Immigration Ban
- Thread starter eyephone
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Perspective
Well-known member
What on earth, does it mean to "believe in the pledge of allegiance"?
Though things are not perfect, we do live in one of the best countries in the world. We have freedoms that people in other countries dream of. Many countries with freedom today would probably not if it wasn't for the US. By respecting the American flag, you are respecting the freedoms you are given, and respecting the people that fought for and died to give us those freedoms.peppy said:
I grew up military, and so I'm a bit brainwashed and biased. I've heard some dumbshits here in Irvine insult people for flying the American flag.
Perspective
Well-known member
eyephone said:
Isn't "pride" a deadly sin? Expressing genuine concern when a populist demagogue comes to power demonstrates deep appreciation for one's country.
I don't know. I am ignorant on the matter. I guess I should read up when I get some time.https://www.congressforkids.net/Constitution_threebranches.htmpeppy said:
Is the judiciary reaching too far? Does it have full say on anything the President does? What are the limits of it's power?
tim
New member
spootieho said:
I haven't seen anyone on here say the USA isn't great. (Well, I guess Trump actually says that it isn't great. Saying you want to make it great again means it is not great now. I think it is great now. It's greatness is non-monotonically increasing. We entered a local minimum on Jan 20.) We can love our country, want it to be better, criticize it, and criticize the President all with the same genuine heart. You do to. So why are you asking people about their patriotism?
tim
New member
spootieho said:
In this case, I don't think it is too complicated. The judicial branch checks that the orders from executive branch do not go against laws passed by Congress (and signed by the Pres, or overridden by Congress) or go against the Constitution. They also check that the executive's orders do not go against previous judicial decisions. I suppose this last part is where the conflict comes in. In our land the judicial branch gets the final say in interpreting the laws.
Ready2Downsize
Well-known member
3. Why do you think so many tech companies filed an amicus brief with the suit to stop the ban taking place?
4. Why are you not frightened that Trump either doesn't understand the basics of how our immigration process works or is completely lying about it?
I'll give you two answers:
To Number 3:
All about Money. Tech workers make decent money. Tech companies still want to employ cheap labor if they can do it. If they can't have workers overseas (where they pay them a pittance, don't have to pay social security, health care, etc they will take them here but pay them much less than what techies from here would make (they sponsor the workers who can't just quit and go to another company like home grown workers who don't require H1B visa or green cards). In other words, workers who come here with H1B visas make less money and are more controllable which saves companies in salaries and costs associated with turnover. They are basically indentured servants. How do I know this? My hubby's company is one such company and THAT is the ONLY reason they opposed the ban......... follow the money.
To Number 4:
Presidents can do all kinds of things but there is a system of checks and balances and it will work. Trump isn't a career politician. He needs some polishing and he'll get it.
To the other two questions:
1. What more needs to be done to vet immigrants and refugees?
2. How do you feel about the people that had visas and then had their lives thrown into chaos by the ban?
To Number 1:
No idea. It's not my job to vet them and I have no idea what is involved, so not qualified to answer.
To Number 2:
What difference does it make how I feel to you? Do I ask YOU how you FEEL?
To Tim:
Why are you getting all worked up over Trump? There is nothing you can do. Checks and balances will work everything out. No need to raise your blood pressure. You're not changing anyone's mind here.
4. Why are you not frightened that Trump either doesn't understand the basics of how our immigration process works or is completely lying about it?
I'll give you two answers:
To Number 3:
All about Money. Tech workers make decent money. Tech companies still want to employ cheap labor if they can do it. If they can't have workers overseas (where they pay them a pittance, don't have to pay social security, health care, etc they will take them here but pay them much less than what techies from here would make (they sponsor the workers who can't just quit and go to another company like home grown workers who don't require H1B visa or green cards). In other words, workers who come here with H1B visas make less money and are more controllable which saves companies in salaries and costs associated with turnover. They are basically indentured servants. How do I know this? My hubby's company is one such company and THAT is the ONLY reason they opposed the ban......... follow the money.
To Number 4:
Presidents can do all kinds of things but there is a system of checks and balances and it will work. Trump isn't a career politician. He needs some polishing and he'll get it.
To the other two questions:
1. What more needs to be done to vet immigrants and refugees?
2. How do you feel about the people that had visas and then had their lives thrown into chaos by the ban?
To Number 1:
No idea. It's not my job to vet them and I have no idea what is involved, so not qualified to answer.
To Number 2:
What difference does it make how I feel to you? Do I ask YOU how you FEEL?
To Tim:
Why are you getting all worked up over Trump? There is nothing you can do. Checks and balances will work everything out. No need to raise your blood pressure. You're not changing anyone's mind here.
tim
New member
Ready2Downsize said:
Thank you for answering!
I appreciate your answer to #3. That makes sense to me. My experience with this area has been seeing companies struggle to find qualified people. And they end up sometimes with only 1 good candidate who happens to be from another country. Obviously, I have very limited anecdotal information from just my experience.
Your answer to #4 troubles me. Do you think he doesn't understand the basics of how our immigration process works or do you think he lied? If he lied, that seems bad. That's not a case of him needing polishing. If he just doesn't understand the basics of our immigration process, then he shouldn't be saying he wants to change it. And this, also, isn't an issue of polish. It is an issue of hubris.
Ready2Downsize said:
For #1:
So, if people support the ban (which was put in place just until we improve the vetting process) but "have no idea what is involved", how do you even know if it needs to be improved? I'm not trying to be a jerk here; I just don't get it. What if nothing needs to be improved - would it still be worth disrupting so many lives?
Couldn't the President of the USA have found SOMEONE who could say how to improve the vetting process at this point? He's been talking about this for months. If it were me, I would have had people already detailing this out. Trump says it is urgent to get this figured out, yet he didn't have anyone figuring it out before now?
For #2:
So I shouldn't ask how others feel? Is that a bad thing to ask? I wouldn't mind at all if you ask how I feel about something. I keep getting told to get out of my bubble, so I ask questions to try to understand people. Is it only feeling I shouldn't ask about? Well, I think disagreements come down to an issue over facts or an issue over priority of values. That second one usually involves feelings. Nothing wrong with people having feelings. I'm not sure what nerve I hit here.
As for why I get worked up over Trump. That is a good question. It is important to stand up to bullies. He is a bully. It is also important to call out BS when the leader of our country is spewing it and people are believing it. It seems to me he lies more often than not. I am scared that so many people voted for him. Many of the people that did are not scared at all by him. So I'm also trying to better understand people who support him. This even ends up with me understanding myself better.
I don't know if I am changing anyone's mind. I'm not sure how much of a motivating factor that is for me.
You say there is nothing I can do. Part of me is afraid you are right. I write here as a way to do something. Perhaps it doesn't matter. I don't worry about Trump for my sake. I am a middle-aged, white man with a good job. He won't hurt me. I worry about Trump for the sake of all those that he will hurt. At some point, like every President, he will have to make a decision about sending our troops in to fight. If he does send in troops, some will get killed. If he doesn't send them, other people will get killed. I do not trust him to make a good decision. I guess with the botched raid, he has already done this.
Anyway, I truly thank you for answering. It probably took some courage cuz people (me included) sometimes don't respond well on the internet.
Ready2Downsize
Well-known member
"It is important to stand up to bullies. He is a bully."
Yes, he is a bully.
And when Hillary called half the country "deplorables" I had no real incentive to go out and vote but that to me felt like if I don't support her (which I didn't, not that I supported Trump), I felt she was bullying me and so I voted against her. That alone was enough for me to find some other candidate to vote for, not that it mattered. I knew it wouldn't.
And no I didn't only vote for trump because of that one thing. I actually looked at their policies and my mind was made up....... bully or no, weird personality or not, I voted for Trump.
Do I support that ban? Not the way it was written. It could have been handled better.
Do I support rounding up illegals and kicking their sorry illegal butts out of here? Absolutely. And this knowing they most likely bring buying into our economy and yes it will hurt a whole lot of people (teachers, health care, retail, fast food will all have a whole lot less to do and therefore most likely will face layoffs) and could very well lead to a recession.
So there you have it. I am FOR getting rid of illegals. I am FOR changing the law for birthright citizenship. That alone will take care of a whole lot of illegal immigration and birth motels.
Immigration should be done LEGALLY. There is NO country that allows me to overstay a visa without penalty and deportation. The American Dream is NOT a green card, med-i-cal and food stamps.
And as for these H1 B visas, this is legal immigration but it is forcing tech workers into a LONG period of low paying (compared to home grown techies) work for the same company. It's not about the best and the brightest. It's about the best and the brightest AT THOSE LOWER WAGES and it's all legal. These workers work LONG hours not because the company tells them they have to, it's because they know they cannot get laid off or they'll have to find another job within weeks and of course anyone hiring them knows they are desperate to get a job and lowballs them again. The immigration process needs to be shortened for these workers.... the best and brightest should be paid better and be free to change jobs.
Yes, he is a bully.
And when Hillary called half the country "deplorables" I had no real incentive to go out and vote but that to me felt like if I don't support her (which I didn't, not that I supported Trump), I felt she was bullying me and so I voted against her. That alone was enough for me to find some other candidate to vote for, not that it mattered. I knew it wouldn't.
And no I didn't only vote for trump because of that one thing. I actually looked at their policies and my mind was made up....... bully or no, weird personality or not, I voted for Trump.
Do I support that ban? Not the way it was written. It could have been handled better.
Do I support rounding up illegals and kicking their sorry illegal butts out of here? Absolutely. And this knowing they most likely bring buying into our economy and yes it will hurt a whole lot of people (teachers, health care, retail, fast food will all have a whole lot less to do and therefore most likely will face layoffs) and could very well lead to a recession.
So there you have it. I am FOR getting rid of illegals. I am FOR changing the law for birthright citizenship. That alone will take care of a whole lot of illegal immigration and birth motels.
Immigration should be done LEGALLY. There is NO country that allows me to overstay a visa without penalty and deportation. The American Dream is NOT a green card, med-i-cal and food stamps.
And as for these H1 B visas, this is legal immigration but it is forcing tech workers into a LONG period of low paying (compared to home grown techies) work for the same company. It's not about the best and the brightest. It's about the best and the brightest AT THOSE LOWER WAGES and it's all legal. These workers work LONG hours not because the company tells them they have to, it's because they know they cannot get laid off or they'll have to find another job within weeks and of course anyone hiring them knows they are desperate to get a job and lowballs them again. The immigration process needs to be shortened for these workers.... the best and brightest should be paid better and be free to change jobs.
J
jmoney74
Guest
I agree but immigration needs to be easier to achieve. Seems like it's just a hard process for people wanting an opportunity to change their lives for family.
The visa program needs to go. I have family and friends that get replaced by these workers. It's one thing to outsource, but to ship someone over here to replace you? Wow
The visa program needs to go. I have family and friends that get replaced by these workers. It's one thing to outsource, but to ship someone over here to replace you? Wow
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
It's up to 7 now... and there is a Plus model too.eyephone said:spootieho said:
there's only one eyephone