Immigration Ban

Perspective said:
Trump campaigned, and continues to talk, like the Obama administration did nothing to fight terrorism (and actually claimed Obama created ISIS).
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It's certainly debatable whether ISIS would have been created had Obama (and Sec. Clinton) not destabilized Syria in the first place by initiating regime change against Assad.
 
Happiness said:
Perspective said:
Trump campaigned, and continues to talk, like the Obama administration did nothing to fight terrorism (and actually claimed Obama created ISIS).
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It's certainly debatable whether ISIS would have been created had Obama (and Sec. Clinton) not destabilized Syria in the first place by initiating regime change against Assad.
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That's a fair argument, absent the hyperbole and absurdity of Trump's repeated unapologetic words.

We can't honestly suggest Obama did nothing about terrorism:

Get the data: Drone wars
Obama?s covert drone war in numbers: ten times more strikes than Bushhttps://www.thebureauinvestigates.c...ert-drone-war-numbers-ten-times-strikes-bush/
 
Maybe we will see a better thought out EO.


The last court that threw out the EO said that it threw it out because it targeted Muslims.  Perhaps if these Muslims didn't breed terrorists, they wouldn't be on the terror list.

 
spootieho said:
Maybe we will see a better thought out EO.


The last court that threw out the EO said that it threw it out because it targeted Muslims.  Perhaps if these Muslims didn't breed terrorists, they wouldn't be on the terror list.
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Perhaps, but maybe we should target domestic Christians since they breed terrorists too (abortion clinic shootings/bombings)?
 
Perspective said:
Perhaps, but maybe we should target domestic Christians since they breed terrorists too (abortion clinic shootings/bombings)?
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Because that's a very different thing and you know it.  Bringing that up shows a lack of logic.  Do you want a serious conversation or are you having more fun trolling?  The circumstances are different.

If there's a violent christian country out there that breeds a lot of terrorists and that preaches hate to America, we should also consider additional vetting for them too. 
 
spootieho said:
Perspective said:
Perhaps, but maybe we should target domestic Christians since they breed terrorists too (abortion clinic shootings/bombings)?
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Because that's a very different thing and you know it.  Bringing that up shows a lack of logic.  Do you want a serious conversation or are you having more fun trolling?  The circumstances are different.

If there's a violent christian country out there that breeds a lot of terrorists and that preaches hate to America, we should also consider additional vetting for them too.
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More people in the USA died under the hands of homegrown Christian terrorists than under the hands of Muslim terrorists from the 7 banned countries.
 
spootieho said:
Perspective said:
Perhaps, but maybe we should target domestic Christians since they breed terrorists too (abortion clinic shootings/bombings)?
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Because that's a very different thing and you know it.  Bringing that up shows a lack of logic.  Do you want a serious conversation or are you having more fun trolling?  The circumstances are different.

If there's a violent christian country out there that breeds a lot of terrorists and that preaches hate to America, we should also consider additional vetting for them too.
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It is different, in that domestic terrorists have rights in the US, that foreign terrorists do not. However, it's snark responding to snark, attempting to get people to think.
 
peppy said:
More people in the USA died under the hands of homegrown Christian terrorists than under the hands of Muslim terrorists from the 7 banned countries.
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So what?  You are comparing Apples to Oranges.  How can anyone else take you seriously when you play these logical fallacy games?


 
Perspective said:
It is different, in that domestic terrorists have rights in the US, that foreign terrorists do not. However, it's snark responding to snark, attempting to get people to think.
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It would be nice if you tried to critically think.  Hey, we could have a genuinely considerate conversation.  But instead, you snark with logical fallacies.  How should others respond?  hmm

BTW, there are a lot more differences than the one you mentioned, but the one you mentioned is a valid difference. 
 
I went to Wholesome Choice to pick something up and I was so terrified that one of those foreigners might behead me (nevermind that Persians aren't known for decapitation) .  Thankfully, though, I survived.
 
Loco_local said:
I went to Wholesome Choice to pick something up and I was so terrified that one of those foreigners might behead me (nevermind that Persians aren't known for decapitation) .  Thankfully, though, I survived.
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Were they wearing all black? 
 
spootieho said:
Loco_local said:
I went to Wholesome Choice to pick something up and I was so terrified that one of those foreigners might behead me (nevermind that Persians aren't known for decapitation) .  Thankfully, though, I survived.
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Were they wearing all black?
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Or is that story fake news!  ;)
 
spootieho said:
Perspective said:
It is different, in that domestic terrorists have rights in the US, that foreign terrorists do not. However, it's snark responding to snark, attempting to get people to think.
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It would be nice if you tried to critically think.  Hey, we could have a genuinely considerate conversation.  But instead, you snark with logical fallacies.  How should others respond?  hmm

BTW, there are a lot more differences than the one you mentioned, but the one you mentioned is a valid difference.
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That's where we disagree. I think they're far more similar than they are different. The biggest difference might be that "they" have little to lose killing for the hate, while "we" have a lot to lose killing for our hatred a small percentage of our religious leaders spread.
 
spootieho said:
peppy said:
More people in the USA died under the hands of homegrown Christian terrorists than under the hands of Muslim terrorists from the 7 banned countries.
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So what?  You are comparing Apples to Oranges.  How can anyone else take you seriously when you play these logical fallacy games?
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I'm just stating a fact. What is your objection to this comparison?





 
Perspective said:
That's where we disagree. I think they're far more similar than they are different.
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They are different in too many ways to make the comparison.  The goal of your comparison has dishonest motives.  What is your end game?


They are in another country. 
They are not entitled to enter our country without our permission. 
There are movements in those countries that have the intent to harm us.
They are taught to hate the US.
We are actually at conflict with those countries. 
Those countries made it to the danger list.

As I stated, if you can find a foreign country full of christians that post as high of a threat, then I agree we should better vet people from that country.

On a side note:
- We have already captured quite a few terrorists from those countries in the US.
- There were over 11000 terrorist incidents last year.  Fortunately most of those incidents didn't happen in the US.  Let's try to keep it that way.

 
I was responding to this comment, that I assumed was snark.

"Perhaps if these Muslims didn't breed terrorists, they wouldn't be on the terror list."

My point is we, in the US, also breed terrorists. Plain and simple. You needn't read more into it. There is no dishonesty, ulterior motive, nor end game.
 
Why is the question of how many domestic terrorists we have even relevant to the question of what kinds of foreigners we should admit?
 
Happiness said:
Why is the question of how many domestic terrorists we have even relevant to the question of what kinds of foreigners we should admit?
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Because we are a nation of laws and there is no religious test - we don't just admit barbies and leave out moanas (that excellent  SNL take down of Spicer) . 

Illegal immigrants are perfectly fine as long as they happen to models from Slovenia .  Therein lies the hypocrisy. 

No one is saying don't vet people from terror prone regions - it was already done even under Obama.

Maybe people should stop reading so much Breitbart and watching Fox News and live in the real world  - diverse Irvine and south OC is the real world. If someone doesn't feel comfortable there are other parts of the country where one can bunker in with fellows doomsdayers. 
 
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