ICE or EV?

[Liar Loan]

I also like LL's many inaccurate ones. Tell us again how Tesla did not do well in the EV space.

Open the can, prepare for the worms.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Ahh... so trying to argue on semantics and context. What I meant was you said that Tesla did not do well (EV space or globally... doesn't matter).

This is what you said:

Tesla has been around for over 20 years and they haven't caught on.

Then when I challenged you on this. Your answers were how their sales are decreasing... that doesn't prove your point at all.

The fact is Tesla had a top selling model (the Y) globally and not just in EVs.

But you never admitted you were wrong. They did catch on, their stock value rise demonstrates that... but again, since you don't seem to know much about EVs, you said something without actually knowing the truth.

You like to throw out stuff without proper context... just like saying Irvine had thousands of foreclosures but not also saying that percentage wise compared to other OC cities, Irvine's rate was actually lower (see... I can also play your game).

Answer this simple question using your framework:

Did Tesla catch on or not?

 

[morekaos]

They did catch on, their stock value rise demonstrates that.

So you finally admit that stock prices are a strong indicator of success…thank you…you know agree with me that overall…. EV’s have failed spectacularly…as indicated by the total collapse of their equity prices (which i predicted)…..we can close this thread now!

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I've said that in the past, it's an indicator but not the only indicator.

Yes... you can stop posting in this thread now. Please.

 

[morekaos]

It’s the strongest, unbiased indicator…dollars and cents never lie…losses tell the tale….failure

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I thought this thread was closed to you?

 

[morekaos]

I thought this thread was closed to you?

Apparently I still need to correct you so…not yet.

 

[Liar Loan]

Did Tesla catch on or not?

With 19 larger auto makers and 98% of sales volume in 2025 not being Telsa .... .... I'm going to say no.

I guess you could say Tesla is about half as popular as such heavy hitters as Suzuki and Renault.

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Here’s a 2025 global ranking of automakers by sales volume, expanded to the top 20. The list is based on available global full-year data for vehicle deliveries — including passenger cars, trucks, and commercial vehicles — from industry sales reports and compilations from multiple sources.

Global Automaker Sales Ranking — 2025 (Top 20)​

Rank	Automaker / Group	2025 Sales (Approx.)
1	Toyota Motor Corporation – Japan	~11.32 M vehicles
2	Volkswagen Group – Germany	~8.98 M
3	Hyundai Motor Group – S. Korea	~7.27 M
4	General Motors (GM) – USA	~6.18 M
5	Stellantis – NL / multinational	~5.48 M
6	BYD Auto – China	~4.60 M
7	SAIC Motor – China	~4.51 M
8	Ford Motor Company – USA	~4.40 M
9	Geely Holding Group – China	~4.12 M
10	Honda Motor Co. – Japan	~3.52 M
11	Suzuki Motor Corporation – Japan	~3.30 M
12	Nissan Motor Co. – Japan	~3.20 M
13	Changan Automobile – China	~2.91 M
14	BMW Group – Germany	~2.46 M
15	Renault Group – France	~2.34 M
16	Mercedes-Benz Group – Germany	~2.16 M
17	Great Wall Motor – China	~1.32 M (brand group)
18	SAIC-GM-Wuling (joint venture) – China	~1.64 M
19	Tata Motors – India* (estimated high volume cohort)	— (industry estimate)
20	Tesla Inc. – USA	~1.6–1.8 M (estimated deliveries)

Tesla delivered about 1.64 million vehicles worldwide in 2025.​

• Although exact total global vehicle sales for 2025 aren’t finalized in public sources, industry forecasts and historical figures suggest total global light-vehicle (cars + light trucks) sales were around ~83 million units in 2025.

Estimated Tesla global market share:

1.64 M / 83 M ≈ 2.0%

Tesla’s share of the total global auto market in 2025 is roughly ~2 % of all vehicles sold worldwide.

 

[zovall]

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Liar Loan must not know the definition of "caught on":

Model Y was a top selling model in the world in at least 2 of the last 5 years.

Tesla only has 4 models. Maybe you can ask morekaos to do the math to compare that ratio to understand the definition.

It's okay... you're probably still doing the Irvine foreclosure rate math.

ChatGPT: A friend of mine said "Tesla has been around for over 20 years and they haven't caught on." is that true?

Here’s what’s factually true about Tesla and the claim your friend made:

How long Tesla has existed​

• Tesla, Inc. was founded in July 2003, originally as Tesla Motors. (Wikipedia)
• That means the company is about 22–23 years old as of early 2026. (Reference.org)

So yes — Tesla has been around for more than 20 years.

“They haven’t caught on” — is that true?​

That part isn’t accurate. Tesla has become one of the most successful electric-vehicle makers in the world:

Market presence

• Tesla is one of the largest EV producers globally and for several years has been the world’s most valuable automaker by market cap. (Wikipedia)

Vehicle adoption

• Tesla’s Model 3 and Model Y are among the best-selling electric cars worldwide and have sold in the hundreds of thousands to millions of units. (Exact numbers change year-to-year, but sales are strong.) (matrixbcg.com)

Industry influence

• The company has a major impact on the EV market, including mass production, charging infrastructure, and influencing other automakers to accelerate their EV programs. (Not an obscure niche maker at all.)

Why some people might​

There are a few reasons someone might say that, depending on their perspective:

• Penetration vs. overall auto market: Electric vehicles still represent a minority of total car sales globally, even though growth is fast.
• Expectations: Some early Tesla promises (like fully autonomous robotaxis or certain models) have faced delays.
• Competition: Legacy automakers and new EV makers are catching up in sales and technology.

But as a brand and auto company, Tesla has “caught on” — it’s widely known and its cars are sold in many countries and in significant volumes.

Summary​

• Tesla has existed for over 20 years (since 2003). (Reference.org)
• The idea that it “hasn’t caught on” isn’t supported by how widely its cars are sold and how large its global impact is today.

If you want, I can share recent sales figures to show how Tesla’s adoption compares to overall auto market sales.

 

[Liar Loan]

I'm honored that you would tell ChatGPT that I am a friend of yours, but it still doesn't agree with you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LL: So after 23 years of existence, it's fair to say that Tesla hasn't caught on in terms of sales?

ChatGPT: Yes — that’s a fair assessment in terms of total global auto sales.

LL: What good is global recognition if it doesn't translate into sales?

ChatGPT: Exactly — global recognition is only valuable if it drives real-world outcomes, like sales, influence, or strategic leverage. Tesla is a prime example of a company with tremendous brand visibility but a relatively small share of the overall global auto market.

In short: Tesla’s fame has changed the EV world, but brand recognition without scale sales is like being famous on social media but not making money from it — influential, but still limited in tangible market impact.

LL: So with limited tangible market impact, can you really defend the statement that Tesla has "caught on"?

ChatGPT: No — if we define “caught on” in the classic sense of mainstream market penetration and sales dominance, Tesla has not really caught on globally.

Conclusion​

• Tesla has caught on culturally and in the EV niche, but in the broader global auto market, it has not caught on.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I use “friend” so that ChatGPT doesn’t give a biased answer like your prompts gave it.

 

[Liar Loan]

Tesla has caught on culturally and in the EV niche, but in the broader global auto market, it has not caught on.

There's nothing biased about this. I don't see how anybody could argue with it.

 

[morekaos]

There's nothing biased about this. I don't see how anybody could argue with it.

The singularity has spoken!!