth was just following in Obama's footsteps

Which you alluded to being a large number of people because you followed it with 2 "links" about 100 and 197 people that were "purged" during Obama's time.

And so your AI counter says that the language "purge" was used and then you only reference 4 officers.

How are you comparing that? Local Local even said you were using some debunked Facebook post that has recently resurfaced... you really need to fact check your social feeds.

I asked another AI model:

My friend said that Obama "purged" 100 to 197 military members similar to how Hegseth has, is there proof of that?

The claim that President Obama "purged" roughly 197 military officers is a long-standing viral narrative that has resurfaced recently, but it lacks factual evidence. While the number appears in various social media posts and political commentaries, it conflates routine retirements, administrative reassignments, and a few high-profile dismissals into a single "purge" narrative.
Here is a breakdown of the facts regarding these claims and how they compare to current events.

The Origins of the "197" Figure​

The specific number (often cited as 197 or 198) gained traction through a 2013 Facebook post and subsequent articles on sites like Breitbart. However, military analysts and fact-checkers have consistently found these claims to be misleading for several reasons:

• Routine Turnover: In any eight-year presidency, hundreds of general and flag officers retire or rotate out of their positions. The U.S. military has roughly 900 active-duty general and flag officers at any given time; normal attrition accounts for the vast majority of these "removals."
• Dismissals for Cause:There were a few high-profile firings during the Obama administration, but they were typically tied to specific scandals or performance issues. For example:
  • Gen. Stanley McChrystal (2010): Resigned after disparaging remarks about civilian leadership were published in Rolling Stone.
  • Gen. David McKiernan (2009): Relieved of command in Afghanistan because the Pentagon wanted a "fresh approach" to the war.
  • Nuclear Command Officers (2013): Several officers were removed following scandals involving cheating on proficiency exams and the mishandling of nuclear assets.

Comparing Obama to Hegseth​

The comparison your friend is making likely stems from recent testimony or public debates where Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth defended his administration's current overhaul of military leadership.

While the Obama-era "purge" is widely considered a myth based on normal turnover, the current actions under Hegseth are distinct in their intent and speed:

• Policy vs. Attrition: Hegseth has explicitly stated his intent to remove leaders who do not align with the current administration's "anti-woke" mandates or who were appointed by the previous administration.
• High-Level Removals: In early 2025 and 2026, the current administration moved to dismiss or replace several top-tier leaders simultaneously, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Chief of Naval Operations—moves that are traditionally rare outside of standard four-year term limits.

Summary of Evidence​

Feature	Obama "Purge" Claim	Hegseth/Trump Overhaul (2025-2026)
Evidence for Number	No verified list of 197 "purged" members exists; includes retirees.	Documented dismissal of key Joint Chiefs and service heads.
Primary Reason	Mostly routine rotation and a few conduct-based firings.	Explicit policy reform and "merit-based" restructuring.
Pace	Occurred over 8 years (2009–2017).	Concentrated in the first 18 months of the term.

In short, while every president influences military leadership through appointments, the idea that Obama systematically "purged" 197 officers for political reasons is a debunked talking point that misrepresents how military promotions and retirements actually work.

And this is what I meant, almost every counter here is "Well... what did Obama or Biden do?". And then, it's not even true. You got caught regurgitating unverified rhetoric and you don't want to admit it.

What does morekaos say? It's so absurd it's laughable.

There you go trying to obfuscate things. I am moving the goalposts back to this so you can answer it:

Gen. Vallely wrote an article in March 2014 listing the names of over 100 military officers he claims were purged and fired under the Obama administration. You claim that is Vallely's unverified opinion. You then claim that there was no purge because the unusually high turnover of senior officials (in a three-year period) was part of normal military operations.

By listing the names and dates of departure for these people, Vallely has made it possible for someone to verify what he is claiming. Yet I have not been able to find anything that debunks what he is saying. Not even your AI results. You are correct that his claim appears to be unverified but so is your AI generated information that sounds awfully like left-wing Democrat talking points. Which is probably where AI got them from.

Until you can produce evidence that shows specifically what Gen Vallely has claimed is incorrect, I will continue to believe the General more than your politically biased AI results. A good start would be to point out the officers that should not be included on his list and why. He was not the only retired General that spoke out about what was going on in the Obama Pentagon. I think it's laughable to think that you or AI know more about what was going on during 2011-2013 in the Pentagon than retired generals who probably maintained high-level contacts at the Pentagon. They are privy to more off the record conversations than any media outlet or your AI models.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

You can believe what you want, you say you can't debunk but you can't verify Vallely's claim:

1) The “list” does exist — but not in a verifiable, official sense​

The material you’re referring to:

• Circulated widely in 2013–2014 blogs and partisan sites
• Often attributed to Paul E. Vallely or people citing him
• Claimed anywhere from 100 to 200 “purged” officers

Example of how it appeared at the time:

• One article claimed totals “close to 200” and described a “purge” narrative
• Forum/blog posts reproduced long “lists” of names without sourcing or context

But none of these were:

• Official DoD documents
• Congressional reports
• Verified datasets

---

2) The core problem: what counts as “dismissed”?​

When researchers and journalists have looked at those lists, they found they typically mix:

• Actual firings (rare)
• Forced retirements
• Reassignments
• End-of-tour rotations (completely normal)
• Officers leaving for unrelated reasons (including promotions or lateral moves)

In other words: it’s not a clean category


So even if you can compile ~100 names, that does not equal 100 firings.


All your "proof" is opinions, hearsay or social slop. You can't find actual evidence just like the trailer full of missing ballots.

And I actually don't really care about Hegseth's actions, just trying to point out the misinformation that is always posted by people in this thread (and on social media as a whole).