God?

[Mety]

I just question your #1 though. To me, what you're saying sounds like indoor worship, whether it is at a church building or at your home, is not allowed, but we can do so by calling it a "private small meeting." Am I understanding you correctly? If so, that's doing something secretively. Sure, that's not like a hardcore persecution, but that's limiting us to worship in a hiding manner.

No. The restrictions are as to businesses and entities.  The concern is large group meetings and the employees/staff.  As there is no longer a "stay at home" order, individuals can move about and meet informally for whatever purpose. 

What is not allowed is for churches (and business) to try and circumvent the restriction by shifting the venue.  A restaurant cannot start serving people at a different location to circumvent the restriction but there is no restrictions on you have a dinner party.  Similarly, a church cannot move service to a private home...pack in 50 people and call it a Bible study but you as a private individual can host and have Bible study. 

No one needs to be secretive about having Bible studies...it is viewed no differently than any other private gatherings.  Purpose of the gathering is irrelevant. 

So you're saying we can have church at homes, just not allowed to call it church. I'm still not sure if we're really allowed to go to someone's home though.

BTW, the real original point I was making wasn't that church was singled out to be persecuted or limited. Yes, other businesses and entities are getting the same unfair treatment. But for me, it is sad because church is included in that list. Yes, other religions are included also, but the fact is church is included. If that sounds like I'm making church any more special than others, yes, I am making church more special. I believe any Christians should have the same concern over this matter. To be honest, it is not too bad right now. Streaming services are great in a way. But I'm just concerned it may go long term, longer than necessary and will have impact on how Church might have more vulnerability to get limitations and prohibitions later on.

It cannot be "unfair" if it applied uniformly and for a proper purpose.  The SC already found that the restrictions imposed by states (including California to be constitutional).  You may not think it to be necessary but others believe it is.  So the government has the power to issue such order for the betterment of society and public health.   

Think of it this way, if COVID-19 was much more lethal and people were dying on the streets...would you say that the restrictions were improper?  Obviously it is a matter of scale but in some ways, we entrust governmental officials to make the decisions for the society as a whole.

This does not mean that government orders in times of crisis are always proper or correct.  Executive Order 9066 is a prime example of an incredible abuse of governmental powers.  But there is no indication that the COVID-19 restrictions are even close to something like that. 

Long term wise...who knows what will happen?  What if COVID-19 comes back in the second wave to be significantly more contagious and deadly?  What if instead of 180K deaths, we are experiencing 300K or 400K deaths?  I think you would need to see what data and science look at that point rather than assuming that someone is out to get Christians. 

There was a laxing of restrictions in May but people could not handle it and it lead to a resurgence of case...which led to more restrictions.  There is no evil scheme at play...people should have just done better so that the disease can be better controlled. 

As I repeatedly stated, equality does not equal persecution.

Yeah, like I said, I'm just concerned about the possible vulnerability down the road in the future for church which you seem like you aren't. If Covid-19 was really dangerous as much as you think, then the close down would be proper IMHO. But I just don't see it as severe as you and many others do. It's a personal opinion. Looking at datas and sciences and whatnot make me think more and more clear that Covid-19 is not as severe as predicted at first. But this is whole another topic we can talk in that another thread.

But for me, it is sad because church is included in that list. Yes, other religions are included also, but the fact is church is included. If that sounds like I'm making church any more special than others, yes, I am making church more special

The church is not more special in this case.  The church may be more important to you but it is not to a non-Christian.  I am pretty sure that Muslims feel that the closure of their local mosque is important to them.

What is different is that some Christians' belief that they are superior or are above the law and thus attribute evil intent where none exists.  What they are doing are hurting other people in society and based upon arrogance and a refusal to understand the realities of the situation.  I do not see people of other faith claiming persecution or that the government is attacking their religion. 

I will give you an example from South Korea...the country had it pretty well handled but then one church hid the fact that some of its members went to China/Wuhan and that the disease was being spread in church.  That led to 5000+ cases of COVID...over half of all COVID cases in SK.

Then SK got the disease back under containment to have another large church refuse to adhere to protocol and lie to its parishioners that they could not get COVID if they went to church.  Guess what, the lead pastor tested positive for COVID and there is a resurgence of COVID case...which has led to more shutdowns and damage to businesses and individuals.

Because of those two churches...the entire country of SK has to unnecessarily suffer additional death/disease, multiple shutdown, economic damage, and untold effects.  Does that sound like things that Christians should be doing?  Does that seem like things that would bring more people to Christ or fewer? 

The disease does not care about your religion or your political stance...it does not care about your nationality, heritage, or background.  It just wants to spread to the next victim so it can remain in existence.  We should all make extra effort to try and stop the situation so that everyone can get back to "normal".

Me thinking church in a special way does not mean I'm taking church above the law or superior to others. It's a personal concern as I state over and over. You're trying to be fair and all because you don't like some Christians with wrong superior attitudes and I get that. I don't like that either. But as a Christian, I personally believe God will take care of His people even if we were to meet. Someone could get the virus if that's God's will (again, this is where we might differ beliefs since you don't believe in pre-destination), but I believe God will allow them to recover as well.

I'm very well aware of the church in South Korea. We shouldn't really call them church anyways because they're not. They're cults organizations with load of money proclaiming that the lead pastor there is the Holy Spirit in flesh. Did you know all that detail? Well, I somehow happen to know. I believe God will take care of the real church. As for those fake churches, they're on their own and God might actually use such time to reveal their fake.

One church in Sun Valley is meeting with thousands of people every Sunday now since couple weeks ago. It's called Grace Community Church (it's not where I attend BTW). Ironically it's the church with that lead pastor, John MacArthur I posted a link of couple months ago even before all these second close down orders. He's one of the real Bible teachers few left in this country IMHO. Let's see if that church makes 5000+ cases. I really think God would protect them. If they do produce thousands cases, we'll all know I was wrong and you were right. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

So you're saying we can have church at homes, just not allowed to call it church. I'm still not sure if we're really allowed to go to someone's home though.

You can call it whatever you want.  Your church cannot. 

There is no stay at home order...you can go out.

Yeah, like I said, I'm just concerned about the possible vulnerability down the road in the future for church which you seem like you aren't. If Covid-19 was really dangerous as much as you think, then the close down would be proper IMHO. But I just don't see it as severe as you and many others do. It's a personal opinion. Looking at datas and sciences and whatnot make me think more and more clear that Covid-19 is not as severe as predicted at first. But this is whole another topic we can talk in that another thread.

Again...terrible way to make a public policy decisions. 

You keep saying your belief but we don't make public policy decisions on individual beliefs or POV.  Your opinion is not more important or relevant than a non-believer's when it comes to public health issues.

Me thinking church in a special way does not mean I'm taking church above the law or superior to others. It's a personal concern as I state over and over. You're trying to be fair and all because you don't like some Christians with wrong superior attitudes and I get that. I don't like that either. But as a Christian, I personally believe God will take care of His people even if we were to meet. Someone could get the virus if that's God's will (again, this is where we might differ beliefs since you don't believe in pre-destination), but I believe God will allow them to recover as well.

I'm very well aware of the church in South Korea. We shouldn't really call them church anyways because they're not. They're cults organizations with load of money proclaiming that the lead pastor there is the Holy Spirit in flesh. Did you know all that detail? Well, I somehow happen to know. I believe God will take care of the real church. As for those fake churches, they're on their own and God might actually use such time to reveal their fake.

That seems like like rationalization.  Those churches are bad but my church is not so it does not affect me.

So you apparently see this as some sort of test for churches?  True churches will survive while fake ones won't?  That is extremely nihilist.  Sorry, I cannot go with you there. 

One church in Sun Valley is meeting with thousands of people every Sunday now since couple weeks ago. It's called Grace Community Church (it's not where I attend BTW). Ironically it's the church with that lead pastor, John MacArthur I posted a link of couple months ago even before all these second close down orders. He's one of the real Bible teachers few left in this country IMHO. Let's see if that church makes 5000+ cases. I really think God would protect them. If they do produce thousands cases, we'll all know I was wrong and you were right.

I reserved my opinions of John MacArthur but your "test" is silly.  Like Salem witch trial crazy.  Oh...let's make 5000+ people test subjects because of one person's beliefs. 

Matthew 4:7: 

Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

I wouldn't care if I was right...I would just care that someone was sick.

This reminds me of the Drowning Man example:

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."

To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

https://truthbook.com/stories/funny-god/the-drowning-man

 

[Irvinecommuter]

BTW...as to John MacArthur

Mark MacArthur, a son of Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church in California, has been charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission along with a wealth management company he founded with defrauding their advisory clients.

The federal agency announced earlier this month that MacArthur, 52, his Criterion Management Insurance Services, Inc., as well as then co-owner Robert Gravette, allegedly breached their fiduciary duty and defrauded their advisory clients by failing to disclose significant financial conflicts of interest when recommending investments in private real estate investment funds.

The SEC's complaint, filed on Feb. 12, alleges that MacArthur and the other defendants listed recommended that their advisory clients invest more than $16 million in four private real estate investment funds without disclosing that the fund managers had paid them more than $1 million from 2014 to 2017.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/...-with-defrauding-investment-firm-clients.html

I am sure he didn't know anything about it...

 

[Mety]

BTW...as to John MacArthur

Mark MacArthur, a son of Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church in California, has been charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission along with a wealth management company he founded with defrauding their advisory clients.

The federal agency announced earlier this month that MacArthur, 52, his Criterion Management Insurance Services, Inc., as well as then co-owner Robert Gravette, allegedly breached their fiduciary duty and defrauded their advisory clients by failing to disclose significant financial conflicts of interest when recommending investments in private real estate investment funds.

The SEC's complaint, filed on Feb. 12, alleges that MacArthur and the other defendants listed recommended that their advisory clients invest more than $16 million in four private real estate investment funds without disclosing that the fund managers had paid them more than $1 million from 2014 to 2017.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/...-with-defrauding-investment-firm-clients.html

I am sure he didn't know anything about it...

Haha so you're saying his son's wrong actions make him a fake pastor? Ok, that's your call.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

BTW...as to John MacArthur

Mark MacArthur, a son of Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church in California, has been charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission along with a wealth management company he founded with defrauding their advisory clients.

The federal agency announced earlier this month that MacArthur, 52, his Criterion Management Insurance Services, Inc., as well as then co-owner Robert Gravette, allegedly breached their fiduciary duty and defrauded their advisory clients by failing to disclose significant financial conflicts of interest when recommending investments in private real estate investment funds.

The SEC's complaint, filed on Feb. 12, alleges that MacArthur and the other defendants listed recommended that their advisory clients invest more than $16 million in four private real estate investment funds without disclosing that the fund managers had paid them more than $1 million from 2014 to 2017.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/...-with-defrauding-investment-firm-clients.html

I am sure he didn't know anything about it...

Haha so you're saying his son's wrong actions make him a fake pastor? Ok, that's your call.

I did not say he was a "fake" pastor...I am saying that this is an odd church for you to point to as to whether it is a "true" church. 

Also...you are the one who claimed that the SK churches were fake because they had a lot of money and were led by a cultist pastor.  How much is a lot of money and what makes a pastor a cultist?

How is what the South Korean churches did different than what John MacArthur is doing?

I will just add this point made by another Christian:

It?s another thing entirely if you willingly put yourself in the place of danger when you don?t have to, then expect God to protect you. It?s even worse when you turn things into a public test, thereby bringing potential reproach on the name of the Lord.

https://www.christianpost.com/voices/do-not-put-the-lord-your-god-to-the-test.html

 

[Irvinecommuter]

But as a Christian, I personally believe God will take care of His people even if we were to meet. Someone could get the virus if that's God's will (again, this is where we might differ beliefs since you don't believe in pre-destination), but I believe God will allow them to recover as well.

So those people who get sick and die...they were not just worthy of God's love?  How about those who got sick and survived...does that mean they were chosen by God to live?  What about those who got the disease and has serious complications?  They were partially loved but not as much as those who survived?

I mean this is an extremely nihilist view of God...I mean God might as well be Shiva.

 

[Mety]

BTW...as to John MacArthur

Mark MacArthur, a son of Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church in California, has been charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission along with a wealth management company he founded with defrauding their advisory clients.

The federal agency announced earlier this month that MacArthur, 52, his Criterion Management Insurance Services, Inc., as well as then co-owner Robert Gravette, allegedly breached their fiduciary duty and defrauded their advisory clients by failing to disclose significant financial conflicts of interest when recommending investments in private real estate investment funds.

The SEC's complaint, filed on Feb. 12, alleges that MacArthur and the other defendants listed recommended that their advisory clients invest more than $16 million in four private real estate investment funds without disclosing that the fund managers had paid them more than $1 million from 2014 to 2017.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/...-with-defrauding-investment-firm-clients.html

I am sure he didn't know anything about it...

Haha so you're saying his son's wrong actions make him a fake pastor? Ok, that's your call.

I did not say he was a "fake" pastor...I am saying that this is an odd church for you to point to as to whether it is a "true" church. 

Also...you are the one who claimed that the SK churches were fake because they had a lot of money and were led by a cultist pastor.  How much is a lot of money and what makes a pastor a cultist?

How is what the South Korean churches did different than what John MacArthur is doing?

I will just add this point made by another Christian:

It?s another thing entirely if you willingly put yourself in the place of danger when you don?t have to, then expect God to protect you. It?s even worse when you turn things into a public test, thereby bringing potential reproach on the name of the Lord.

https://www.christianpost.com/voices/do-not-put-the-lord-your-god-to-the-test.html

If you don?t know that church from SK, do some research. You did well finding MacArthur?s.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

If you don?t know that church from SK, do some research. You did well finding MacArthur?s.

I know about John MacArthur and his church.  I also know quite a lot about the SK churches. 

The Shincheonji Church can be characterized as a cult but the Sarang Jail Church certainly cannot. 

It has a strong leader but its parishioners are very conservative and challenges the SK's liberal president. 

Conservative activists have accused Mr. Moon of trying to scapegoat the church to divert attention from his weak approval ratings, which have been plummeting over domestic policy blunders like soaring housing prices. Church officials even suspect health officials manipulated virus-test results to keep Mr. Moon?s die-hard critics quarantined.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/20/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-church-sarang-jeil.html

Sounds familiar.

I am asking about what is different about what those SK churches did as to what John MacArthur is doing now?

The only difference I can see if your belief that John MacArthur and his church is legit while those SK churches were not. 

 

[Mety]

But as a Christian, I personally believe God will take care of His people even if we were to meet. Someone could get the virus if that's God's will (again, this is where we might differ beliefs since you don't believe in pre-destination), but I believe God will allow them to recover as well.

So those people who get sick and die...they were not just worthy of God's love?  How about those who got sick and survived...does that mean they were chosen by God to live?  What about those who got the disease and has serious complications?  They were partially loved but not as much as those who survived?

I mean this is an extremely nihilist view of God...I mean God might as well be Shiva.

Just use your logic. You?re smart, right? Don?t need to get too complicated.

According to your Covid-19 seriouness, Grace Commuity Church should soon have thousands of new cases since they?ve been meeting indoor for couple weeks. If that doesn?t happen, then either Covid-19 isn?t as deadly as you say or God really did some miracles. I tend to think the former would be most likely. If they end up having thousands of new cases, then you?ve been right all along and I?ll admit I was wrong. I?m not talking about testing God or anything. Come on! But I do believe God does take care of His people like how it shows numerous times in the Bible.

Also your view seems to be just life and death here. Becuase someone died out of a disease that doesn?t mean God didn?t love that person. God allows and uses any circumstancres and they all glorify Him in the end. Also His people?s death is not an end but a beginning. Don?t you know all these?

 

[Mety]

If you don?t know that church from SK, do some research. You did well finding MacArthur?s.

I know about John MacArthur and his church.  I am asking about what is different about what those SK churches did as to what John MacArthur is doing now?

The only difference I can see if your belief that John MacArthur and his church is legit while those SK churches were not.

Yeah, you got that right. Difference between someone who teaches Word of God and someone who claims to be God? I?m 100% sure the latter is false. I can add more of what specifically they did wrong also, but I hope what I just said is enough for you.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Just use your logic. You?re smart, right? Don?t need to get too complicated.

According to your Covid-19 seriouness, Grace Commuity Church should soon have thousands of new cases since they?ve been meeting indoor for couple weeks. If that doesn?t happen, then either Covid-19 isn?t as deadly as you say or God really did some miracles. I tend to think the former would be most likely. If they end up having thousands of new cases, then you?ve been right all along and I?ll admit I was wrong. I?m not talking about testing God or anything. Come on! But I do believe God does take care of His people like how it shows numerous times in the Bible.

Also your view seems to be just life and death here. Becuase someone died out of a disease that doesn?t mean God didn?t love that person. God allows and uses any circumstancres and they all glorify Him in the end. Also His people?s death is not an end but a beginning. Don?t you know all these?

That is the opposite of logic...it is reverse logic. 

It is also a self-fulfilling and nihilist view...bad things only happen to bad people while good things only happen to good people.   

Heck, it's even more illogical because bad people dying means they are bad but good people doesn't necessary mean they are bad...just the will of God.  So whatever happens, it is just up to your interpretation as to who is "good" and who is "bad". 

Again...I don't care if I am right or wrong..this is not some sort of ideological purity test imposed by God.  Again, what you are saying is exactly what God tells us not to do:  To test Him just to test him. 

You are rationalizing your own point of view and eliminating all contrary evidence.  Under your standard, if the Grace church has a lot of cases, does that mean that it was a cult all along and John MacArthur is a cult leader?  It is a conclusion looking for a theory.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

If you don?t know that church from SK, do some research. You did well finding MacArthur?s.

I know about John MacArthur and his church.  I am asking about what is different about what those SK churches did as to what John MacArthur is doing now?

The only difference I can see if your belief that John MacArthur and his church is legit while those SK churches were not.

Yeah, you got that right. Difference between someone who teaches Word of God and someone who claims to be God? I?m 100% sure the latter is false. I can add more of what specifically they did wrong also, but I hope what I just said is enough for you.

Again...that is not true for the Sarang Jail Church. 

You have strong belief about your own ability to interpret God's will and what is good and bad.

What about those pastors and churches who also fought the need for protocols but then were substantially affected by COVID?  Were they false pastors/churches too?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/04/27/pastor-landon-spradlin-coronavirus-death/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...op-who-died-coronavirus-now-battling-n1187076
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_r...cle_0e6e7744-8033-11ea-8755-1347b40f9147.html

 

[irvinehomeowner]

How do you know it wasn't God who inspired Newsome to issue those initial stay at home orders?

What if it's God who is guiding all these officials in setting up these guidelines to keep people safe?

You are a drowning man.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Of course John MacArthur would say this...

During Sunday?s sermon, MacArthur suggested that churches that close are not true churches. ?There has never been a time when the world didn?t need the message of the true church,? he said. ?I have to say, ?true church.? I hate to think of that, but there?s so many false forms of the church. Let them shut down.?

https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...worship-covid-john-macarthur-greg-laurie.html

Sorry...apparently everyone else is doing it wrong.

 

[Mety]

Just use your logic. You?re smart, right? Don?t need to get too complicated.

According to your Covid-19 seriouness, Grace Commuity Church should soon have thousands of new cases since they?ve been meeting indoor for couple weeks. If that doesn?t happen, then either Covid-19 isn?t as deadly as you say or God really did some miracles. I tend to think the former would be most likely. If they end up having thousands of new cases, then you?ve been right all along and I?ll admit I was wrong. I?m not talking about testing God or anything. Come on! But I do believe God does take care of His people like how it shows numerous times in the Bible.

Also your view seems to be just life and death here. Becuase someone died out of a disease that doesn?t mean God didn?t love that person. God allows and uses any circumstancres and they all glorify Him in the end. Also His people?s death is not an end but a beginning. Don?t you know all these?

That is the opposite of logic...it is reverse logic. 

It is also a self-fulfilling and nihilist view...bad things only happen to bad people while good things only happen to good people.   

Heck, it's even more illogical because bad people dying means they are bad but good people doesn't necessary mean they are bad...just the will of God.  So whatever happens, it is just up to your interpretation as to who is "good" and who is "bad". 

Again...I don't care if I am right or wrong..this is not some sort of ideological purity test imposed by God.  Again, what you are saying is exactly what God tells us not to do:  To test Him just to test him. 

You are rationalizing your own point of view and eliminating all contrary evidence.  Under your standard, if the Grace church has a lot of cases, does that mean that it was a cult all along and John MacArthur is a cult leader?  It is a conclusion looking for a theory.

No testing on my end no matter how well and fancy you write your words of me. You seem to take things too far most of the time. Try to stay within what?s being posted only.

None of what you said is what I said so please try again.

 

[Mety]

If you don?t know that church from SK, do some research. You did well finding MacArthur?s.

I know about John MacArthur and his church.  I am asking about what is different about what those SK churches did as to what John MacArthur is doing now?

The only difference I can see if your belief that John MacArthur and his church is legit while those SK churches were not.

Yeah, you got that right. Difference between someone who teaches Word of God and someone who claims to be God? I?m 100% sure the latter is false. I can add more of what specifically they did wrong also, but I hope what I just said is enough for you.

Again...that is not true for the Sarang Jail Church. 

You have strong belief about your own ability to interpret God's will and what is good and bad.

What about those pastors and churches who also fought the need for protocols but then were substantially affected by COVID?  Were they false pastors/churches too?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/04/27/pastor-landon-spradlin-coronavirus-death/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...op-who-died-coronavirus-now-battling-n1187076
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_r...cle_0e6e7744-8033-11ea-8755-1347b40f9147.html

Again, went too far. Did I ever say if you get Covid, you?re not loved by God?

 

[Mety]

How do you know it wasn't God who inspired Newsome to issue those initial stay at home orders?

What if it's God who is guiding all these officials in setting up these guidelines to keep people safe?

You are a drowning man.

You right. I don?t know. Did I ever say Newsom was devil? How many times do I have to say I was simply talking about my concerns for church? You don?t have any concerns for church so maybe you don?t get it.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

No testing on my end no matter how well and fancy you write your words of me. You seem to take things too far most of the time. Try to stay within what?s being posted only.

None of what you said is what I said so please try again.

You literally stated that the SK churches don't count because they are bad churches and that good churches will stay protected. 

You then used MacArthur's church as some sort of test case/evidence to support your contention but then ignore the other churches who have taken similar stances but then were affected by COVID. 

This need to be "right" and "wrong" is very weird to me...God laments the loss of any life, whether we consider them to be "good" or "bad"...and yet you seem to waive them off as collateral damage. 

 

[Mety]

Of course John MacArthur would say this...

During Sunday?s sermon, MacArthur suggested that churches that close are not true churches. ?There has never been a time when the world didn?t need the message of the true church,? he said. ?I have to say, ?true church.? I hate to think of that, but there?s so many false forms of the church. Let them shut down.?

https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...worship-covid-john-macarthur-greg-laurie.html

Sorry...apparently everyone else is doing it wrong.

So you think MacArthur is a false teacher? It?s a yes or no question. Please...

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Again, went too far. Did I ever say if you get Covid, you?re not loved by God?

No you said that the SK churches don't count because they were not real churches and that someone like John MacArthur and his followers would be protected by God because you deem him to be a "true" pastor.

So what is the explanation for those pastor who are doing what MacArthur is doing but then died because of COVID?  Were they not true pastors? 

You can't set down measurements/markers only to change them when it fits your conclusion.