God?

[Mety]

No testing on my end no matter how well and fancy you write your words of me. You seem to take things too far most of the time. Try to stay within what?s being posted only.

None of what you said is what I said so please try again.

You literally stated that the SK churches don't count because they are bad churches and that good churches will stay protected. 

You then used MacArthur's church as some sort of test case/evidence to support your contention but then ignore the other churches who have taken similar stances but then were affected by COVID. 

This need to be "right" and "wrong" is very weird to me...God laments the loss of any life, whether we consider them to be "good" or "bad"...and yet you seem to waive them off as collateral damage.

Where is this whole right or wrong, good or bad coming from?
For Grace church, just wait and see if they have thousands of new cases soon. They should if Covid is so deadly right? It?s not a test. Just trying to see how severe this virus really is.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Of course John MacArthur would say this...

During Sunday?s sermon, MacArthur suggested that churches that close are not true churches. ?There has never been a time when the world didn?t need the message of the true church,? he said. ?I have to say, ?true church.? I hate to think of that, but there?s so many false forms of the church. Let them shut down.?

https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...worship-covid-john-macarthur-greg-laurie.html

Sorry...apparently everyone else is doing it wrong.

So you think MacArthur is a false teacher? It?s a yes or no question. Please...

It doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion...whether he is or is not has zero relevance to COVID.

If he gets COVID and dies, it doesn't automatically make him a false teacher.  Conversely, if him and his church are not materially affected by COVID does not make him not a false teacher.

Again, I am not the one using COVID as some sort of God's judgment like you and John MacArthur are doing.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

No testing on my end no matter how well and fancy you write your words of me. You seem to take things too far most of the time. Try to stay within what?s being posted only.

None of what you said is what I said so please try again.

You literally stated that the SK churches don't count because they are bad churches and that good churches will stay protected. 

You then used MacArthur's church as some sort of test case/evidence to support your contention but then ignore the other churches who have taken similar stances but then were affected by COVID. 

This need to be "right" and "wrong" is very weird to me...God laments the loss of any life, whether we consider them to be "good" or "bad"...and yet you seem to waive them off as collateral damage.

Where is this whole right or wrong, good or bad coming from?
For Grace church, just wait and see if they have thousands of new cases soon. They should if Covid is so deadly right? It?s not a test. Just trying to see how severe this virus really is.

That's exactly what the pastors in SK said...as well as those pastors I listed above.  This is not some sort of scientific/social experiment.  Pastors don't get to play public health experts just like public health experts don't get to play pastor. 

A pastor's job is to protect his flock..both spiritually and physically.  What John MacArthur is doing is negligence IMO. 

He believes that his ability to lead his congregation is greater than God's ability to keep that congregation whole and spiritual.

And then he condemn all the other churches for not following him. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

How do you know it wasn't God who inspired Newsome to issue those initial stay at home orders?

What if it's God who is guiding all these officials in setting up these guidelines to keep people safe?

You are a drowning man.

You right. I don?t know. Did I ever say Newsom was devil? How many times do I have to say I was simply talking about my concerns for church? You don?t have any concerns for church so maybe you don?t get it.

You did say that the orders were contrary to God's orders...not sure how else to interpret that.

 

[Mety]

Of course John MacArthur would say this...

During Sunday?s sermon, MacArthur suggested that churches that close are not true churches. ?There has never been a time when the world didn?t need the message of the true church,? he said. ?I have to say, ?true church.? I hate to think of that, but there?s so many false forms of the church. Let them shut down.?

https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...worship-covid-john-macarthur-greg-laurie.html

Sorry...apparently everyone else is doing it wrong.

So you think MacArthur is a false teacher? It?s a yes or no question. Please...

It doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion...whether he is or is not has zero relevance to COVID.

If he gets COVID and dies, it doesn't automatically make him a false teacher.  Conversely, if him and his church are not materially affected by COVID does not make him not a false teacher.

Again, I am not the one using COVID as some sort of God's judgment like you and John MacArthur are doing.

Besides the purposes of this discussion, you think JM is a false teacher, correct? If so can you recommend some legit ones?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Besides the purposes of this discussion, you think JM is a false teacher, correct? If so can you recommend some legit ones?

I thought we are setting aside theological discussions for another time?

My opinion of JM is irrelevant for this discussion...no need to muddy the waters.  I can only comment upon his actions during this pandemic, which I consider to be at a minimum negligent.

 

[Mety]

No testing on my end no matter how well and fancy you write your words of me. You seem to take things too far most of the time. Try to stay within what?s being posted only.

None of what you said is what I said so please try again.

You literally stated that the SK churches don't count because they are bad churches and that good churches will stay protected. 

You then used MacArthur's church as some sort of test case/evidence to support your contention but then ignore the other churches who have taken similar stances but then were affected by COVID. 

This need to be "right" and "wrong" is very weird to me...God laments the loss of any life, whether we consider them to be "good" or "bad"...and yet you seem to waive them off as collateral damage.

Where is this whole right or wrong, good or bad coming from?
For Grace church, just wait and see if they have thousands of new cases soon. They should if Covid is so deadly right? It?s not a test. Just trying to see how severe this virus really is.

That's exactly what the pastors in SK said...as well as those pastors I listed above.  This is not some sort of scientific/social experiment.  Pastors don't get to play public health experts just like public health experts don't get to play pastor. 

A pastor's job is to protect his flock..both spiritually and physically.  What John MacArthur is doing is negligence IMO. 

He believes that his ability to lead his congregation is greater than God's ability to keep that congregation whole and spiritual.

And then he condemn all the other churches for not following him.

A pastor's job is to feed the Word of God to his congregation. That's it. To teach them the Bible in ways to glorify Christ. Health and all other issues are individual's responsibility. JM did not threaten them to come. They, full grown adults, just did out of hunger for the Word of God.

Again, if COVID really killed all 180k people, then sure, closedown order seems legit. But many people started to see that's not the case.

 

[Mety]

How do you know it wasn't God who inspired Newsome to issue those initial stay at home orders?

What if it's God who is guiding all these officials in setting up these guidelines to keep people safe?

You are a drowning man.

You right. I don?t know. Did I ever say Newsom was devil? How many times do I have to say I was simply talking about my concerns for church? You don?t have any concerns for church so maybe you don?t get it.

You did say that the orders were contrary to God's orders...not sure how else to interpret that.

Do you not do anything contrary to God's? Are you always doing what God wants? Again, went too far.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Do you not do anything contrary to God's? Are you always doing what God wants? Again, went too far.

Of course I do...and I am a sinner...doing things contrary to God is in my nature.

But you did mention that the orders were contrary to God and that you believe that the Satan is behind the orders...so I am not sure where the middle ground lies.  Newsome is either a pawn of Satan to contradict the will of God or a willing participant.  Either way, Newsome is acting in contravention to God and you/John MacArthur are going to be Michael and strike him down (metaphorically of course).

 

[Mety]

Besides the purposes of this discussion, you think JM is a false teacher, correct? If so can you recommend some legit ones?

I thought we are setting aside theological discussions for another time?

My opinion of JM is irrelevant for this discussion...no need to muddy the waters.  I can only comment upon his actions during this pandemic, which I consider to be at a minimum negligent.

Yeah, but I can still ask random stuff, right? Are you putting a limitation or prohibition on what I speak? ;D

Then can you still recommend which pastors you think are legit? I'm asking you to share good things not just for me but for others so they can look up and listen to their sermons online. What's stopping you?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

A pastor's job is to feed the Word of God to his congregation. That's it. To teach them the Bible in ways to glorify Christ. Health and all other issues are individual's responsibility. JM did not threaten them to come. They, full grown adults, just did out of hunger for the Word of God.

Again, if COVID really killed all 180k people, then sure, closedown order seems legit. But many people started to see that's not the case.

You and I have very different view on what a pastor is supposed to do.  Pastors are supposed to be leaders for their flocks...set good examples and show them the way.  To push this off on some sort "you are an adult" excuse is shocking to me.

Which people?  Lol...please stop getting your public health and science information from your pastor.

Again...you are taking a conclusion and taking things that only support your conclusion while tossing out all others. 

I guess you can just hang out with your pastor if you ever get sick or injured because you know...God will either save you or dont. 

 

[Mety]

Do you not do anything contrary to God's? Are you always doing what God wants? Again, went too far.

Of course I do...and I am a sinner...doing things contrary to God is in my nature.

But you did mention that the orders were contrary to God and that you believe that the Satan is behind the orders...so I am not sure where the middle ground lies.  Newsome is either a pawn of Satan to contradict the will of God or a willing participant.  Either way, Newsome is acting in contravention to God and you/John MacArthur are going to be Michael and strike him down (metaphorically of course).

We don't strike anyone down. That's not our job. It's God's. You seem to get confused what our and God's jobs are on many stuff.

We just follow God's order before anyone else's. What's so hard to understand on this? Satan is behind all things that go against God and His will which is pretty much everything in this world. Newsom himself is not the devil. He's not that powerful lol.

 

[Mety]

A pastor's job is to feed the Word of God to his congregation. That's it. To teach them the Bible in ways to glorify Christ. Health and all other issues are individual's responsibility. JM did not threaten them to come. They, full grown adults, just did out of hunger for the Word of God.

Again, if COVID really killed all 180k people, then sure, closedown order seems legit. But many people started to see that's not the case.

You and I have very different view on what a pastor is supposed to do.  Pastors are supposed to be leaders for their flocks...set good examples and show them the way.  To push this off on some sort "you are an adult" excuse is shocking to me.

Which people?  Lol...please stop getting your public health and science information from your pastor.

Again...you are taking a conclusion and taking things that only support your conclusion while tossing out all others. 

I guess you can just hang out with your pastor if you ever get sick or injured because you know...God will either save you or dont.

Yeah, we do have very different views on what a pastor is supposed to be. Of course if he is a good role model and all that, great, but his primary job is to feed the Word of God. If you don't think so then that's your opinion. But look at the Bible and see what prophets did. Their job was to speak the Word of God truthfully even if those were of judgments. They were not to be role models or some sort of a leader. You might be getting confused with kings.

You keep saying I have a conclusion. Guess what? I don't yet. That's why I'm saying let's see what happens. You seem to have a clear conclusion on your end though.

Just check your heart, man. Are you really expressing love through this discussion? To me, it seems like you're just after me to prove I'm wrong and some old white pastor because I mentioned of him. You also seem to be protecting many non-believers while trying to crush me. Maybe you think of me as a non-believer? Of course IHO will think you're so lovely.

 

[eyephone]

Moses and David were not role models and not leaders?

 

[Mety]

Moses and David were not role models and not leaders?

David was a king so he should have been a leader and a role model, but his job was not about teaching the Word of God as he was not a prophet.

Moses was a leader and also a prophet. His job was not about becoming a role model. In fact when his brother and sister challenged him on that matter, God almost killed them. Moses, though being a humble man, asked God to forgive them.

To apply such matter to today's church, the lead pastor is like a prophet who speaks the Word of God. The Word of God is already spoken in the Bible therefore their job is to teach people what's written in the Bible. But pastors are not to be compared to kings like David or Solomon. The only king now is Jesus Christ.

Hope it helps your understanding of the Bible.

 

[eyephone]

My understanding of the Bible?
Get a life and stop complaining for no apparent reason.
I am waiting for you to claim covid on 5g. lol

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Moses and David were not role models and not leaders?

David was a king so he should have been a leader and a role model, but his job was not about teaching the Word of God as he was not a prophet.

Moses was a leader and also a prophet. His job was not about becoming a role model. In fact when his brother and sister challenged him on that matter, God almost killed them. Moses, though being a humble man, asked God to forgive them.

To apply such matter to today's church, the lead pastor is like a prophet who speaks the Word of God. The Word of God is already spoken in the Bible therefore their job is to teach people what's written in the Bible. But pastors are not to be compared to kings like David or Solomon. The only king now is Jesus Christ.

Hope it helps your understanding of the Bible.

Accidentally thank you....meant to quote

For someone who is trying to teach the Bible...you seem awfully confused.

Prophets in the Old Testament were models to follow both in words and action, Samuel, Elijah, Elisah, etc.  They were meant to be voices of reason in both good and bad times.  They delivered the word of God to the people and served as agents of God in the Old Testament.

Kings were meant to be leaders but not model...in fact God specifically told Israel that they should not ask for a kings as they already have God.  Israel did not listen so God gave them Saul...who looked the part but not after God.  The kings that followed could be good and bad but were flawed in that they were seen as flawed replacements for God.  Eventually the kings led Israel to destruction and exile to Babylon.

Pastors are not suppose to be prophets or kings...the closest equivalent to them in the Old Testamemt are priests, who were supposed to lead the people spiritual and intercede on the people's behalf before God when they sinned. 

Pastors are very different from all three because Jesus specific showed what pastors are to do...lead and protect the flock.  They were to look out for the most vulnerable and help them the flock to find God.  They are however not priests because we are our own priests with Jesus as the head priest. 

We dont need prophets anymore either becauase we all have a direct line to God and can ask for His guidance.  We also have the Bible that serves aa the Word of God.

So pastors are meant to lead and protect their flock, not to take God's place.  They are meant to be moral leaders as well as they were to lead by example just as Jesus ans the apostles did. 

 

[Mety]

Moses and David were not role models and not leaders?

David was a king so he should have been a leader and a role model, but his job was not about teaching the Word of God as he was not a prophet.

Moses was a leader and also a prophet. His job was not about becoming a role model. In fact when his brother and sister challenged him on that matter, God almost killed them. Moses, though being a humble man, asked God to forgive them.

To apply such matter to today's church, the lead pastor is like a prophet who speaks the Word of God. The Word of God is already spoken in the Bible therefore their job is to teach people what's written in the Bible. But pastors are not to be compared to kings like David or Solomon. The only king now is Jesus Christ.

Hope it helps your understanding of the Bible.

Accidentally thank you....meant to quote

For someone who is trying to teach the Bible...you seem awfully confused.

Prophets in the Old Testament were models to follow both in words and action, Samuel, Elijah, Elisah, etc.  They were meant to be voices of reason in both good and bad times.  They delivered the word of God to the people and served as agents of God in the Old Testament.

Kings were meant to be leaders but not model...in fact God specifically told Israel that they should not ask for a kings as they already have God.  Israel did not listen so God gave them Saul...who looked the part but not after God.  The kings that followed could be good and bad but were flawed in that they were seen as flawed replacements for God.  Eventually the kings led Israel to destruction and exile to Babylon.

Pastors are not suppose to be prophets or kings...the closest equivalent to them in the Old Testamemt are priests, who were supposed to lead the people spiritual and intercede on the people's behalf before God when they sinned. 

Pastors are very different from all three because Jesus specific showed what pastors are to do...lead and protect the flock.  They were to look out for the most vulnerable and help them the flock to find God.  They are however not priests because we are our own priests with Jesus as the head priest. 

We dont need prophets anymore either becauase we all have a direct line to God and can ask for His guidance.  We also have the Bible that serves aa the Word of God.

So pastors are meant to lead and protect their flock, not to take God's place.  They are meant to be moral leaders as well as they were to lead by example just as Jesus ans the apostles did.

I actually agree with all you said here except about the priest part, but you've done a better job explaining than me. Also I'm not really teaching the Bible. I'm not in a position to do so. I'm still a learner. I was just answering the question , but I like how you said better. I also share my thoughts and my understanding in this thread and am fully welcoming any feedback or criticisms.

I still think the main role of the pastor is to teach the Bible. That does include leading and protecting. They should also be moral leaders, but as we all know no one can be perfect. There could be mistakes here and there, and that's why I personally don't look at them to follow as a role model but look for more sound doctrines and teachings.

 

[Mety]

My understanding of the Bible?
Get a life and stop complaining for no apparent reason.
I am waiting for you to claim covid on 5g. lol

UNBELIEVABLE!

 

[Mety]

Moses and David were not role models and not leaders?

David was a king so he should have been a leader and a role model, but his job was not about teaching the Word of God as he was not a prophet.

Moses was a leader and also a prophet. His job was not about becoming a role model. In fact when his brother and sister challenged him on that matter, God almost killed them. Moses, though being a humble man, asked God to forgive them.

To apply such matter to today's church, the lead pastor is like a prophet who speaks the Word of God. The Word of God is already spoken in the Bible therefore their job is to teach people what's written in the Bible. But pastors are not to be compared to kings like David or Solomon. The only king now is Jesus Christ.

Hope it helps your understanding of the Bible.

Accidentally thank you....meant to quote

For someone who is trying to teach the Bible...you seem awfully confused.

Prophets in the Old Testament were models to follow both in words and action, Samuel, Elijah, Elisah, etc.  They were meant to be voices of reason in both good and bad times.  They delivered the word of God to the people and served as agents of God in the Old Testament.

Kings were meant to be leaders but not model...in fact God specifically told Israel that they should not ask for a kings as they already have God.  Israel did not listen so God gave them Saul...who looked the part but not after God.  The kings that followed could be good and bad but were flawed in that they were seen as flawed replacements for God.  Eventually the kings led Israel to destruction and exile to Babylon.

Pastors are not suppose to be prophets or kings...the closest equivalent to them in the Old Testamemt are priests, who were supposed to lead the people spiritual and intercede on the people's behalf before God when they sinned. 

Pastors are very different from all three because Jesus specific showed what pastors are to do...lead and protect the flock.  They were to look out for the most vulnerable and help them the flock to find God.  They are however not priests because we are our own priests with Jesus as the head priest. 

We dont need prophets anymore either becauase we all have a direct line to God and can ask for His guidance.  We also have the Bible that serves aa the Word of God.

So pastors are meant to lead and protect their flock, not to take God's place.  They are meant to be moral leaders as well as they were to lead by example just as Jesus ans the apostles did.

I actually agree with all you said here except about the priest part, but you've done a better job explaining than me. Also I'm not really teaching the Bible. I'm not in a position to do so. I'm still a learner. I was just answering the question , but I like how you said better. I also share my thoughts and my understanding in this thread and am fully welcoming any feedback or criticisms.

I still think the main role of the pastor is to teach the Bible. That does include leading and protecting. They should also be moral leaders, but as we all know no one can be perfect. There could be mistakes here and there, and that's why I personally don't look at them to follow as a role model but look for more sound doctrines and teachings.

Sorry, I was reading again and I actually do agree with the priest part you said.

But wanted to add that leading and protecting the flock is really based on teaching the Bible IMHO. Do you have any other ways besides teaching the Bible to fulfill the leading the protecting role? I'm not saying that's the only way, but probably the most important one because there were all sorts of teachings then and also now that could lead many astray.