Montecito / Sonoma / Carmel Pricing

[quote author="fe9000"]
[quote author="Panda "]
Come this summer, we will see another scary off the cliff experience in the economy like we did in late 2008. All we are doing right now is just kicking the can to the slaughter house. I'm not worried too much about the cash rich Asian FCBs, because in the near term, China's economy is going to be screwed too. [/quote]

Panda,
I honestly don't see off the cliff experience happening. The rules of the game have changed, bad assets are no longer being forced to sell to raise capital. Just look at the short sales and REO being offered in the market place. They are not the deals we have seen in 07 and 08. Things are not getting better, but no more off the cliff experience.[/quote]
The REO tidal wave is not coming. Banks will dribble out REOs and short sales slowly over many years. The gov't/feds/regulators have changed the rules of the playground. Unless some unforeseen bad double-dip recession happens or mortgage rates skyrocket...in my guestimate, home prices may see 5-10% price declines from today's level. My opinion is that mortgage rates will remain between 5-6% for the next several years and home prices will fluctuate between 5% down to 5% up.
 
hey Alex, I hope you don't sense a hint of scarc here, but I really want to congratulate you, I haven't been keeping up with the boards as of late, but I hope you don't let BK's opinions keep you up at night... saying that, I'm sure you'll be paranoid of every little BK thing that happens...

I totally understand the whole renting thing, and I really know it sucks, but the really big difference between you who cash out bubble $$ and me who never participated is that I really don't know any better... all I know, all my life is renting; and I can rent indefinitely... sure I can buy, but once you lived in your own house, you can't really go back, huh?

What we need is, all of you who cashed out bubble equity to go right ahead and put it back in housing, so we can see that $$ get burned up again in the next couple of years... I know you can't compromise your lifestyle with renting... and you can't wait any longer. We need all that bubble equity to disappear before we can get back to any sense of a real economy...
 
[quote author="graceomalley"]AJ,

I don't have much kind word to say because I rarely sugar coat anything,

You bought a glorified detached condo but paid a conventional lot price.

A brand new home is always attractive. Once it is used it will be hard to compete in resale among conventional homes. You will have to lower your price to attract the buyer for lacking the new home smell. This detached condo will always be priced below the conventional lot house in the resale market such as Portisol.

[/quote]

Grace....some may read some of your assessments and believe they come off as harsh, but I really want to thank you for taking the time to provide this analysis. I'm not sure everyone on Talk Irvine knows what a subject matter expert you are....but I do, and I thank you so much for helping me to shape my idea of what a home should (and shouldn't) be. Many, many thanks. And certainly feel free to share the other 81. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->

And for those who have bought in Montecito (I think its common knowledge that Montecito is the most polarizing of all the 2010 homes) please know that your counterpoints are just as welcome and appreciated. Trust me I know more than you may think how powerful a draw new homes and nesting instincts are --- I fight it off every day.
 
I agree with the fact that all of the 2010 collection homes are over priced by 100K. But that said how does it matter if someone can afford that place without too much hardship.

Anyway, The important question I have is would all these negatives for montecito or any other plans go away if the price was 100K lower for each one.

I here comments like I would buy in a heartbeat if it were priced at 700 /750 etc. How does lower price get rid of negatives.

If someone can buy something new or old within their reasonable budget it shouldn't matter.



[quote author="ck"]
[quote author="graceomalley"]AJ,

I don't have much kind word to say because I rarely sugar coat anything,

You bought a glorified detached condo but paid a conventional lot price.

A brand new home is always attractive. Once it is used it will be hard to compete in resale among conventional homes. You will have to lower your price to attract the buyer for lacking the new home smell. This detached condo will always be priced below the conventional lot house in the resale market such as Portisol.

[/quote]

Grace....some may read some of your assessments and believe they come off as harsh, but I really want to thank you for taking the time to provide this analysis. I'm not sure everyone on Talk Irvine knows what a subject matter expert you are....but I do, and I thank you so much for helping me to shape my idea of what a home should (and shouldn't) be. Many, many thanks. And certainly feel free to share the other 81. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->

And for those who have bought in Montecito (I think its common knowledge that Montecito is the most polarizing of all the 2010 homes) please know that your counterpoints are just as welcome and appreciated. Trust me I know more than you may think how powerful a draw new homes and nesting instincts are --- I fight it off every day.[/quote]
 
Agree with CK, much appreciated in sharing your subject matter expert opinion. Where there is an issue there is a way to solve it. The underlying issue beyond everything is still price isn't it? Yes, this is still overpriced. The funny thing about real estate is that everything is relative, and it will trade to the market. Montecito pricing is already a tad below the conventional lot such as Portisol or Campaneli and along the same line of the higher end detach condo in Northwood II such as Bella Rosa.

What amazes me the most out of the 2010 homes is the way TIC came out with these new homes and set a some sort of support pricing level for Irvine Real Estate. I am not saying this price level will hold baring changes in the Economy. They priced these homes exactly where it needs to be relative to the market. In fact, I think they optimized pricing from the beginning and there is not much room for increases. Now that may sound stupid right? even they know, with any unreasonable price increase(like the bubble days) it will kill all the sales momentum they have build up. And for anyone to think buying at this price level to make money and not to live in for the long term, is fooling themselves.

Now if the pricing is at the top, it's stupid for the buyers right? Sure, buying where there is not much upside on the investment. Well, I will just say, there are many other rationalization or reason to buy that I won't get into. FCB or not, most of the buyers now have much more skin in the game and they bought not to make a quick buck(Subprime eerrr FHA buyer maybe different). When the market turns, they won't just turn in the key and have others pick up the slack.
 
[quote author="waitin4ever"]I agree with the fact that all of the 2010 collection homes are over priced by 100K. But that said how does it matter if someone can afford that place without too much hardship.

Anyway, The important question I have is would all these negatives for montecito or any other plans go away if the price was 100K lower for each one.

I here comments like I would buy in a heartbeat if it were priced at 700 /750 etc. How does lower price get rid of negatives.

If someone can buy something new or old within their reasonable budget it shouldn't matter.
[/quote]
This is a good post but what lower pricing gets to is making these homes attainable for people who are NOT FCBs... for 2-income or 1-income households or the median income earning family that doesn't have the luxury of being rich or having a huge down payment.

It's not like my revised pricing is $250/sft (the original prediction for Irvine bottom end from that famous blog)... but it's more reasonable around $300/sft than the ridiculous $325-$350/sf BEFORE upgrades.

Based on fundamentals, the current economy, employment and so forth... these houses are actually luxury-priced but without the luxury. Sure, they are big for their room count... but that's another problem with space inefficiency considering you don't have much lot size.

An 1800sft 3/2 SFR should cost around $550k, that's still $300/sft. Imagine if they took those Montecito plans, reduced their footprint by 500sft gave you more frontage space (ie an entrance and sidewalk). Would you say $550k was a fair price? Heck... even at $650k, getting a more traditional style SFR with a smaller interior, almost the same lot size but a better exterior layout would be good right?

The point here is that TIC overpriced these homes and they know it. Their original pricing was more in line (although still high) for these products yet they still gouged everyone.

They should not have mixed Montecito and Carmel... because those are supposed to be at two different ends of the spectrum for Woodbury.

The question of whether you can afford or not isn't the point of this thread... the question is whether or not you think that price is equitable to what you are receiving.

Like BK said... I guarantee that if everyone complained that the prices were too high... if everyone were more informed about fundamentals and home/location valuation... TIC would have no other choice than to use lower pricing. But, the NHS (new home smell) is strong in Irvine... and I think it's a foregone conclusion that FCBs do indeed have an effect on home prices.

Let's put this in perspective, just 10 years ago... traditional SFRs in Irvine with a driveway and frontyard were $300k... we are supposed to be in a real estate downslide... the credit bubble is gone... jobless rates are at record highs... so if there are any experts out there who can explain this (seems they have all run away)... please do.
 
Some of the points you make is definitely correct. I think a better utilized 1800 sq ft is always much better than inefficient 2200-2300. Especially if both offer the same 3 bd +2.5 bath.

A comparision point is Santa Cruz plan 3, Coronado plan 3 and monterey plan 3. All 3 are in Woodbury east, All 3 offer 3 bd, 2.5 bath + den. 2 are detached and one is attached (so higher HOA). Depending on specific lots they all offer about the same outside yard space. (coronado 3 offers defintely bigger yard). they are all motor court homes. Difference with Monterey is motorcourt is at the back of the house not front like other two (which I think is +ve). Santa cruz has an advantage of being in the middle so away from sand canyon/ trabuco/133.

Relatively similar with few pluses and minuses. But price points are so different. 560/ 645/ 710. what is the premium for detached (by 10 ft) unit. How useful is the extra big master/ extra big inefficient great room or kitchen.

As for the price from 10 years back. The simple reason I think is lower interest rate. If rate go up and prices come down accordingly it shouldn't change too much to the equation as far as monthly outgo. Where it effects is if one plans to sell the place and will only get lesser sale price. But if you get lower rate and put enough down so that you can get by renting out the space rather than selling (during unforseen circumstances in future) then it shouldn't matter.



[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]
[quote author="waitin4ever"]I agree with the fact that all of the 2010 collection homes are over priced by 100K. But that said how does it matter if someone can afford that place without too much hardship.

Anyway, The important question I have is would all these negatives for montecito or any other plans go away if the price was 100K lower for each one.

I here comments like I would buy in a heartbeat if it were priced at 700 /750 etc. How does lower price get rid of negatives.

If someone can buy something new or old within their reasonable budget it shouldn't matter.
[/quote]
This is a good post but what lower pricing gets to is making these homes attainable for people who are NOT FCBs... for 2-income or 1-income households or the median income earning family that doesn't have the luxury of being rich or having a huge down payment.

It's not like my revised pricing is $250/sft (the original prediction for Irvine bottom end from that famous blog)... but it's more reasonable around $300/sft than the ridiculous $325-$350/sf BEFORE upgrades.

Based on fundamentals, the current economy, employment and so forth... these houses are actually luxury-priced but without the luxury. Sure, they are big for their room count... but that's another problem with space inefficiency considering you don't have much lot size.

An 1800sft 3/2 SFR should cost around $550k, that's still $300/sft. Imagine if they took those Montecito plans, reduced their footprint by 500sft gave you more frontage space (ie an entrance and sidewalk). Would you say $550k was a fair price? Heck... even at $650k, getting a more traditional style SFR with a smaller interior, almost the same lot size but a better exterior layout would be good right?

The point here is that TIC overpriced these homes and they know it. Their original pricing was more in line (although still high) for these products yet they still gouged everyone.

They should not have mixed Montecito and Carmel... because those are supposed to be at two different ends of the spectrum for Woodbury.

The question of whether you can afford or not isn't the point of this thread... the question is whether or not you think that price is equitable to what you are receiving.

Like BK said... I guarantee that if everyone complained that the prices were too high... if everyone were more informed about fundamentals and home/location valuation... TIC would have no other choice than to use lower pricing. But, the NHS (new home smell) is strong in Irvine... and I think it's a foregone conclusion that FCBs do indeed have an effect on home prices.

Let's put this in perspective, just 10 years ago... traditional SFRs in Irvine with a driveway and frontyard were $300k... we are supposed to be in a real estate downslide... the credit bubble is gone... jobless rates are at record highs... so if there are any experts out there who can explain this (seems they have all run away)... please do.[/quote]
 
I agree with your assessment of comparing the WBE products.

[quote author="waitin4ever"]
As for the price from 10 years back. The simple reason I think is lower interest rate. If rate go up and prices come down accordingly it shouldn't change too much to the equation as far as monthly outgo.
[/quote]
I don't buy into the higher interest rates = lower prices theory. I posted this on another thread:

http://www.talkirvine.com/index.cgi?board=irvinere&action=display&thread=520

I don't think the reduction will be proportional. In 1999, interest rates were about 7-8%... and they have pretty much steadily fell since then. If rates do get back up there (which will be hard considering inflation, wages, gov't intervention), do you think prices will adjust down to $275/sf? I don't. Real estate is like anti-gravity, easier to go up than down.
 
one HUGE reason why prices are so high today versus ten years ago is that people have indeed made a lot of $$ during the bubble! This besides getting help from parents is something we never really got into detail around here; I think I tried once...

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2704/

the truth is a lot of wealth was created, a lot got burned up, and lot of people lost their shirts! A co-worker cashed out of Corona with $400k; and is renting & waiting at the Enclave...

If the government pass legislation that you can't use proceeds of houses sold during the boom, with higher interest rates then you will immediately see a return of $300 Irvine SRFs...

I still think you LUCK out if you walked away some some $$ from the bubble; call it what you want, like I timed it just right, or I saw it coming! But, you just got lucky off speculation, YOU are part of the problem, just as much as people who lost all their $$ in the bubble; just as much as the banks & wall street... housing is just a place to sleep at night not a slot machine...

All the "winners" from the bubble are coming here, and fueling another speculative bubble... and guess what TIC is laughing all the way to the bank, they are the real winners here...
 
[quote author="graceomalley"]AJ,

I don't have much kind word to say because I rarely sugar coat anything,

You bought a glorified detached condo but paid a conventional lot price.

A brand new home is always attractive. Once it is used it will be hard to compete in resale among conventional homes. You will have to lower your price to attract the buyer for lacking the new home smell. This detached condo will always be priced below the conventional lot house in the resale market such as Portisol.

I will list the top 20 out of 101 reasons why I do not like entry off the alley.

1. Children get hit by cars when coming out from a blind spot. Injury can occur at any speed when cars pulling in to the motor court.

2. Bad feng shui to have entry door facing the sewer line buried below the motor court.

3. Directly across from the neighbor's front door is a feng shui taboo.

4. Neighbors home is smacked 26' from your front. Frontal privacy issues. Problem solved if you live across from IHO and your lot will be a premium lot.

5. 2-1/2 steps from the asphalt to the front door.

6. Crossing over a water gutter along your front door and garage is bad. Drainage of the entire motor court drain across your entry and garage. You have no sidewalk but have to leap over water.

7. You have to walk on motor court to get to your front door. You can't avoid stepping in grease and leaked motor oil.

8. Guests park along the street have to walk up a mud drainage stained asphalt path to find your front door.

9.Utility line below motor court is an easement. During any excavation for repair you will not be able to walk up to your front door and access your garage.

10. Due to tight dimension your neighbors will accidentally back the car into your front door.

11. Constantly dealing with headlights and red taillight glare to your front of your house.

12. Neighbors trash cans will be in front of your front door during trash day.

13. Noise from your neighbors opening the garage and noise from running the cars. Toxic emission pointing to your front door is very bad feng shui.

14. motor court gradient is 1% therefore water ponding will occur after sprinkler irrigation or rain. Mud stain is very unsightly outside your front door.

15.Asphalt driveway surface requires slurry coat every 18 months so be prepared to deal with black tar, smell and tracking it into your home.

16. Neighbor's car wash and water draining across your front door. Water reflected on the car will leave spots on your window.

17. Shoes will get piled up at the door stoop and be ready to accept the eye sore.

18. Seeing your neighbors mess in their garage when they open their garage or leaving it open for cross ventilation or kids playing.

19. Neighbors cars must swerve close to your front door in order to make the turning radius to get into their garage. Traffic engineer calculated 18 trips per day per home and that is 26,280 trips per year for a 4 pack. Chinese driving skill in conjunction with this type of statistic an accident will be likely. For a six pack there will be 40,000 car trips per yr and imagine your kids playing there. All it takes is just one accident out of of the 40,000 trips that will change your life forever.

19. Landscape maintenance must use their blower and all the dust on the motor court will end up on your window screen and leaved drop of dirt on your windows constantly.

20. The short front door path in feng shui symbolizes short career, short future and the lack of opportunities.

I have 81 more reasons but I will stop here.
So let me hear the good reasons or trade offs why the front door is so great 2.5 steps off the alley other than BagOChipO a detached condo to sell for more money.
[/quote]

OK, here goes; I'm gonna respond to some of your downsides.

#1: Come on! Your motorcourt is only 3 homes deep. First off, I wouldn't allow a child who can't be seen by a car outside ALONE with no supervision in the first place. Second, the only people that are going to be driving on the motorcourt are your neighbors, so not many cars will drive by. Yes, there still is a chance that someone will get hurt, but haven't you seen teenagers skateboarding in front of their houses. They either do it on their driveway (Montecito has one) or on the STREET.

#2 and for the rest of the reasons pertaining to Feng Shui: You must be a huge Feng Shui believer. I don't really care about feng shui. When the time comes to sell, I may lose some buyers because of bad feng shui, but still, I'm OK will it.

#3: Your front door is NOT right across from the home on the other side. It's a bit to the side. Go look at some of the Phase 1 and 2 homes, and you will see. Yah, the doors are pretty close, but again, I don't care about Feng Shui.

#4: Yes, I don't particularly like the homes being so close together, but I have my reasons for buying (both in the physical home and personal reasons; see below)

#6. It's the same thing when entering a home on a street. You have to get on the sidewalk somehow, and in order to do that, you have to go in front of the water gutter.

#7: True. But you can't park on the motorcourt, so I doubt a lot of leaked motor oil will be on the motorcourt. Most of this will be on the drive way. And, I don't wear my shoes in the home (I take them off before I enter, or for my guests, they leave them directly inside, not ouside) so it won't be a problem for me.

#8: Yes, I don't like the fact that guests have to park on the street and walk up to motorcourt, but it is what it is. *sigh*

#10: Your neighbor couldn't hit you front door. Your front door is set back a little where a car can't go. Plus, your driveway to directly across from the home across you's driveway. When backing out, if you must, you can go a little bit into their driveway. And if the person happened to hit the house, they would hit your stucco. Which probably does help your case (like CK said), but I'm OK with it. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->

#11: Same as if you were on a street. Sure, the distance would be greater, but you would still experience the same lights and glare. Maybe not as bad, though.

#12: Wrong. Trash cans go out to the end of the motorcourt to the main street on trash pick up days. They are not left on the motorcourt.

#13: Same as if you lived on a street, but the effect could be worse on a motorcourt due to the short distance between homes.

#15: Again, same as if you were on a street. Your home still faces an ASPHALT street, now doesn't it?

#18: Same as if you were on a street. You can still see the garage across from you!!

#20: I don't believe Feng Shui.

I bought because I liked the floorplan and because I needed to buy after renting for so long, as I have already said. Yes, I understand that there are trade-offs, like the motorcourt and you front door being so close to the asphalt, but, also like I said before, the home on the inside meets my needs and I have been waiting to buy for so long, and adding on top of that my personal reasons for buying, I think the good for me outweighed the bad.

And just so you know, you gave me 21 reasons. #19 was twice! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
 
[quote author="ajw522"]

#10: Your neighbor couldn't hit you front door. Your front door is set back a little where a car can't go. Plus, your driveway to directly across from the home across you's driveway. When backing out, if you must, you can go a little bit into their driveway. And if the person happened to hit the house, they would hit your stucco.[/quote]

Sorry, Alex --- I'm cracking up at this one. You might have actually helped made BK's case here. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
 
[quote author="ck"]
[quote author="ajw522"]

#10: Your neighbor couldn't hit you front door. Your front door is set back a little where a car can't go. Plus, your driveway to directly across from the home across you's driveway. When backing out, if you must, you can go a little bit into their driveway. And if the person happened to hit the house, they would hit your stucco.[/quote]

Sorry, Alex --- I'm cracking up at this one. You might have actually helped made BK's case here. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->[/quote]

I know, I thought about that as I was typing it. LOL
 
The motorcourt home is inevitable in today's shrinking lot sizes.

Gone are the days where you have a park-size front yard, your 4-car garage is either on the side or in the back and you still have room for a pool-sized backyard.

Then it went to put the garage in the front, give them a driveway and some front yard.

Then it went to put the garage in the back, no driveway and a little front yard.

But the people protested. They didn't want to enter their homes through the alley, they wanted a driveway for their guests or to wash their car or for their kids to jump rope at.

Aesthetically, a back-alley garage is nicer... but practicality-wise and space-wise, the front garage/motorcourt works. At least they tried to add a driveway which is more than what Santa Cruz gets (although I really like the interiors of Santa Cruz).

If I had to pick between back alley and Montecito, I would definitely choose Montecito just for the utility of the driveway space alone. I do think they could have done a little bit to setback the front entrance or give it more of a presence like the Plan 3 (the renderings in the brochures and online make it look like Plan 1/2 are farther from the motorcourt but the models do not).

And shoes won't be outside, that's what the foyer is for, they made it extra big so the shoes can go there.
 
[quote author="ajw522"]
[quote author="graceomalley"]AJ,

I don't have much kind word to say because I rarely sugar coat anything,

You bought a glorified detached condo but paid a conventional lot price.

A brand new home is always attractive. Once it is used it will be hard to compete in resale among conventional homes. You will have to lower your price to attract the buyer for lacking the new home smell. This detached condo will always be priced below the conventional lot house in the resale market such as Portisol.

I will list the top 20 out of 101 reasons why I do not like entry off the alley.

1. Children get hit by cars when coming out from a blind spot. Injury can occur at any speed when cars pulling in to the motor court.

2. Bad feng shui to have entry door facing the sewer line buried below the motor court.

3. Directly across from the neighbor's front door is a feng shui taboo.

4. Neighbors home is smacked 26' from your front. Frontal privacy issues. Problem solved if you live across from IHO and your lot will be a premium lot.

5. 2-1/2 steps from the asphalt to the front door.

6. Crossing over a water gutter along your front door and garage is bad. Drainage of the entire motor court drain across your entry and garage. You have no sidewalk but have to leap over water.

7. You have to walk on motor court to get to your front door. You can't avoid stepping in grease and leaked motor oil.

8. Guests park along the street have to walk up a mud drainage stained asphalt path to find your front door.

9.Utility line below motor court is an easement. During any excavation for repair you will not be able to walk up to your front door and access your garage.

10. Due to tight dimension your neighbors will accidentally back the car into your front door.

11. Constantly dealing with headlights and red taillight glare to your front of your house.

12. Neighbors trash cans will be in front of your front door during trash day.
]

13. Noise from your neighbors opening the garage and noise from running the cars. Toxic emission pointing to your front door is very bad feng shui.

14. motor court gradient is 1% therefore water ponding will occur after sprinkler irrigation or rain. Mud stain is very unsightly outside your front door.

15.Asphalt driveway surface requires slurry coat every 18 months so be prepared to deal with black tar, smell and tracking it into your home.

16. Neighbor's car wash and water draining across your front door. Water reflected on the car will leave spots on your window.

17. Shoes will get piled up at the door stoop and be ready to accept the eye sore.

18. Seeing your neighbors mess in their garage when they open their garage or leaving it open for cross ventilation or kids playing.

19. Neighbors cars must swerve close to your front door in order to make the turning radius to get into their garage. Traffic engineer calculated 18 trips per day per home and that is 26,280 trips per year for a 4 pack. Chinese driving skill in conjunction with this type of statistic an accident will be likely. For a six pack there will be 40,000 car trips per yr and imagine your kids playing there. All it takes is just one accident out of of the 40,000 trips that will change your life forever.

19. Landscape maintenance must use their blower and all the dust on the motor court will end up on your window screen and leaved drop of dirt on your windows constantly.

20. The short front door path in feng shui symbolizes short career, short future and the lack of opportunities.

I have 81 more reasons but I will stop here.
So let me hear the good reasons or trade offs why the front door is so great 2.5 steps off the alley other than BagOChipO a detached condo to sell for more money.
[/quote]

OK, here goes; I'm gonna respond to some of your downsides.

#1: Come on! Your motorcourt is only 3 homes deep. First off, I wouldn't allow a child who can't be seen by a car outside ALONE with no supervision in the first place. Second, the only people that are going to be driving on the motorcourt are your neighbors, so not many cars will drive by. Yes, there still is a chance that someone will get hurt, but haven't you seen teenagers skateboarding in front of their houses. They either do it on their driveway (Montecito has one) or on the STREET.

I got hit once coming out from a blind spot behind a fat column at Northpark Albertsons. Bollards were installed later. Can you control little kids running out the front door?

#2 and for the rest of the reasons pertaining to Feng Shui: You must be a huge Feng Shui believer. I don't really care about feng shui. When the time comes to sell, I may lose some buyers because of bad feng shui, but still, I'm OK will it. You don't lose some buyers. You lose 60% of the buyers and all FCBs

#3: Your front door is NOT right across from the home on the other side. It's a bit to the side. Go look at some of the Phase 1 and 2 homes, and you will see. Yah, the doors are pretty close, but again, I don't care about Feng Shui. It is still 60% of the buyers.

#4: Yes, I don't particularly like the homes being so close together, but I have my reasons for buying (both in the physical home and personal reasons; see below)

#5 We both agreed

#6. It's the same thing when entering a home on a street. You have to get on the sidewalk somehow, and in order to do that, you have to go in front of the water gutter. You walk on the sidewalk and for a conventional home the back of walk is the path leading to your front door stoop. You do not have to cross the curb and gutter. Calpac's detached condos the front doors are via a paseo

#7: True. But you can't park on the motorcourt, so I doubt a lot of leaked motor oil will be on the motorcourt. Most of this will be on the drive way. And, I don't wear my shoes in the home (I take them off before I enter, or for my guests, they leave them directly inside, not ouside) so it won't be a problem for me. My previous car leaked oil not even in a park position. My current car leaks condensation in any position. This is why the motorcourt is asphalt so to hide oil stains.

#8: Yes, I don't like the fact that guests have to park on the street and walk up to motorcourt, but it is what it is. *sigh* I totally agree and certainly an unimpressive way to welcome your guests.

#10: Your neighbor couldn't hit you front door. Your front door is set back a little where a car can't go. Plus, your driveway to directly across from the home across you's driveway. When backing out, if you must, you can go a little bit into their driveway. And if the person happened to hit the house, they would hit your stucco. Which probably does help your case (like CK said), but I'm OK with it. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> Good luck with this theory for your Asian neighbors.

#11: Same as if you were on a street. Sure, the distance would be greater, but you would still experience the same lights and glare. Maybe not as bad, though. Houses along street will not experience direct glare from lights parallel to the house unless it is at a "T" intersections from perpendicular glare

#12: Wrong. Trash cans go out to the end of the motorcourt to the main street on trash pick up days. They are not left on the motorcourt. OK 12 trash cans at 3' on center =36'. What will happen to guest parking. I am sure no one parks along the street anymore so it is no longer a parking issue

#13: Same as if you lived on a street, but the effect could be worse on a motorcourt due to the short distance between homes. When you live on a street the house across from you is 87' away. In an alley 26' that is 60' less.

#14: We both agreed

#15: Again, same as if you were on a street. Your home still faces an ASPHALT street, now doesn't it? You have the option of walking on concrete sidewalk to your front door while the the street is getting a slurry coating that is well isolated from a concrete sidewalk and 6" below sidewalk grade. You have no choice here but to walk on the slurry coat to get to your front door.

#16 and 17 we both agreed

#18: Same as if you were on a street. You can still see the garage across from you!! Less of a problem when the garage is more than 90' away vs 26'. I hate frontal garages for this reason and especially the IHO style ones.

#19 and 19.1: We both agreed

#20: I don't believe Feng Shui. Good luck in resale when more than 60% of your buyers would rather not take a chance with bad luck. "It is better be safe than sorry" also affect the Caucasian buyers too.

I hope you plan on staying in your home for a very long time!

I bought because I liked the floorplan and because I needed to buy after renting for so long, as I have already said. Yes, I understand that there are trade-offs Not trade-offs Rip-offs, like the motorcourt and you front door being so close to the asphalt, but, also like I said before, the home on the inside meets my needs and I have been waiting to buy for so long, and adding on top of that my personal reasons for buying, I think the good for me outweighed the bad. I won't comment the plan because that will send you to deep buyers remorse.

And just so you know, you gave me 21 reasons. #19 was twice! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->

I like you so I gave you a bonus one.

[/quote]
 
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]The motorcourt home is inevitable in today's shrinking lot sizes.

Gone are the days where you have a park-size front yard, your 4-car garage is either on the side or in the back and you still have room for a pool-sized backyard.[/quote]

IHO, you pretty much sum it up with word "invevitable". If what you say is true, as much as I love Irvine --- I'm beginning to believe it is inevitable we won't see 2011 in the City of Irvine (the lease on our home is up Dec 31, 2010). I'm not moving to another rental, so 2010 is our year to buy. But I'm not convinced we can get a sale done at our price on our leased home based on what I am seeing for comps --- and as much as we try, we just cannot not get past the "I have to pay that for that?!? with respect to the 2010 Collection.

It's been a fine 5 years, oh wonderful Irvine --- but I think we may be in the twilight of our relationship... :-*

Thankfully, all of our extended family lives and thrives in *gasp* --- Los Angeles. They live in gated communities and attend schools with an API of 920+. With K-BBQ spots all around. And houses cost $250 a sq ft there. And if I replace the name of that community with "Irvine" in the attached description, it kind of works. Maybe I'll be ok outside of Irvine, after all.

http://projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/neighborhood/porter-ranch/
 
CK, I can see you living in Valencia or Thousand Oaks and being just as happy.

Whew.. edited. I had to get that last post off my chest <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
 
[quote author="ck"]
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]The motorcourt home is inevitable in today's shrinking lot sizes.

Gone are the days where you have a park-size front yard, your 4-car garage is either on the side or in the back and you still have room for a pool-sized backyard.[/quote]

IHO, you pretty much sum it up with word "invevitable". If what you say is true, as much as I love Irvine --- I'm beginning to believe it is inevitable we won't see 2011 in the City of Irvine (the lease on our home is up Dec 31, 2010). I'm not moving to another rental, so 2010 is our year to buy. But I'm not convinced we can get a sale done at our price on our leased home based on what I am seeing for comps --- and as much as we try, we just cannot not get past the "I have to pay that for that?!? with respect to the 2010 Collection.

It's been a fine 5 years, oh wonderful Irvine --- but I think we may be in the twilight of our relationship... :-*

Thankfully, all of our extended family lives and thrives in *gasp* --- Los Angeles. They live in gated communities and attend schools with an API of 920+. With K-BBQ spots all around. And houses cost $250 a sq ft there. And if I replace the name of that community with "Irvine" in the attached description, it kind of works. Maybe I'll be ok outside of Irvine, after all.

http://projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/neighborhood/porter-ranch/

[/quote]
I'm sorry to hear that your dreams of home ownership in Irvine may not come to pass, but take the opportunity to look at the other great places to live in Orange County where your home will cost 60-100/sf less than in Irvine. Mission Viejo, Fullerton, Laguna Hills, Laguna Niguel, Serrano Heights, Anaheim Hills, Yorba Linda may all be good options for you guys as they have been for some of my buyers. <!-- s:cool: -->:cool:<!-- s:cool: -->
 
[quote author="Panda "]CK, I can see you living in Valencia or Thousand Oaks and being just as happy.

[/quote]

Those are both fine places, Panda --- but each are very bland, with little diversity. And no good food in a reasonable distance. Porter Ranch is much better....and a much better commute to the two offices my Firm has up there (downtown LA and Woodland Hills).
 
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