Obamacare on Life Support article

nosuchreality said:
Left on it's own, the prior system would have collapsed too. 
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I don't know about that.  It was hitting some barriers.  IMO, the ACA allowed it to get worse than it would have on it's own (for most of us here).  Economics and the market would have pushed back and prevented prices from going higher.

nosuchreality said:
Employers were losing the premium fight and people not covered by an employer plan were increasingly SOOL.
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The ACA hurt many employers, IMO.  Prices went up and they couldn't say no.

That said, insurance had already gotten too expensive for too many people.  The ACA did help resolve that by redistributing the wealth.
 
Movingup said:
End of Obamacare!
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Still gotta pass the senate and if those with pre-existing conditions get the shaft it will be the end of the republicans come midterm elections.

84% of people 55-65 have pre-existing conditions and I bet most of the other 16% either don't know they have something (because they haven't been to the doctor) or haven't used insurance to cover them and aren't counted. That's a whole lot of votes up for grabs and people vote when their wallet is affected.

Something HAS to be done with premiums going up on Obamacare and coverage dropping but throwing pre-existing people under the bus is going to hurt republicans.

In our area 400% of poverty is slightly over $64K. Go over that and there is no subsidy for a couple. Premiums are over $1400 a month for a couple currently and only subsidized if you are under the 400% poverty level. Go over by a buck and no subsidy. Got some extra income u weren't counting on (bonus for signing up for a new checking account, some weird $500 rent you collected for some relative who left u some property in a trust with 50 other people u didn't know about, mandatory ira distributions from a relative who passed on, special dividend declared at the end of the year, nice bonus from work you didn't expect, etc) and boom u don't qualify for that subsidy...... surprise!

If the insurance coverage was good it's one thing but no........ that policy is not one of the high end policies. One of my docs takes a higher policy. The others take nothing from Obamacare at all. And the kicker is that in every case their cash pay price to see them without insurance is less than the copays! And don't even get me started about meds which are all cheaper at Costco or even online than the copays for the higher end policies.

Then there is the oop. That Obamacare policy is only good if I wanted to go to crappy docs and then after over $20K oop between the premiums and oop for one person and not even including rx costs.

Now HOW is something that costs THAT much for someone earning a little over $64K per year in the OC affordable? Who can even pay those premiums in the OC on that income and get nothing for it?

Obviously it isn't which is why someone in that position isn't required to have insurance at all. They can get a waiver and pay NOTHING and no penalty at all because it's UNAFFORDABLE. HOW does that help? Pay cash (which is the cheapest way to go even with paying premiums) and have NO insurance at all?

Btw........ dental is not included either and no dentists I know accept Obamacare anyway.

So off the rant. SOMETHING MUST BE DONE but making pre-existing people pay even more is a disaster for the republicans and anyone with preexisting conditions which will be everyone if you live long enough. Pray your kids don't get asthma or ear infections and who knows what will be counted as pre-existing anyway. Miscarriages, osteoporosis, broken bones, hypertension, skin conditions?. You'll probably join the rest of us and the insurance companies will be happy.
 
There is no such thing as insuring a pre-exisiting condition.  You don't insure it, you simply pay for it...that is not insurance, its another social program.
 
This ACA repeal is just so much "bread and circuses". The bill will die in the Senate, and ACA will eventually do what it was intended to do all along - collapse under it's own weight, and drive everyone into the long intended solution - "medicare for all" socialized medicine.

Curious if we must all bear the insurance burden for those who smoke and refuse to quit? How about insurance for the morbidly obese? Must I also pay the bills for that joker who was BASE jumping off of properties in Laguna and Newport - who had about $100k in bills after coming in juuuusst a bit short on his last adventure:

[url]http://www.ocregister.com/2016/10/27/man-arrested-suspected-of-being-youtuber-jumping-off-orange-county-landmarks/[/url]

and

[url]http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/01/03/daredevils-gofundme-page-criticized-after-failed-jump/[/url]

plus:

[url]https://www.gofundme.com/36jtpcg[/url]


Clearly there has to be a line somewhere as to who should be insured and who should be denied, but no one seems to want to plant a flag in the ground, set a standard, then legislate from that point forward.

For all of the "Something MUST BE DONE" folks, how about:

A 2% tax surcharge on all real estate sold or refinanced,
A 1 cent per share "finance tax" for ever purchase or sale of stock, (my fave) ,  and
A 10% surcharge on anyone in the "entertainment industry" earning more than 2x the State median income. (AKA Preachy Pundit Penalty)

When proposing these kinds of ideas on how to pay for other peoples insurance needs, these suggestions tend to whittle down the number of people who want insurance for everyone, but are unwilling to chip in a bit to accomplish the goal. Since "someone has to pay for it", last time I checked, no one is preventing anyone from contributing as much as they want to reduce insurance costs.

Would it be nice to have cheap medical care? Sure. Are there ways to do it? Perhaps. Is ACA the right way or NHS/"Medicare for All"? As it's been said, if you like the DMV, you'll really love Government provided "Free" healthcare.

My .02c
 
spootieho said:
why didn't obamacare help those thrillseekers?
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A lot of young thrill seekers with the feeling of immortality didn't bother signing up for insurance, so Obamacare was irrelevant to them. They just got treated in the ER like any uninsured patient and the hospital passed on the of their care to everyone who pays into the system.

 
morekaos said:
There is no such thing as insuring a pre-exisiting condition.  You don't insure it, you simply pay for it...that is not insurance, its another social program.
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This made me laugh but there are circumstances where pre-existing condition is unavoidable.

What if someone moves to another state? Or changes jobs? Or some other reason for having to switch health plans.

You can't punish people for having certain illnesses.
 
No, you can't but lets be honest. Insurance functions because of odds of paying vs the premiums paid over time.  A pre-existing condition is a sure thing.  Paying is 100% assured and will not be covered by any premiums paid in.  The model is negative from the start with no chance of ever going positive so it isn't "insurance", its pure benefit or just another social program since a private company will never pay out forever, the taxpayer will end up with the bill. (single payer)
 
Now I understand why Republicans don't want to cover pregnancy. There will be a nearly 100% chance that you will have to see a doctor (unless you're a teenage girl who gives birth in a fast food restaurant and acts like nothing happened because getting birth control was immoral and not covered by insurance either). It's best not to provide prenatal care either because what kind of society needs healthy babies?
 
morekaos said:
No, you can't but lets be honest. Insurance functions because of odds of paying vs the premiums paid over time.  A pre-existing condition is a sure thing.  Paying is 100% assured and will not be covered by any premiums paid in.  The model is negative from the start with no chance of ever going positive so it isn't "insurance", its pure benefit or just another social program since a private company will never pay out forever, the taxpayer will end up with the bill. (single payer)
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Using this logic, then employer-provided healthcare plans shouldn't work either, right?
 
Employer plans a have a risk pool, so they still function by raising premiums when necessary.  An individual plan isn't part of a risk pool, so it's not possible to raise premiums high enough on that individual to cover the costs.
 
Minor nit.

The legislation is called, American Health Care Act of 2017 (H.R. 1628).

I don't see the word insurance in that title, not so funny that the entire thing is focused on what insurance companies can and cannot charge you.
 
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