NBA 2014-2015

[qwerty]

See thats the prob. Most people, even laker nation, have a hard time agreeing on who's the best laker of all time. Yet everyone usually has MJ or LBJ as 1. Therefore, Kobe can not be 1 or even 2. It's just logic

95% of the world is stupid

 

[Irvinecommuter]

See thats the prob. Most people, even laker nation, have a hard time agreeing on who's the best laker of all time. Yet everyone usually has MJ or LBJ as 1. Therefore, Kobe can not be 1 or even 2. It's just logic

95% of the world is stupid

That percentage seems high coming from you

 

[irvinehomeowner]

This is actually a better exercise.

Say you had to start an NBA franchise today (with today's rules and opposing teams) and you were able to pick any player at the start of their prime, who would you pick to start your team hoping to win the most rings for the next 10 years?

While MJ has the skills, as a leader who makes other players better, he's not as good as people like to think... and Kobe is even worse... and I want someone that other players *want* to play with, so my nod is to LBJ.

To the other posts:

1. The Decision wasn't all about an LBJ ego boost, I'm pretty sure ESPN, LBJ's agent, and all of his sponsors had something to do with it.

2. I would put Magic, Kareem and Shaq before Kobe as greatest Laker (but I'm a Kobe hater).

3. LBJ's game isn't about taking the last shot, it's about getting his team the shot with the best chance of winning, even if that means passing to someone who is more open than he is. But do you notice now because of that criticism he is forcing up that last shot? An argument could be made that if he passed during his drives in Game 1 and Game 2, they could have won both games if his teammate hit the open shot.

Disclaimer: I think LBJ is better than both Jordan and Kobe.

 

[AW]

Jordan trumps them both. Takes and makes game winning shots, and doesn't take bad shots.

jordan took plenty of bad shots. its memories like this why the jordan myth never dies.

Although Jordan did take bad shots, his career fg% is better, and Kobe owns the nba all time record of most fg missed.
Sometimes it's like playing a game of horse by himself in the middle of a game

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Kobe fan, but mj imo is better.  After all, he did emulate his game after mj, mj didn't have that luxury.

 

[AW]

Lbj gets all the stats but when the game was on the line, he either misses shots or don't take them.
There were several late game iso plays where he just passes it back out.  Mj or Kobe will take those shots, make or miss, we've seen a lot of them taking and making last shots to win.

I would totally disagree with this but even assuming it's true...LBJ sets up his team to win for the first 59 minutes and 30 second a lot better than Kobe.

Taking the 1st 2 games of this finals, he had a chance to win as the ball was in his hands and missed both.
Kobe will take many bad shots, like impossible ones, but makes a lot of game winning shots. 

Jordan trumps them both. Takes and makes game winning shots, and doesn't take bad shots.

Lebron is a better "closer" than Kobe...not to mention that Lebron's size allows him to take less difficult shot.
http://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/

Yes. So they're saying even nba coaches and players thinks Kobe is more clutch

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Lbj gets all the stats but when the game was on the line, he either misses shots or don't take them.
There were several late game iso plays where he just passes it back out.  Mj or Kobe will take those shots, make or miss, we've seen a lot of them taking and making last shots to win.

I would totally disagree with this but even assuming it's true...LBJ sets up his team to win for the first 59 minutes and 30 second a lot better than Kobe.

Taking the 1st 2 games of this finals, he had a chance to win as the ball was in his hands and missed both.
Kobe will take many bad shots, like impossible ones, but makes a lot of game winning shots. 

Jordan trumps them both. Takes and makes game winning shots, and doesn't take bad shots.

Lebron is a better "closer" than Kobe...not to mention that Lebron's size allows him to take less difficult shot.
http://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/

Yes. So they're saying even nba coaches and players thinks Kobe is more clutch

Hmmm..perception does not equate reality.

 

[qwerty]

@aw - when you play 20 years you will lead the leaugue in both good and bad categories. Jordan played 12-13.

 

[AW]

Lbj gets all the stats but when the game was on the line, he either misses shots or don't take them.
There were several late game iso plays where he just passes it back out.  Mj or Kobe will take those shots, make or miss, we've seen a lot of them taking and making last shots to win.

I would totally disagree with this but even assuming it's true...LBJ sets up his team to win for the first 59 minutes and 30 second a lot better than Kobe.

Taking the 1st 2 games of this finals, he had a chance to win as the ball was in his hands and missed both.
Kobe will take many bad shots, like impossible ones, but makes a lot of game winning shots. 

Jordan trumps them both. Takes and makes game winning shots, and doesn't take bad shots.

Lebron is a better "closer" than Kobe...not to mention that Lebron's size allows him to take less difficult shot.
http://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/

Yes. So they're saying even nba coaches and players thinks Kobe is more clutch

Hmmm..perception does not equate reality.

They watch the games and tapes all day long, that in itself pulls more weight than some guy pull numbers trying to disprove Kobe < lbj during clutch times

 

[AW]

@aw - when you play 20 years you will lead the leaugue in both good and bad categories. Jordan played 12-13.

And 2 years of baseball during your basketball prime, lol

 

[Irvinecommuter]

@AW...I will take the guy who shoots 42% over the guy who shoot 29%.  Seriously, number don't lie...people do.

 

[qwerty]

The current day player is usually faster and stronger than players from 15, 20, 30 years ago as evidenced by Lebron. This edge in speed and strength allows them to do things better than their predecessors and thus the current day player is typically better. Carl Lewis' best time ranks like 92 of all time in the 100 meter dash.

 

[eyephone]

The current day player is usually faster and stronger than players from 15, 20, 30 years ago as evidenced by Lebron. This edge in speed and strength allows them to do things better than their predecessors and thus the current day player is typically better. Carl Lewis' best time ranks like 92 of all time in the 100 meter dash.

NBA will test for HGH under the league anti-drug policy starting next season. (Who knows who did it before)
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/04/16/nba-and-nbpa-to-introduce-hgh-blood-testing/

 

[jmoney74]

I love the Lakers.. I love Kobe game and I believe he has more "skill" than Lebron does.. however, Lebrons size just gives him the leg up.  If Lebron pulls this ship off.. then he will be no doubt better than Kobe.  Not close to MJ.. but still better than Kobe. 

 

[AW]

But rings don't lie, Kobe has more  ;D

I do agree that lbj does everything else better except for jump shots "clutch" shots, if he had this supposed "killer instinct", lbj > mj
Just my opinion

 

[Irvinecommuter]

But rings don't lie, Kobe has more  ;D

I do agree that lbj does everything else better except for jump shots "clutch" shots, if he had this supposed "killer instinct", lbj > mj
Just my opinion

Moving goalpost...I can't even imagine the number of rings Lebron would win with Gasol and Shaq as teammates.  The best player Lebron played with was a hobbled Wade. 

Why is the jump shot all of a sudden the measurement for "clutch" and since when is shooting 29% considered clutch?

 

[AW]

But rings don't lie, Kobe has more  ;D

I do agree that lbj does everything else better except for jump shots "clutch" shots, if he had this supposed "killer instinct", lbj > mj
Just my opinion

Moving goalpost...I can't even imagine the number of rings Lebron would win with Gasol and Shaq as teammates.  The best player Lebron played with was a hobbled Wade. 

Why is the jump shot all of a sudden the measurement for "clutch" and since when is shooting 29% considered clutch?

When he took his talents to south beach, wade was still at his prime so was bosh, he promised what, 7-8 rings but then abandoned them?
That article showed last 24 seconds, what about last shots and wins, there doesn't need to be an article on why mj or Kobe is clutch and finding numbers to back them up, consensus of nba coaches and players should weigh in more than some writer trying very hard to disprove Kobe not being clutch

 

[Irvinecommuter]

But rings don't lie, Kobe has more  ;D

I do agree that lbj does everything else better except for jump shots "clutch" shots, if he had this supposed "killer instinct", lbj > mj
Just my opinion

Moving goalpost...I can't even imagine the number of rings Lebron would win with Gasol and Shaq as teammates.  The best player Lebron played with was a hobbled Wade. 

Why is the jump shot all of a sudden the measurement for "clutch" and since when is shooting 29% considered clutch?

When he took his talents to south beach, wade was still at his prime so was bosh, he promised what, 7-8 rings but then abandoned them?
That article showed last 24 seconds, what about last shots and wins, there doesn't need to be an article on why mj or Kobe is clutch and finding numbers to back them up, consensus of nba coaches and players should weigh in more than some writer trying very hard to disprove Kobe not being clutch

Abandoned them?  WTH are you talking about about...Kobe was about to go to the Clippers had the Lakers not gotten Gasol. 

The article talks about the last 10 seconds to the last two minutes for regular and postseason.  I never said that Kobe is "not clutch", LBJ is just better.

Yeah...you are a Kobe lover and blinded by that.

 

[qwerty]

I love the Lakers.. I love Kobe game and I believe he has more "skill" than Lebron does.. however, Lebrons size just gives him the leg up.  If Lebron pulls this ship off.. then he will be no doubt better than Kobe.  Not close to MJ.. but still better than Kobe. 

how is lebron better than Kobe but not close to MJ?  what does lebron do better than kobe but not better than mj?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

If Cleveland wins the Finals, will that change any LBJ critics' minds? Seems like no matter what he does, he won't be better than Kobe or Jordan so trying to convince them is pointless.

I think it's remarkable that Lebron has been to 5 Finals in a row, that last time that happened was 1966. And, with 2 different teams, Kobe didn't do that, nor did Jordan. But I guess based on that argument, James Jones is just as good as LBJ.

 

[AW]

But rings don't lie, Kobe has more  ;D

I do agree that lbj does everything else better except for jump shots "clutch" shots, if he had this supposed "killer instinct", lbj > mj
Just my opinion

Moving goalpost...I can't even imagine the number of rings Lebron would win with Gasol and Shaq as teammates.  The best player Lebron played with was a hobbled Wade. 

Why is the jump shot all of a sudden the measurement for "clutch" and since when is shooting 29% considered clutch?

When he took his talents to south beach, wade was still at his prime so was bosh, he promised what, 7-8 rings but then abandoned them?
That article showed last 24 seconds, what about last shots and wins, there doesn't need to be an article on why mj or Kobe is clutch and finding numbers to back them up, consensus of nba coaches and players should weigh in more than some writer trying very hard to disprove Kobe not being clutch

Abandoned them?  WTH are you talking about about...Kobe was about to go to the Clippers had the Lakers not gotten Gasol. 

The article talks about the last 10 seconds to the last two minutes for regular and postseason.  I never said that Kobe is "not clutch", LBJ is just better.

Yeah...you are a Kobe lover and blinded by that.

Yes abandoned them since he actually left. Kobe was with a sorry team after Shaq left pre-gasol.  Kobe never left despite all these inside rumors.
Does the article mention if he was double/ triple team while taking the shots and if they won the game. It's easy to pull up numbers to justify your reasons.
Kobe is a better scorer, takes and makes crazy shots while being double and triple teamed during any time of the game, lbj doesn't have that.  Kobe did score 70, 80 points in a game. 
Not purely a Kobe lover, I did mention that he takes bad shots.  Also lbj does everything else better.  Just the "clutch" shots. Like I said. Nba coaches and players think so too, and they watch and play against Kobe and lbj, not just finding stats behind a computer