President Trump
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John Swinton, a former Chief of Staff at The New York Times, is famously credited with saying journalists are "intellectual prostitutes" during a toast at the New York Press Club in 1880. According to the account of the speech, Swinton responded to a toast for an "independent press" by stating:
Since Barack Obama has been in the White House, high ranking military officers have been removed from their positions at a rate that is absolutely unprecedented. Things have gotten so bad that a number of retired generals are publicly speaking out about the 'purge' of the U.S. military that they believe is taking place. As you will see below, dozens of highly decorated military leaders have been dismissed from their positions over the past few years.
I would believe him before I believed the NY Times or any AI output.
I guess I need to keep them more simple for you.
It's because you don't know how to use emojis so you when you see them it confuses you.
Yes—some members of Congress publicly raised concerns and used “purge” language about the Obama administration removing/relieving senior officers. Across the 2013–2014 period, several Republican members voiced criticism over reported high-level officer removals/retirements and demanded explanations from the administration (often tied to broader worries about politicization of the military).
So are you changing the story?
Your original post said 197 and then even my AI response said:
Did you find that trailer full of missing ballots yet?
1. Gen. Vallely wrote in March 2014 and listed the names of over 100 military officers that he claims were purged and fired between 2011 and 2013. That's over 30 each year during that 3 year period. I believe the number for Hegseth is less than 30.
2. Rep. Gosar wrote in October 2021 claiming that 197 military officers were purged.
I'm not sure how you conclude that I am confirming the number is smaller. I have no idea what additional firings/resignations occurred between March 2014 and January 2017. Do you? You have the names of at least 100 military officers that you claim were not part of a purge. You seem to discount what Gen. Vallely is claiming but don't have any evidence to back it up other than a generalized statement from AI. Since AI is telling you those cases were individual and specific, maybe your AI can provide the specifics for each officer.
Going back to the original point, Democrats claim that Hegseth is purging the military just like Republicans claimed Obama was purging the military. Both are probably accurate. At least Hegseth is not denying it like all the people trying to protect Obama.
The Pentagon was just one of many agencies where Obama purged high level people who were not loyal to him or questioned his agenda. Isn't this what the media accuses Trump of? Yet these same media outlets were quiet when Obama did it; and ignorant people parrot these left-wing Democrat talking points not realizing the hypocrisy.
I don't know how long you've been following politics but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him or believe in his ideology; not just in the Pentagon but in other agencies as well. The media outlets that criticized what Obama was doing were right-leaning. Obama's media allies ran cover for him if they covered this; just like the NY Times did with yesterday's article.
This is just like how you were claiming there was a trailer full of missing ballots and I pointed out there was no evidence of that and then you could not support it otherwise.
Your claim and I quote was:
As for purging the military, perhaps Hegseth was just following in Obama's footsteps
Which you alluded to being a large number of people because you followed it with 2 "links" about 100 and 197 people that were "purged" during Obama's time.
And so your AI counter says that the language "purge" was used and then you only reference 4 officers.
How are you comparing that? Local Local even said you were using some debunked Facebook post that has recently resurfaced... you really need to fact check your social feeds.
I asked another AI model:
My friend said that Obama "purged" 100 to 197 military members similar to how Hegseth has, is there proof of that?
The claim that President Obama "purged" roughly 197 military officers is a long-standing viral narrative that has resurfaced recently, but it lacks factual evidence. While the number appears in various social media posts and political commentaries, it conflates routine retirements, administrative reassignments, and a few high-profile dismissals into a single "purge" narrative.
Here is a breakdown of the facts regarding these claims and how they compare to current events.
While the Obama-era "purge" is widely considered a myth based on normal turnover, the current actions under Hegseth are distinct in their intent and speed:
In short, while every president influences military leadership through appointments, the idea that Obama systematically "purged" 197 officers for political reasons is a debunked talking point that misrepresents how military promotions and retirements actually work.
And this is what I meant, almost every counter here is "Well... what did Obama or Biden do?". And then, it's not even true. You got caught regurgitating unverified rhetoric and you don't want to admit it.
What does morekaos say? It's so absurd it's laughable.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
That's not the topic. It's the claim that Hegseth did the same thing as Obama.
And I thought Trump didn't start wars?
And are you encouraging violence?
And I thought Trump didn't start wars?
And are you encouraging violence?
morekaos
Well-known member
again, who cares? And how am I encouraging violence…it’s been awhile since we’ve killed anybody over thereThat's not the topic. It's the claim that Hegseth did the same thing as Obama.
And I thought Trump didn't start wars?
And are you encouraging violence?
irvine buyer
Active member
I don't know how long you've been following politics but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him or believe in his ideology; not just in the Pentagon but in other agencies as well. The media outlets that criticized what Obama was doing were right-leaning. Obama's media allies ran cover for him if they covered this; just like the NY Times did with yesterday's article. In order to preserve their narrative NY Times has to frame Hegseth as a liar.
John Swinton, a former Chief of Staff at The New York Times, is famously credited with saying journalists are "intellectual prostitutes" during a toast at the New York Press Club in 1880. According to the account of the speech, Swinton responded to a toast for an "independent press" by stating:
- "There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press."
- "I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with."
- "The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread."
- "We are intellectual prostitutes."
Since Barack Obama has been in the White House, high ranking military officers have been removed from their positions at a rate that is absolutely unprecedented. Things have gotten so bad that a number of retired generals are publicly speaking out about the 'purge' of the U.S. military that they believe is taking place. As you will see below, dozens of highly decorated military leaders have been dismissed from their positions over the past few years.
I would believe him before I believed the NY Times or any AI output.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I would believe AI before someone's unverified opinion:
I get why you’d treat a statement from a retired general seriously. But being a former officer doesn’t automatically make the claim accurate—so it’s still worth checking the specifics.
Paul E. Vallely is a retired two-star general who has been active in political commentary for years. He’s not citing official Department of Defense data in that quote—it’s an opinion-based interpretation.
Under Barack Obama:
Examples often cited:
That’s consistent with how civilian control of the military has worked under many presidents, not something unique or “unprecedented.”
Vallely’s argument typically:
In a military with hundreds of generals/admirals:
If there had truly been an “unprecedented purge”:
There were criticisms of specific decisions—but not credible, evidence-backed confirmation of a broad purge.
If you want, I can go deeper and actually list every senior officer removal during those years and show which ones were routine vs. unusual—that’s the clearest way to see how the “purge” narrative gets constructed.
I get why you’d treat a statement from a retired general seriously. But being a former officer doesn’t automatically make the claim accurate—so it’s still worth checking the specifics.
Who is making the claim
Paul E. Vallely is a retired two-star general who has been active in political commentary for years. He’s not citing official Department of Defense data in that quote—it’s an opinion-based interpretation.
What the evidence actually shows
1) There’s no verified “unprecedented purge”
Under Barack Obama:
- Some senior officers were removed or reassigned, but
- Those cases were individual and specific, not a coordinated mass removal effort
Examples often cited:
- Stanley McChrystal — resigned after publicly criticizing civilian leadership
- David Petraeus — resigned over a personal scandal
- A handful of others tied to misconduct, poor performance, or policy disputes
That’s consistent with how civilian control of the military has worked under many presidents, not something unique or “unprecedented.”
2) The “dozens” framing is misleading
Vallely’s argument typically:
- Aggregates unrelated cases over several years
- Mixes normal rotations, retirements, and disciplinary actions
- Sometimes includes officers who weren’t “purged” at all
In a military with hundreds of generals/admirals:
- Turnover of dozens over multiple years is normal, not extraordinary
3) No institutional alarm at the time
If there had truly been an “unprecedented purge”:
- You would expect systemic warnings from Congress, the Pentagon, or bipartisan defense officials
- That didn’t happen in a sustained or consensus way
There were criticisms of specific decisions—but not credible, evidence-backed confirmation of a broad purge.
Bottom line
- Vallely’s statement is an opinion, not a substantiated finding
- It relies on selective examples and loose definitions of “removed”
- There’s no solid evidence that Obama carried out a sweeping or unprecedented purge of military leadership
If you want, I can go deeper and actually list every senior officer removal during those years and show which ones were routine vs. unusual—that’s the clearest way to see how the “purge” narrative gets constructed.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Another joke that went over your head.again, who cares? And how am I encouraging violence…it’s been awhile since we’ve killed anybody over there
I guess I need to keep them more simple for you.
It's because you don't know how to use emojis so you when you see them it confuses you.
morekaos
Well-known member
it’s all comedy to me
irvine buyer
Active member
My AI vs. your AI
Yes—some members of Congress publicly raised concerns and used “purge” language about the Obama administration removing/relieving senior officers. Across the 2013–2014 period, several Republican members voiced criticism over reported high-level officer removals/retirements and demanded explanations from the administration (often tied to broader worries about politicization of the military).
| Maj. Gen. Patrick Henry Brady, U.S. Army, Ret. | Medal of Honor recipient; Vietnam “Dust Off” helicopter pilot | Claimed Obama was weakening military morale and would “fire anyone who disagrees with him,” especially over social-policy and readiness issues. |
| Lt. Gen. William G. “Jerry” Boykin, U.S. Army, Ret. | Delta Force founding member; former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence | Said he believed there was a “purging of the military” and that the number of senior four-star officers being relieved or retired was unusual. |
| Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely, U.S. Army, Ret. | Former deputy commanding general, Pacific Command; Fox military analyst | Accused the Obama White House of “weakening and gutting” the military and claimed officers who disagreed or spoke out were being pushed out. |
| Capt. Joseph R. John, U.S. Navy, Ret. | Not a general, but a retired senior naval officer and chairman of Combat Veterans For Congress PAC | Claimed many officers were forced out or blocked from promotion for not complying with Obama-era policies. |
morekaos
Well-known member
brilliant move by the Democrats. Shut the government down for several months push people out of work and got…squat.
www.cbsnews.com
House approves Senate bill to fund DHS and end record-setting 76-day shutdown
Trump signs bill funding DHS, ending record-breaking 76-day shutdown
The longest shutdown of a federal department in U.S. history came to an end on Thursday when President Trump signed a bill to fund most of the Department of Homeland Security following a breakthrough on Capitol Hill.
www.cbsnews.com
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
My AI vs. your AI
Yes—some members of Congress publicly raised concerns and used “purge” language about the Obama administration removing/relieving senior officers. Across the 2013–2014 period, several Republican members voiced criticism over reported high-level officer removals/retirements and demanded explanations from the administration (often tied to broader worries about politicization of the military).
Maj. Gen. Patrick Henry Brady, U.S. Army, Ret. Medal of Honor recipient; Vietnam “Dust Off” helicopter pilot Claimed Obama was weakening military morale and would “fire anyone who disagrees with him,” especially over social-policy and readiness issues. Lt. Gen. William G. “Jerry” Boykin, U.S. Army, Ret. Delta Force founding member; former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Said he believed there was a “purging of the military” and that the number of senior four-star officers being relieved or retired was unusual. Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely, U.S. Army, Ret. Former deputy commanding general, Pacific Command; Fox military analyst Accused the Obama White House of “weakening and gutting” the military and claimed officers who disagreed or spoke out were being pushed out. Capt. Joseph R. John, U.S. Navy, Ret. Not a general, but a retired senior naval officer and chairman of Combat Veterans For Congress PAC Claimed many officers were forced out or blocked from promotion for not complying with Obama-era policies.
So are you changing the story?
Your original post said 197 and then even my AI response said:
- Some senior officers were removed or reassigned, but
- Those cases were individual and specific, not a coordinated mass removal effort
Did you find that trailer full of missing ballots yet?
Loco_local
Active member
He’s changing his story. First he said, “Yet these same media outlets were quiet when Obama did it; and ignorant people parrot these left-wing Democrat talking points not realizing the hypocrisy.”
Then he said, “but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him.”
Then he said, “but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him.”
irvine buyer
Active member
Not changing the story, but looks like you are moving the goalposts. My original post had two links:
1. Gen. Vallely wrote in March 2014 and listed the names of over 100 military officers that he claims were purged and fired between 2011 and 2013. That's over 30 each year during that 3 year period. I believe the number for Hegseth is less than 30.
2. Rep. Gosar wrote in October 2021 claiming that 197 military officers were purged.
I'm not sure how you conclude that I am confirming the number is smaller. I have no idea what additional firings/resignations occurred between March 2014 and January 2017. Do you? You have the names of at least 100 military officers that you claim were not part of a purge. You seem to discount what Gen. Vallely is claiming but don't have any evidence to back it up other than a generalized statement from AI. Since AI is telling you those cases were individual and specific, maybe your AI can provide the specifics for each officer.
Going back to the original point, Democrats claim that Hegseth is purging the military just like Republicans claimed Obama was purging the military. Both are probably accurate. At least Hegseth is not denying it like all the people trying to protect Obama.
irvine buyer
Active member
Let me post both of my comments that you cut and pasted in its entirety:
The Pentagon was just one of many agencies where Obama purged high level people who were not loyal to him or questioned his agenda. Isn't this what the media accuses Trump of? Yet these same media outlets were quiet when Obama did it; and ignorant people parrot these left-wing Democrat talking points not realizing the hypocrisy.
I don't know how long you've been following politics but quite a bit was written back during Obama's second term about him getting rid of people who did not agree with him or believe in his ideology; not just in the Pentagon but in other agencies as well. The media outlets that criticized what Obama was doing were right-leaning. Obama's media allies ran cover for him if they covered this; just like the NY Times did with yesterday's article.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
This is just like how you were claiming there was a trailer full of missing ballots and I pointed out there was no evidence of that and then you could not support it otherwise.
Your claim and I quote was:
As for purging the military, perhaps Hegseth was just following in Obama's footsteps
Which you alluded to being a large number of people because you followed it with 2 "links" about 100 and 197 people that were "purged" during Obama's time.
And so your AI counter says that the language "purge" was used and then you only reference 4 officers.
How are you comparing that? Local Local even said you were using some debunked Facebook post that has recently resurfaced... you really need to fact check your social feeds.
I asked another AI model:
My friend said that Obama "purged" 100 to 197 military members similar to how Hegseth has, is there proof of that?
The claim that President Obama "purged" roughly 197 military officers is a long-standing viral narrative that has resurfaced recently, but it lacks factual evidence. While the number appears in various social media posts and political commentaries, it conflates routine retirements, administrative reassignments, and a few high-profile dismissals into a single "purge" narrative.
Here is a breakdown of the facts regarding these claims and how they compare to current events.
The Origins of the "197" Figure
The specific number (often cited as 197 or 198) gained traction through a 2013 Facebook post and subsequent articles on sites like Breitbart. However, military analysts and fact-checkers have consistently found these claims to be misleading for several reasons:- Routine Turnover: In any eight-year presidency, hundreds of general and flag officers retire or rotate out of their positions. The U.S. military has roughly 900 active-duty general and flag officers at any given time; normal attrition accounts for the vast majority of these "removals."
- Dismissals for Cause:There were a few high-profile firings during the Obama administration, but they were typically tied to specific scandals or performance issues. For example:
- Gen. Stanley McChrystal (2010): Resigned after disparaging remarks about civilian leadership were published in Rolling Stone.
- Gen. David McKiernan (2009): Relieved of command in Afghanistan because the Pentagon wanted a "fresh approach" to the war.
- Nuclear Command Officers (2013): Several officers were removed following scandals involving cheating on proficiency exams and the mishandling of nuclear assets.
Comparing Obama to Hegseth
The comparison your friend is making likely stems from recent testimony or public debates where Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth defended his administration's current overhaul of military leadership.While the Obama-era "purge" is widely considered a myth based on normal turnover, the current actions under Hegseth are distinct in their intent and speed:
- Policy vs. Attrition: Hegseth has explicitly stated his intent to remove leaders who do not align with the current administration's "anti-woke" mandates or who were appointed by the previous administration.
- High-Level Removals: In early 2025 and 2026, the current administration moved to dismiss or replace several top-tier leaders simultaneously, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Chief of Naval Operations—moves that are traditionally rare outside of standard four-year term limits.
Summary of Evidence
| Feature | Obama "Purge" Claim | Hegseth/Trump Overhaul (2025-2026) |
| Evidence for Number | No verified list of 197 "purged" members exists; includes retirees. | Documented dismissal of key Joint Chiefs and service heads. |
| Primary Reason | Mostly routine rotation and a few conduct-based firings. | Explicit policy reform and "merit-based" restructuring. |
| Pace | Occurred over 8 years (2009–2017). | Concentrated in the first 18 months of the term. |
In short, while every president influences military leadership through appointments, the idea that Obama systematically "purged" 197 officers for political reasons is a debunked talking point that misrepresents how military promotions and retirements actually work.
And this is what I meant, almost every counter here is "Well... what did Obama or Biden do?". And then, it's not even true. You got caught regurgitating unverified rhetoric and you don't want to admit it.
What does morekaos say? It's so absurd it's laughable.