Obamacare

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paperboyNC said:
Tyler Durden said:
Not really...

Does the supply of petroleum increase just because more people are demanding to drive?
Yup. There is oil that is costly to extract that becomes profitable as demand for oil rises causes prices to rise.

Does the supply of fresh water increase because there is more demand for bottled water?
Yup. They are building salt water desalination plants in So Cal to increase supply of fresh water. The plants will only be profitable if the price of water doubles over the next 10 years (which is expected due to supply/demand)

Does the supply of fish in the ocean increase because there are more people demanding chilean sea bass?
Most likely. They could raise their own chilean sea bass or find a way to increase their reproduction / protect them from predators, etc.

Completely agree...or else the market adjusts. 

It creates more fuel efficient cars or alternative fuels.

Market can generate alternatives as well...like a fish not as endangered as CSB.

Finally, you are talking about natural resources...you can increase supplies of doctors pretty quickly.

 
Petroleum is highly elastic.  In the USA, that elasticity starts manifesting at about $5 and gets rather steep as it goes up. If you remember back to 2007, you could literally see traffic decreasing weekly with the gas run up.  Industry was seriously looking at alternatives and changing shipping methods. 

Increasing the number of Doctors is probably a 10 year cycle, however,  what says we are actually at capacity on Doctors?  A huge percentage of Doctors time is consumed by the money machine.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
My question is:

Will Obamacare make it more affordable for most companies to provide healthcare to their employees?

No. (It doesn't change much)

We would need more massive reforms such as:
- Single payer system (aka universal health care)
- Actual price lists / quotes / comparisons
- Rewards / Penalties for consumers that choose expensive options (a good example I read was CALPERS only paying up to $X,XXX.XX for certain procedures and the consumer pays the rest out of pocket)
- Reduction in unnecessary tests and procedures.
- Less end of life cost (I've read that health care in the last year or life is phenomenally high). Maybe you don't need hip replacement surgery at 91.
- Fixing our diet. Stop subsidizing meat, corn and dairy and start subsidizing vegetables?

Luckily we have just about every other developed country in the world that we could look to for ideas.
 
Average price per gallon for Gas in the Dallas suburbs is $3.09.

Our gas demand is elastic.  Gas is cheap and we're in the flat part of the elastic demand curve.  It's that simple. 

No one said perfectly elastic. IMHO, since you trotted that extreme point out, you know you're advocating for the Devil.

As for CNN, drivel, CNN stopped being a relevant source of news a long time ago.
 
paperboyNC said:
irvinehomeowner said:
My question is:

Will Obamacare make it more affordable for most companies to provide healthcare to their employees?

No. (It doesn't change much)

We would need more massive reforms such as:
- Single payer system (aka universal health care)
- Actual price lists / quotes / comparisons
- Rewards / Penalties for consumers that choose expensive options (a good example I read was CALPERS only paying up to $X,XXX.XX for certain procedures and the consumer pays the rest out of pocket)
- Reduction in unnecessary tests and procedures.
- Less end of life cost (I've read that health care in the last year or life is phenomenally high). Maybe you don't need hip replacement surgery at 91.
- Fixing our diet. Stop subsidizing meat, corn and dairy and start subsidizing vegetables?

Luckily we have just about every other developed country in the world that we could look to for ideas.

The easiest fix is really pretty straight forward, collectively we need to get off our *sses.

Literally, we all need to stop sitting around the majority of the time.  Our bodies were designed to be in motion. We're not in motion.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
My question is:

Will Obamacare make it more affordable for most companies to provide healthcare to their employees?

Depends on what the employers do.  Obamacare doesn't change the employer-employee relationship but does allow employers to go on the exchange. 
 
paperboyNC said:
- Less end of life cost (I've read that health care in the last year or life is phenomenally high). Maybe you don't need hip replacement surgery at 91.

ive always been a believer that we should have the right to kill ourselves by taking some pill or injecting yourself with something. i think a lot of people would actually choose this way to end their life vs being on respirators and other expensive shit.  unfortunately, our governments laws have religious undertones and therefore it is not allowed. in Washington/Oregon/Montana, the doctors will give you some pills you can take to end your life but you have to be terminally ill. if im 75 and ive had enough i should be allowed to take some pills and call it a day. as long as you administer it to yourself i dont see the problem. i dont think we should force doctors to administer since that could have an impact on their mental well being or against their beliefs. hopefully in 10-20 years (or sooner hopefully) the government realizes this should be a legal option.
 
That's nice Tyler, but frankly think out of the ivory tower box.  Oil is inelastic at CURRENT price.  For what oil does, it is an incredibly cheap resource.  We haven't developed many alternatives because frankly, they can't compete on the bang of buck ratio of oil.  If we start to ramp oil price way up, we will see oil become elastic.

Tyler Durden said:
nosuchreality said:
Average price per gallon for Gas in the Dallas suburbs is $3.09.

Our gas demand is elastic.  Gas is cheap and we're in the flat part of the elastic demand curve.  It's that simple. 

No one said perfectly elastic. IMHO, since you trotted that extreme point out, you know you're advocating for the Devil.

As for CNN, drivel, CNN stopped being a relevant source of news a long time ago.

Just because you believe something, does not make it true.

Did you read the Forbes piece? Or the other link?

Here is another paper stating the same thing from the DoE's website (I have attached it for your reading pleasure):

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEkQFjAD&url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.eia.doe.gov%2Ffeatures%2Felasticity.pdf&ei=5ttNUrL7E9KuyAGos4HACg&usg=AFQjCNEeJZtXRV3emmt1RyN55knrzdrrfw&sig2=zaiD9rJ1WR6BJN1br9Yn1A&bvm=bv.53537100,d.eWU&cad=rja

Here's another article from the UK also stating the same thing:

http://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Competitive_markets/The_market_for_oil.html

"The demand for oil is relatively inelastic with respect to price, given that oil has few direct substitutes.
"

IMHO, since you're relying on conjecture instead of objective facts and resort to discredit the source of the information (e.g., CNN being non-credible) - you realize your own point is flawed.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Considering what a failure Social Security is looking to become... I don't have high hopes for Obamacare.

Simply removing the income limit while keeping the benefits capped at the current amount makes Social Security generate a surplus over the long term.

Very painful for us high income earners but it is another side effect of the income inequality that is accelerating in our country and will ultimately be its downfall if we don't address it.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Considering what a failure Social Security is looking to become... I don't have high hopes for Obamacare.

Social security is not a failure...it's just not updated.  The program was enacted in 1933 with completely different actuarial tables and with most jobs having pension plans. 

 
Irvinecommuter said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Considering what a failure Social Security is looking to become... I don't have high hopes for Obamacare.

Social security is not a failure...it's just not updated.  The program was enacted in 1933 with completely different actuarial tables and with most jobs having pension plans. 
So not updated since 1933. How efficient.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Irvinecommuter said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Considering what a failure Social Security is looking to become... I don't have high hopes for Obamacare.

Social security is not a failure...it's just not updated.  The program was enacted in 1933 with completely different actuarial tables and with most jobs having pension plans. 
So not updated since 1933. How efficient.

But that's not a reflection of the idea of social security...just execution.  As mentioned above, it's an easy fix between adding a means test and raising the retirement age.  Concept is sound.
 
qwerty said:
paperboyNC said:
- Less end of life cost (I've read that health care in the last year or life is phenomenally high). Maybe you don't need hip replacement surgery at 91.

ive always been a believer that we should have the right to kill ourselves by taking some pill or injecting yourself with something. i think a lot of people would actually choose this way to end their life vs being on respirators and other expensive shit.  unfortunately, our governments laws have religious undertones and therefore it is not allowed. in Washington/Oregon/Montana, the doctors will give you some pills you can take to end your life but you have to be terminally ill. if im 75 and ive had enough i should be allowed to take some pills and call it a day. as long as you administer it to yourself i dont see the problem. i dont think we should force doctors to administer since that could have an impact on their mental well being or against their beliefs. hopefully in 10-20 years (or sooner hopefully) the government realizes this should be a legal option.

I'm fine with this but you know...death panels!
 
Irvinecommuter said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Irvinecommuter said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Considering what a failure Social Security is looking to become... I don't have high hopes for Obamacare.

Social security is not a failure...it's just not updated.  The program was enacted in 1933 with completely different actuarial tables and with most jobs having pension plans. 
So not updated since 1933. How efficient.

But that's not a reflection of the idea of social security...just execution.  As mentioned above, it's an easy fix between adding a means test and raising the retirement age.  Concept is sound.
I never said I had an issue with the idea of Social Security... but as you said... it's execution. Which doesn't bode well for anything else the Fed wants to "execute".

Maybe in 80 years they'll figure it out.
 
Tyler Durden said:
Oil is inelastic at CURRENT price. 
double-facepalm-picard-riker-2.jpg

watch yourself NSR, Irvine commuter is rubbing off on you.
 
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