Downtown of OC

But bkshpr, "Asians" encompass a pretty large variety of sub-cultures...even if what you've said holds true for certain segments of the population, are they true for the entire immigrant population from Asia?





I'd venture to say that at the very least, Japanese Americans deviate rather sharply from what you're describing. It may have something to do with generation, it may have something to do with culture. The problem with your arguments are that they consider the habits of Japanese-Americans the same as the other "Asians". I can't speak about other Asian-American cultures, but I would imagine that it's the same situation. That's why I don't tend to make generalizations about "Asians", or "kids growing up in the barrio", for that matter.





I'm certainly not trying to discourage open debate... in fact, that's why I love this forum (I don't think anyone has told you to stop posting). I'm just saying that I don't think what you say is true.





-OCR
 
bkshopr,





I foresee us discussing this topic ad nauseum without resolving anything.





The point is not that all races are identical; I agree there will always be cultural differences among diverse peoples. If these differences are discussed in a rational and objective manner, I don't think that will offend anybody. However, I think it makes all the difference in the world in what manner these cultural differences (perceived or otherwise) are discussed.





By way of illustration, I'll quote your statements and inject some other ethnicity in there, and perhaps you can see why some people might take offense in your statements (note: I apologize in advance to other ethnic groups out there that might be offended - this is not my personal opinion):





<em>It is a testimony that a school without JEWISH robots could also succeed and produces students that will become future contributors in helping and improving our forgotton and neglected communities.





If you are worrying about traffics and AFRICAN AMERICA drivers to your neighborhood outlet store then you do not need to worry because the main reason to shop outlet is to buy brand names at bargain price.





LATINOS as a culture children are programmed to have respect and never should talk back to the elders. This behavior will hinder the children as they become adults.</em>





Like you, I welcome freedom of thought and expression. However I also believe that this should not give anyone license to make statements that contribute towards the negative characterization of any race/ethnicity.





As for your culture, I am not aware of your background or ethnicity, so I cannot comment. I don't believe that anyone apart from yourself has made an issue of it.
 
oh now are we starting the whole debate again? do a little search and you'll find there was already a never-ending thread regarding bk, his comments, and asian stereotypes. there were people all both sides of the issue -- with some people in disbelief of bk's comments, others agreeing that his comments are spot on, and others who simply find his comments amusing . can we all just review the old threads if need be and just accept that there are many opinions on this manner?





just to add my two cents, my girlfriend and my family wont go to camarillo or carlsbad outlets. they all prefer cabazon because there's a/x, armani, prada, and the like. me, i do my shopping on ebay!
 
I would 3rd that opinion. . . it would like trying to lump all Europeans as one group.





<em>Asian as a culture children are programmed to have respect and never should talk back to the elders. This behavior will hinder the children as they become adults. Avoiding confrontation and sweeping unresolved issues under the rugs and not talking about it will not solve problems. The issues I wrote about may or may not describe you in particular but among Asians it is never talked about. Some comments may not apply for some of you but it does apply to a much larger group. I did not mean Asians hating Camirillo as a city but the outlet that does not offer the their preferred choice of brands. Cabazon outlet on the other hand is very popular among Asians. There are sale receipts that back up my comments. Why are you all jumping into these conclusions?


</em>


Asian is not a culture. . while many of the East Asian culture has Confucian basis, they vary wildly on their application. Chinese are more concerned about "face" and not make too much of a problem. I would argue that the Chinese culture is more focused on the family and not as concerned about society in general. Koreans on the other hand are extremely nationalistic due to their history. Japanese society has elevated sense of duty and "honor" (although many Japanese in the US are more "American" because they have been here many generations") Vietnamese, Thai, and Cambodian cultures are very different.
 
acpme,





You don't want to be a part of this discussion if you don't want to be. I don't pontificate on what you should find worthy of discussion, and I would appreciate the same courtesy. With all due respect, if you don't have any interest in this topic, then please move on to the next one.
 
<p><em>Asian as a culture children are programmed to have respect and never should talk back to the elders.</em></p>

<p>Please tell me of an Asian nation that disagrees with this statement. </p>
 
<p>The story of Mike Harrah is one of admiration. I read he bought that building on the corner of 17th and Main St. And while he was sitting at Norm's across the street savoring his new purchase. He read in the newspaper that most of the business tenants left downtown Santa Ana and headed to the Irvine Business District. Hahaha. In essence, he bought into a ghost town. If my memories served me right, had the Reagan Federal Court Bldg. not been built in Santa Ana. Mike various acquistions would have gone down the toilet. But instead of giving up. He decided to acquire more buildings and renovated them. Thereafter, leased them to the various govt. agencies. I believe he own most of downtown Santa Ana, currently.</p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>Hopia,</p>

<p>I believe that acpme was merely pointing out that this particular path was well trod, that insight into BK and his professional analyses could be found within other threads, and that if you were seeking to understand his POV you could find it there. From your tone in responding to acpme, however, I'm guessing that (a) you misunderstood his comment, or (b) that's not your preferred choice.</p>

<p>FWIW, after the first go around, I learned to not imply "all" into BK's comments when he discusses his findings based on race (and gender for that matter). As even BK has noted, his conclusions are not perfect. He wrongly pegged a nurse who likes to knit as a woman. That said, marketing would not be such a useful and profitable field if generalizations couldn't be made about groups, whether they be gender, race, class, etc.</p>
 
hopia,





my response was simply to say this is a controversial subject thats been discussed to death here, and that given there are so many opinions on the matter, let's just try to accept that there are many opinions on it. as passionate as one might be about their opinion, no one is going come up with resolution and we are going to have a thread that not only goes on forever, it'll become one that eventually starts getting prickly!





for example, i was simply addressing everyone in general using vague you's and we's . if anyone thought i was rude or discourteous to them in my post, i apologize but i thought i was keeping things light-hearted in a "can't we all just get alone" manner. on the other hand, you decided to address me personally and that's what i mean about getting prickly. so no offense intended and i hope vice versa.
 
<p>I must say, walking in downtown Santa Ana near 3rd Street and Main. I do envision a place similar to 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica. I often wonder why the mainstream retailers have not moved in. The architectural designs of the buildings in downtown Santa Ana is reminiscent of the 1930's....very beautiful.</p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>All I have to say on this subject of Asian drivers. Whether it's true or not. It all comes down to defensive driving. </p>

<p>Lets take Little Saigon as an example. I often drive through this part of town. And I must say, initially, I was terrified by the Viet drivers. They don't stop when the back out of a parking space. They would cut in front of you to steal a parking space. They don't stop when they exit a parking lot. They change lanes without using the blinkers. etc.</p>

<p>But you know what? Instead of getting upset about it. Just adapt. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. (is that how the saying goes?) </p>
 
Am I sensing only Asians have issues regarding my comments? You just can not ignore that the major demographic in Irvine is Asian. It is valid to talk about the majority. I don't think I ever said Asians are losers but they have peculiar idiosyncrasy. Both psychology and behavior are important part of marketing and design. Understanding them is the success of a prosperous community. My sarcasms may offend some of you but at the same time it is a realistic method of delivery to the companies who make and design products for all of you. The car that you drive, the product that you use, and the house that you purchased are all designed based on my sarcasms.



There is a grain of truth in my comments and sometimes it hit close for some and not so close for others. I have been in this industry before many of you were born. I would not have arrived here at my current career if my comments were bogus. I know who the Asian home buyers are and they are very close to my description profile. If you are completely opposite from my description then you are not in my represented market segment. The homes that are being designed are not for you.



If you are the American born generation then you absolutely do not fit into my described Asian profile. Homes in Irvine target the 1.5 generation Asians who have cash. You are IAC’s demographic.
 
<p>bk, </p>

<p>I understand the idea of market research and that groups of people do have tendencies based on culture and upbringing. However, your statements are too generalized and broad in nature. </p>

<p>You cannot use the "grain of truth" defense to justify your statements. There are too many tragedies and injustices that have been committed based on that defense. </p>

<p> </p>
 
BK,





Face it, regardless of your "research", you are a racist.


Majority in every city and state in the USA is still Caucasian.


Yes, perhaps the largest MINORITY is Asian in Irvine, but the majority is still White.


To you all Asians are the same. Very sad.


I thought people in California were more open minded.


BTW, it's not just the Asians you offend.
 
Eva and Acpme,





I appreciate you pointing me to the previous threads on that touched on this topic. I did skim through the previous threads (or at least what I could find), and I do understand that none of the views I am expressing here are novel.





I am not optimistic about swaying anyone or changing anyone's world view here. However, I felt it was important to respond to bkshopr's comments as they seemed to me to be somewhat bigoted - I am trying not to judge bkshopr, but I am trying to let him know how his comments appear to me (and apparently to a few more people on this forum). If he has a true interest in not perpetuating racist stereotypes, then I hope that some of this will resonate with him.





I understand that bkshopr analyzes demographics for a living, but again, trying to understand an ethnic group's propensities does not give once license to make derogatory comments about them. Perhaps it's a communication issue, but I don't think calling Asian students "robots" and depicting Asian children as being "programmed" can be seen as constructive or funny in this context.





I think it's fair that if bkshopr thinks he has the right to make such comments over and again, then people like me should also have the right to share what we think about such comments. Isn't that the essence of the freedom of speech that bkshopr cites?





Perhaps I should have started another thread and not hijacked this one (and I apologize for that), but I thought it was important to respond to bkshopr in the context of the discussion in which he made these statements. At any rate, I've said my piece and am beginning to sound lie a broken record, so I think this will be one of those discussions where we'll just agree to disagree.






 
<p>Bk's analogy might be true with regards to 1.5 generations Asians. As to the American-born Asians, maybe his analysis doesn't applies as he had stated.</p>

<p>I think when he used the word "robots" he meant that "most" Asians are polite and have hierarchy in their family structure? And the children being "programmed" meant they follow orders of their elders? That Asian children are programmed to study hard, respect their elders, etc. Is that so bad?....maybe it's just Bk's choice of words. I really do think he meant well.</p>
 
How would you know about the 1.5 generation?


His words are words of hate, based on his own little microcosm and you are eating it up with a spoon


So, I suppose the generalization that California Whites are on their 3rd divorce, newer model in car and wife,


all White women get boob jobs and their kids own 2 ipods a piece?


Or BK, after living in your barrio, you crossed the border in the middle of the night holding onto your mother's hand while she had no husband and 14 kids


and still living here illegally collecting welfare off the rest of us





Yeah, love your idea of truth.
 
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