Had my M3 Performance serviced today - tire rotation, cabin air filter etc. had a brake squeak after reversing however guidance was after “only” 52 K miles it was just dirt buildup on the Brembos - I was concerned about warped rotors. What performance car has brakes looking nearly new after 50K miles? I mentioned this to a guy at the restaurant I was at tonight and he called the M3P a Ferrari- eater. A little hyperbolic but for $60K nothing comes within miles .
ICE or EV?
- Thread starter irvinehomeowner
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Now I have two Teslas in my garage. If I had a reason to buy another Tesla today I would do it.
True... Hitler had VW & Mercedes. Trump has Tesla.
It's hard for me to understand why these leaders fall into these political traps, but I think many of them have huge egos and have higher aspirations of running for office or being appointed to some cushy ambassadorship. They believe virtue signaling will build their political capital.
morekaos
Well-known member
…and selling things people want common sense returns to the executive suite….ICE still rules the roost.
Stellantis’ $10 Billion Gamble Could Bring Back Dodge And Chrysler V8 Muscle Cars
Big investment in US brands will also focus on strengthening Jeep and might lead to Chrysler’s expansion
Stellantis’ $10 Billion Gamble Could Bring Back Dodge And Chrysler V8 Muscle Cars | Carscoops
Stellantis’ $10 Billion Gamble Could Bring Back Dodge And Chrysler V8 Muscle Cars
Big investment in US brands will also focus on strengthening Jeep and might lead to Chrysler’s expansion
- Embattled Stellantis wants to invest around $10 billion in its US operations.
- It thinks focusing on Jeep, Dodge, and possibly Chrysler will boost profits.
- A V8-powered Dodge muscle car is reportedly under consideration.
Stellantis’ $10 Billion Gamble Could Bring Back Dodge And Chrysler V8 Muscle Cars | Carscoops
qwerty
Well-known member
I don’t think anyone wants what Stellantis has to offer. All of their cars are garbage…and selling things people want common sense returns to the executive suite….ICE still rules the roost.
Stellantis’ $10 Billion Gamble Could Bring Back Dodge And Chrysler V8 Muscle Cars
Big investment in US brands will also focus on strengthening Jeep and might lead to Chrysler’s expansion
The Charger Daytona EV is a flop, and although there’s much more interest in the Hurricane combustion Chargers, many fans would certainlyprefer a V8. And though not part of the original plan, that’s looking more possible now that the Trump administration has relaxed emissions requirements.
- Embattled Stellantis wants to invest around $10 billion in its US operations.
- It thinks focusing on Jeep, Dodge, and possibly Chrysler will boost profits.
- A V8-powered Dodge muscle car is reportedly under consideration.
Stellantis’ $10 Billion Gamble Could Bring Back Dodge And Chrysler V8 Muscle Cars | Carscoops
someguy
Well-known member
I picked up a new Model 3 two weeks ago. Absolutely my favorite car to drive. So quiet, smooth, and efficient. Tesla service has been exceptional with fixing a few details. They gave me a free loaner with free super charging while they work on my car (paint stuff).
Now I have two Teslas in my garage. If I had a reason to buy another Tesla today I would do it.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
See morekaos, there are non-left who drive EVs. 
morekaos
Well-known member
Oh contrare’….there are fewer to buy and fewer to sell them. This is the stasis that I always advocated for…free markets…I was never against EV’s… just not on my dime…sink or swim…eat what you kill economics…that’s what I like….
The $7,500 federal “incentive” dangled as an inducement to move the EV needle has expired. This means EV sales — if you want to use that word to describe a transaction involving the buyer, the seller, and you, the party who is taxed to “help” facilitate it — are likely to slide even farther below the waterline than they already were. This tends to happen when people are obliged to pay full price for a thing that is only tempting to them when it is heavily discounted — like those half-off dented cans of soup you sometimes see on sale at the supermarket.
…the government never does that. It only “incentivizes” that which is unwanted by most of us — who are also the ones “helping” to pay for the “incentives” awarded to the few who do.
With the “incentive” to buy electric vehicles gone, the incentive to try selling them is, too. Dodge just announced it won’t be trying to sell the highest-performance iteration of its “electrified” Charger, the Banshee, leaving just one iteration of this electric high-performance car — Dodge’s attempt to sell a Tesla — available, with total cancellation inevitable as the thing has been a sales disaster for Dodge.
“Stellantis continues to reassess its product strategy to align with consumer demand. Our plan ensures we offer customers a range of vehicles with flexible powertrain options that best meet their needs. With the great news announced in July that Stellantis is bringing back its iconic SRT performance division (Street and Racing Technology), it follows that we are also reviewing the plan for future SRT vehicles.”
Ford’s CEO, Jim Farley, publicly admitted the other day that the ending of the “incentives” is going to cut EV sales in half.
Farley on Tuesday said he “wouldn’t be surprised” if sales of EVs fell from a market share of around 10-12 percent this month, which is expected to be a record, to 5 percent after the incentive program ends.“I think it’s going to be a vibrant industry, but it’s going to be smaller, way smaller than we thought, especially with the policy change in the tailpipe emissions, plus the $7,500 consumer incentive going away.”
Just before the inevitable plunge. It was sad to watch that happen in the movie; all those people clinging to life for a little while longer. But it’s wonderfully enjoyable to watch the EV ship go down. Not out of contempt for EVs but contempt for the way they’ve been pushed on us in a manner not unlike the drugs of Pfizer, et al were pushed on people. EVs, as such, are just another alternative, and there’s nothing objectionable about presenting alternatives to people, who are free to buy them or not.
The objectionable thing is the way alternatives to EVs were being pushed off the market via nonsense such as “tailpipe emissions” (sic) regulations that were designed to mislead people and to shove people into EVs, leaving no alternative to them.
Celebrating the End of EVs | The American Spectator | USA News and Politics
Celebrating the End of EVs
At least the government incentives that distort the market.
At least the government incentives that distort the market.
The $7,500 federal “incentive” dangled as an inducement to move the EV needle has expired. This means EV sales — if you want to use that word to describe a transaction involving the buyer, the seller, and you, the party who is taxed to “help” facilitate it — are likely to slide even farther below the waterline than they already were. This tends to happen when people are obliged to pay full price for a thing that is only tempting to them when it is heavily discounted — like those half-off dented cans of soup you sometimes see on sale at the supermarket.
…the government never does that. It only “incentivizes” that which is unwanted by most of us — who are also the ones “helping” to pay for the “incentives” awarded to the few who do.
With the “incentive” to buy electric vehicles gone, the incentive to try selling them is, too. Dodge just announced it won’t be trying to sell the highest-performance iteration of its “electrified” Charger, the Banshee, leaving just one iteration of this electric high-performance car — Dodge’s attempt to sell a Tesla — available, with total cancellation inevitable as the thing has been a sales disaster for Dodge.
“Stellantis continues to reassess its product strategy to align with consumer demand. Our plan ensures we offer customers a range of vehicles with flexible powertrain options that best meet their needs. With the great news announced in July that Stellantis is bringing back its iconic SRT performance division (Street and Racing Technology), it follows that we are also reviewing the plan for future SRT vehicles.”
Ford’s CEO, Jim Farley, publicly admitted the other day that the ending of the “incentives” is going to cut EV sales in half.
Farley on Tuesday said he “wouldn’t be surprised” if sales of EVs fell from a market share of around 10-12 percent this month, which is expected to be a record, to 5 percent after the incentive program ends.“I think it’s going to be a vibrant industry, but it’s going to be smaller, way smaller than we thought, especially with the policy change in the tailpipe emissions, plus the $7,500 consumer incentive going away.”
Just before the inevitable plunge. It was sad to watch that happen in the movie; all those people clinging to life for a little while longer. But it’s wonderfully enjoyable to watch the EV ship go down. Not out of contempt for EVs but contempt for the way they’ve been pushed on us in a manner not unlike the drugs of Pfizer, et al were pushed on people. EVs, as such, are just another alternative, and there’s nothing objectionable about presenting alternatives to people, who are free to buy them or not.
The objectionable thing is the way alternatives to EVs were being pushed off the market via nonsense such as “tailpipe emissions” (sic) regulations that were designed to mislead people and to shove people into EVs, leaving no alternative to them.
Celebrating the End of EVs | The American Spectator | USA News and Politics
Liar Loan
Well-known member
See morekaos, there are non-left who drive EVs.
True... Hitler had VW & Mercedes. Trump has Tesla.
morekaos
Well-known member
And Ferrari cuts its future EV production by 50% without ever bringing and EV to market….Smart company that reads the room well…pile in …
Ferrari said it would target a 2030 sports car model line-up made up of 40% internal combustion engine (ICE) cars, 40% hybrid and 20% fully electric vehicles.
Ferrari said the revised target, which is down from a prior goal of 40% EV sales by the end of the decade, is the result of a client-centric approach, the current environment and its expected evolution.
The pivot comes as the Italian carmaker lifted the hood on the technology set to power its maiden electric vehicle. Ferrari unveiled the production-ready chassis and powertrain of the “elettrica” during a technology and innovation workshop, saying it would start deliveries of the model in late 2026.
The completed car is expected to be launched at a global premiere next year.
Electric ambitions
Several global carmakers have scaled back their EV sales targets in recent months, citing factors such a lack of affordable models, a slower-than-anticipated rollout of charging points and intense competition from China.
Sweden’s Volvo Cars, for instance, abandoned its heavily promoted plan to sell only EVs by 2030, saying in September last year that it needed to be “pragmatic and flexible” amid changing market conditions.
Ferrari unveils first electric vehicle and cuts 2030 EV sales target
Ferrari said it would target a 2030 sports car model line-up made up of 40% internal combustion engine (ICE) cars, 40% hybrid and 20% fully electric vehicles.
Ferrari said the revised target, which is down from a prior goal of 40% EV sales by the end of the decade, is the result of a client-centric approach, the current environment and its expected evolution.
The pivot comes as the Italian carmaker lifted the hood on the technology set to power its maiden electric vehicle. Ferrari unveiled the production-ready chassis and powertrain of the “elettrica” during a technology and innovation workshop, saying it would start deliveries of the model in late 2026.
The completed car is expected to be launched at a global premiere next year.
Electric ambitions
Several global carmakers have scaled back their EV sales targets in recent months, citing factors such a lack of affordable models, a slower-than-anticipated rollout of charging points and intense competition from China.
Sweden’s Volvo Cars, for instance, abandoned its heavily promoted plan to sell only EVs by 2030, saying in September last year that it needed to be “pragmatic and flexible” amid changing market conditions.
Ferrari unveils first electric vehicle and cuts 2030 EV sales target
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Still producing an EV.
I read an article that the top 2 most powerful cars in the world are electric.
I read an article that the top 2 most powerful cars in the world are electric.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
morekaos touch
morekaos
Well-known member
I was a buyer today
morekaos
Well-known member
“Insanity” and “Virtue signaling” have a serious and significant cost…in the case of GM $Billions….hopefully (for shareholders)…lesson learned…
GM to take $1.6 billion charge related to EV pullback
· General Motors’ third quarter results next week will include a $1.6 billion impact from its all-electric vehicle plans not playing out as anticipated.
· GM said its reassessment of its EV capacity and manufacturing footprint is “ongoing,” signaling additional charges could be announced later.
· GM’s EV charges comes more than a year after crosstown rival Ford Motor announced a $1.9 billion impact from changing its EV plans.
“Following recent U.S. Government policy changes, including the termination of certain consumer tax incentives for EV purchases and the reduction in the stringency of emissions regulations, we expect the adoption rate of EVs to slow,” GM said in the filing.
“There’s a lot of tough decisions that are going to need to be made,” Murphy, who’s now with Haig Partners, said in June during an event for Bank of America’s “Car Wars” report. “Based on the study, I think we’re going to see multibillion-dollar write-downs that are flooding the headlines for the next few years.”
GM’s EV pullback charges come more than a year after crosstown rival Ford Motor announced a $1.9 billion impact from its EV plans.
GM to take $1.6 billion charge related to EV pullback
GM to take $1.6 billion charge related to EV pullback
· General Motors’ third quarter results next week will include a $1.6 billion impact from its all-electric vehicle plans not playing out as anticipated.
· GM said its reassessment of its EV capacity and manufacturing footprint is “ongoing,” signaling additional charges could be announced later.
· GM’s EV charges comes more than a year after crosstown rival Ford Motor announced a $1.9 billion impact from changing its EV plans.
“Following recent U.S. Government policy changes, including the termination of certain consumer tax incentives for EV purchases and the reduction in the stringency of emissions regulations, we expect the adoption rate of EVs to slow,” GM said in the filing.
“There’s a lot of tough decisions that are going to need to be made,” Murphy, who’s now with Haig Partners, said in June during an event for Bank of America’s “Car Wars” report. “Based on the study, I think we’re going to see multibillion-dollar write-downs that are flooding the headlines for the next few years.”
GM’s EV pullback charges come more than a year after crosstown rival Ford Motor announced a $1.9 billion impact from its EV plans.
GM to take $1.6 billion charge related to EV pullback
morekaos
Well-known member
“Collapse and consolidation” in the market….hmmmm…who has predicted that all along?….
‘Car Wars’: Five auto insights investors should know from top BofA analyst
· The automotive industry is experiencing unprecedented disruption and uncertainty regarding regulations, electric vehicle adoption, software innovations and competition from China.
· Many of the issues are coming to a head sooner rather than later, causing chaos for automakers and their plans for new vehicles, according to Bank of America.
· The bank’s top auto analyst predicts investors will see billions of dollars in expected write-downs for EVs, a retrench to “core” businesses and a potential collapse and consolidation of the automotive industry in China.
Due to that volatility and uncertainty, Murphy said automakers must lean heavily into their core products, including internal combustion engines, to generate capital.
“What you’re seeing in China is a bit disturbing because there is a lack of demand; there’s extreme price cutting, and there’s a lot of export that’s rising, particularly over the last four or five years. Essentially net neutral to over 7 million units last year,” Murphy said.
The top BofA analyst described this as the Chinese market beginning to “implode on itself” due to the price war, which is expected to cause mass consolidation of China’s hundreds of automotive brands.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/06/05/auto-industry-investors.html?&qsearchterm=car wars
‘Car Wars’: Five auto insights investors should know from top BofA analyst
· The automotive industry is experiencing unprecedented disruption and uncertainty regarding regulations, electric vehicle adoption, software innovations and competition from China.
· Many of the issues are coming to a head sooner rather than later, causing chaos for automakers and their plans for new vehicles, according to Bank of America.
· The bank’s top auto analyst predicts investors will see billions of dollars in expected write-downs for EVs, a retrench to “core” businesses and a potential collapse and consolidation of the automotive industry in China.
Due to that volatility and uncertainty, Murphy said automakers must lean heavily into their core products, including internal combustion engines, to generate capital.
“What you’re seeing in China is a bit disturbing because there is a lack of demand; there’s extreme price cutting, and there’s a lot of export that’s rising, particularly over the last four or five years. Essentially net neutral to over 7 million units last year,” Murphy said.
The top BofA analyst described this as the Chinese market beginning to “implode on itself” due to the price war, which is expected to cause mass consolidation of China’s hundreds of automotive brands.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/06/05/auto-industry-investors.html?&qsearchterm=car wars
Liar Loan
Well-known member
Buffet often talks about investing in companies with strong management. This is a prime example of what he is talking about. You want management teams that have a realistic view of the world, not those that are pursuing an unrelated agenda.“Insanity” and “Virtue signaling” have a serious and significant cost…in the case of GM $Billions….hopefully (for shareholders)…lesson learned…
GM to take $1.6 billion charge related to EV pullback
· General Motors’ third quarter results next week will include a $1.6 billion impact from its all-electric vehicle plans not playing out as anticipated.
· GM said its reassessment of its EV capacity and manufacturing footprint is “ongoing,” signaling additional charges could be announced later.
· GM’s EV charges comes more than a year after crosstown rival Ford Motor announced a $1.9 billion impact from changing its EV plans.
“Following recent U.S. Government policy changes, including the termination of certain consumer tax incentives for EV purchases and the reduction in the stringency of emissions regulations, we expect the adoption rate of EVs to slow,” GM said in the filing.
“There’s a lot of tough decisions that are going to need to be made,” Murphy, who’s now with Haig Partners, said in June during an event for Bank of America’s “Car Wars” report. “Based on the study, I think we’re going to see multibillion-dollar write-downs that are flooding the headlines for the next few years.”
GM’s EV pullback charges come more than a year after crosstown rival Ford Motor announced a $1.9 billion impact from its EV plans.
GM to take $1.6 billion charge related to EV pullback
It's hard for me to understand why these leaders fall into these political traps, but I think many of them have huge egos and have higher aspirations of running for office or being appointed to some cushy ambassadorship. They believe virtue signaling will build their political capital.
morekaos
Well-known member
Exactly, when management does not run a company to profit the system will correct itself and replace them with someone who will. This is what I have said for years….foolish, virtues signaling does not make money. CEO’s are being replaced at astonishing velocity by the profit minded and shareholder aware. You have to admit your mistakes before you can correct them…Ford is doing that now…
Ford CEO Admits Automakers Didn’t Consider Their Customers When Going ‘Full Bore’ Into EVs
American automakers have long prided themselves on building vehicles that meet the real needs of hardworking families and businesses across the country. Yet, recent revelations from Ford’s leadership paint a different picture when it comes to the rush into electric vehicles. Former Ford CEO Mark Fields openly acknowledged that the industry charged ahead with massive EV investments, overlooking what consumers actually wanted.
Fields, who led Ford from 2014 to 2017, pointed out the misstep during a discussion on the rapid buildup of EV production. “Over the last couple of years, the automakers really went full bore in putting in capacity for EVs,” he said. This aggressive push came without enough thought to buyer preferences, leaving companies like Ford and GM facing unexpected market realities.
The fallout shows up in hard numbers. General Motors recently took a $1.6 billion hit to realign its EV operations, scaling back amid slower-than-expected adoption. Fields noted how such overconfidence backfired: “This is clearly an issue where the market didn’t develop the way automakers thought. A lot of them, particularly in GM’s case, boasted that they had the full lineup of EVs.”
“I think it’s going to be a vibrant industry, but it’s going to be smaller, way smaller than we thought,” he stated.
Ford CEO Admits Automakers Didn't Consider Their Customers When Going 'Full Bore' Into EVs -
The Liberty Daily
Ford CEO Admits Automakers Didn’t Consider Their Customers When Going ‘Full Bore’ Into EVs
American automakers have long prided themselves on building vehicles that meet the real needs of hardworking families and businesses across the country. Yet, recent revelations from Ford’s leadership paint a different picture when it comes to the rush into electric vehicles. Former Ford CEO Mark Fields openly acknowledged that the industry charged ahead with massive EV investments, overlooking what consumers actually wanted.
Fields, who led Ford from 2014 to 2017, pointed out the misstep during a discussion on the rapid buildup of EV production. “Over the last couple of years, the automakers really went full bore in putting in capacity for EVs,” he said. This aggressive push came without enough thought to buyer preferences, leaving companies like Ford and GM facing unexpected market realities.
The fallout shows up in hard numbers. General Motors recently took a $1.6 billion hit to realign its EV operations, scaling back amid slower-than-expected adoption. Fields noted how such overconfidence backfired: “This is clearly an issue where the market didn’t develop the way automakers thought. A lot of them, particularly in GM’s case, boasted that they had the full lineup of EVs.”
“I think it’s going to be a vibrant industry, but it’s going to be smaller, way smaller than we thought,” he stated.
Ford CEO Admits Automakers Didn't Consider Their Customers When Going 'Full Bore' Into EVs -
The Liberty Daily
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Superior product will always have slow adoption especially without proper infrastructure.
None of what you post says that EVs are inferior to ICE.
And again, this thread's poll says that more TI users will get EVs than ICE.
You can't even comment on the qualities and features of an EV has until you get one. That's like people who comment on Irvine homes and don't live in Irvine.
None of what you post says that EVs are inferior to ICE.
And again, this thread's poll says that more TI users will get EVs than ICE.
You can't even comment on the qualities and features of an EV has until you get one. That's like people who comment on Irvine homes and don't live in Irvine.