coronavirus

sgip

Well-known member
@CalBears

1) Every Executive action taken in 2019-2020 was by Trump and Trump alone, not steered by advice provided by Fauch, CDC, Pfizer, Moderna, WHO, etc? Source please.

2) Having extensive (and deeply regrettable) first hand experience with both substances, I still support absolute freedom of choice and thus stand by the analogy as true.
 

OCtoSV

Active member
I don’t know the history of your stance on this topic.

In 2020, the mainstream media definitely pushed a narrative where you would be ostracized and labeled a conspiracy theorist if you believed it was a lab leak.
The deception and suppression by NIH and a compliant media, and then the Biden admin, will be the biggest scandal of the last century. Remember when Trump was vilified for proposing a China travel ban? miss that guy and his policies so much...
 

morekaos

Well-known member
None of these have been proven either way depending on who you listen to.

But you don't listen/read/understand... you still think the elections were rigged and that Jan 6 was not insurrection... so why am I not surprised?

If you take the anti-politics lean out of our arguments... you may have better traction. Just remember that most of 2020 was under who?
The thing is back when we were challenging all these point they were presented as settled science. Now, with time, hindsight, less panic and some solid data the narrative has shifted and the “conspiracy theories” are turning out to be true. But some of us knew this all along. 😉😆😆
 

morekaos

Well-known member
Well Lancet sure has turned around on the topic of sweet, sweet natural immunity. That settled science enough for ya?….who was saying that two years ago?… hmmm, let me think🤔😝😆😆

Three Years Late, the Lancet Recognizes Natural Immunity

Lancet has reported that natural immunity is just as effective as two doses of the Moderna or Pfizer shots in preventing both reinfection and serious illness from COVID-19.

The findings, which were published in the February edition of the prestigious medical journal, were based on a review of 65 separate studies from 19 different countries.
…available data suggests that the level of protection afforded by previous infection is at least as high, if not higher than that provided by two-dose vaccination using high-quality mRNA vaccines,” the report declared.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-...tion-tech-censor-antibodies-mandates-b3ba912c
 

irvinehomeowner

Well-known member
I don’t know the history of your stance on this topic.

In 2020, the mainstream media definitely pushed a narrative where you would be ostracized and labeled a conspiracy theorist if you believed it was a lab leak.
I quoted my post above... it was April 2020 when I posted about the theories about it not being from the market because there wasn't an initial breakout that seemed to source from there but more near the lab (I forgot the specifics but my post has the link to the article about it). What was ostracized was that it was purposely released... but the origins from a lab was an acceptable theory. I could go full tinfoil hat and say China was getting vengeance for Trump policies. :)

Or

2) let an incremental 3-5 million people die from Covid or over-run medical system (however you want to frame the deaths)

I think given the financial impact (devastation to millions of business owners and regular wage workers) and related inflationary pressures that resulted from all of the government free money, I think lost people would choose option 2

For anyone who thinks we should not have tried to lock down and quarantine, you must not know any nurses or doctors or hospital staff who worked the front lines of Covid... nor know anyone close to you who fell victim to the disease.

Remember my cousin who died and left her young daughter without any parents. She had to move in with her uncle who lives halfway across the country and is not the nicest guy and (he's my cousin too so I can comment on that) and we just found out she attempted suicide. There are many more people who have had similar tragedies due to Covid and it would have been much worse so I don't agree we should not have tried what we could to limit it.

As for the trajectory of the economy... who knows what would have happened. In fact, maybe Trump is still president and we are in a war with China... infinite outcomes for the multiverse.
 

CalBears96

Well-known member
The deception and suppression by NIH and a compliant media, and then the Biden admin, will be the biggest scandal of the last century. Remember when Trump was vilified for proposing a China travel ban? miss that guy and his policies so much...
Remember Trump's responses to COVID-19? This is why I can't take you seriously.
 

CalBears96

Well-known member
@CalBears

1) Every Executive action taken in 2019-2020 was by Trump and Trump alone, not steered by advice provided by Fauch, CDC, Pfizer, Moderna, WHO, etc? Source please.

2) Having extensive (and deeply regrettable) first hand experience with both substances, I still support absolute freedom of choice and thus stand by the analogy as true.
May 2018: The Trump Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team.

July 2019: The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left the post, and the Trump Administration eliminated the role.

Jan 22, 2020: Trump tweeted, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

Feb 7, 2020: “It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu... This is deadly stuff” [Trump in a private interview with Bob Woodward from The Washington Post made public on Sept. 9, 2020]

Feb 10, 2020: More tweets from Trump, “I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.” and “Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

Feb 24, 2020: Trump tweeted, “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… the Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Are you really saying that Fauci, CDC, etc., were advising Trump that COVID-19 is like a flu and it's just going to be fine? It's just going away? Based on the private interview with Bob Woodward, Trump knew that COVID-19 was serious. What action did he take? He kept saying that it's a nothingburger and it will just away. All he cared about was the stock market, and a national lockdown would hurt it, so he was not doing anything like that.
 

sgip

Well-known member
@CalBears96

Random tweets and interview snips are not policy. They are expressions and nothing more. I'll have one to review in a moment.

Examples?

May 2018: The Trump Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team.
Fact Checked by the hyper MAGA news outlet USAToday: https://www.kff.org/news-summary/us...im-trump-fired-entire-nsc-global-health-unit/

July 2019: The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left the post, and the Trump Administration eliminated the role.
Article by the Far Right news outlet Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...a-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21C3N5

Money Quote:

Some health experts were skeptical that more CDC employees operating inside China would have made a difference in stemming the outbreak. Beijing has been widely criticized for silencing its own public health officials who warned of a deadly new respiratory disease emanating from the Chinese city of Wuhan and surrounding Hubei province.

“The problem was China, not that we didn’t have CDC people in China,” said Scott McNabb, a former CDC epidemiologist who is now a research professor with Emory University. He pointed to China’s censorship as the main culprit in the spread of the pandemic, which has infected at least 435,470 people worldwide, killed 19,598 and upended the global economy.

Here's a random quote that could easily be spun out of context- "Trump downplaying the COVID-19 severity"

March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)

Just by doing the math alone, assuming a very low testing percentage of 15% of the global population - 7.5B x 15% = 1.13b x 3.4% death rate is 38M. Total Deaths Pandemic to present is 6.8m. My math seems to indicate that the real death rate (in this testing scenario) is about .06% not 3.4%. Source: Our World In Data, google "Global COVID Deaths" 02/28/2023

This is in no way to minimize the severity or death rate for COVID-19, but to demonstrate the hyperbolic response to quotes, tweets, statements, versus actions taken during the Pandemic

Leaders are supposed to inform, but also calm their constituents in times of what was then an unknown, unclear disease. Had any President said what was being pushed out by "medical experts" - mostly paid talking heads on cable news outlets - far, far greater reactions could have taken place - mass firings for being unvaccinated which by no means is a conspiracy theory but actual fact. Many displaced unvaccinated workers are finally regaining their pay, benefits, and employment now through the legal process, but at what cost to them? Should we continue to mask toddlers because of a disease impacting so few relative to other diseases? Some in the extreme would insist. Cooler heads will look at the facts.

Was the response 100% perfect? I've said earlier, there were mistakes during the previous administration. People make them all the time. Here on Planet Reality, we have to allow for them, and contextualize. If there was genuine malfeasance or intent to harm, then justice must be served. For example: as verified data shows, Fauchi's is complicit in gain of function research done overseas using United States funding. When I see The Fauch perp walked, then of course we must take the blame further up the food chain and get everyone involved in an orange jump suit.

My .02c
 
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OCtoSV

Active member
what we know now:
masks don't work
lockdowns were unnecessary and an illustration of the abuse of power exercised by govt/quasi govt (teacher's unions)
The China virus was a lab leak the CCP knew about and deployed like a WMD

Trump fell victim to the war being waged on him by the MSM and Pelosi, which is on him as exhibited by his outlandish remarks in the early phases. It massively tarnished an otherwise brilliant legacy his administration created. I especially enjoy the lack of commentary outside Fox and the WSJ on the Trump tax cuts delivering greater tax revenue than projected, along with the silence about the criticism he received for his rude admonishing of NATO leaders to spend their 2%, shut down NordStream, build LNG terminals and buy it from the US to neutralize the Russian threat. Oh wait, that just happened.
 

morekaos

Well-known member
The narrative is shifting…that list looks a lot like mine, but they may have missed a few…

10 myths told by COVID experts — and now debunked

Misinformation #1: Natural immunity offers little protection compared to vaccinated immunity

Misinformation #2: Masks prevent COVID transmission

Misinformation #3: School closures reduce COVID transmission

Misinformation #4: Myocarditis from the vaccine is less common than from the infection

Misinformation #5: Young people benefit from a vaccine booster

Misinformation #6: Vaccine mandates increased vaccination rates

Misinformation #7: COVID originating from the Wuhan lab is a conspiracy theory

Misinformation #8: It was important to get the second vaccine dose three or four weeks after the first dose

Misinformation #9: Data on the bivalent vaccine is ‘crystal clear’

Misinformation #10: One in five people get long COVID

https://nypost.com/2023/02/27/10-myths-told-by-covid-experts-now-debunked/

Turns out it was the lab-leak deniers who wore the tinfoil hats

https://nypost.com/2023/02/27/turns-out-it-was-the-lab-leak-deniers-who-wore-the-tinfoil-hats/
 

OCtoSV

Active member
The narrative is shifting…that list looks a lot like mine, but they may have missed a few…

10 myths told by COVID experts — and now debunked

Misinformation #1: Natural immunity offers little protection compared to vaccinated immunity

Misinformation #2: Masks prevent COVID transmission

Misinformation #3: School closures reduce COVID transmission

Misinformation #4: Myocarditis from the vaccine is less common than from the infection

Misinformation #5: Young people benefit from a vaccine booster

Misinformation #6: Vaccine mandates increased vaccination rates

Misinformation #7: COVID originating from the Wuhan lab is a conspiracy theory

Misinformation #8: It was important to get the second vaccine dose three or four weeks after the first dose

Misinformation #9: Data on the bivalent vaccine is ‘crystal clear’

Misinformation #10: One in five people get long COVID

https://nypost.com/2023/02/27/10-myths-told-by-covid-experts-now-debunked/


Turns out it was the lab-leak deniers who wore the tinfoil hats

https://nypost.com/2023/02/27/turns-out-it-was-the-lab-leak-deniers-who-wore-the-tinfoil-hats/
I prefer heavy duty foil for mine
 

nosuchreality

Well-known member
Irony being, the anti-vax, no precautions crew wants to argue that it's not really a big deal as a disease, but are also fixated that it was basically a Chinese engineered bio-weapon.

Never could quite wrap my head around the simultaneous arguments that we don't need any precautions, no safety measures and it is an escaped bio-weapon.
 

morekaos

Well-known member
Why does everybody always make it an absolute binary? Never said we didn’t need any safety measures only that the ones they implemented were wrong. Should’ve immediately protected the elderly, kept schools open, no mask or vaccine mandates. Relied more on natural immunity. Never shut down the economy. Other countries implement these things in one form or another successfully our people in charge, chose poorly.
 

irvinehomeowner

Well-known member
You do know that article you linked to is an Opinion and none of this list is actually verified?
Misinformation #1: Natural immunity offers little protection compared to vaccinated immunity
No one here ever said this. Maybe less or more but not "little".
Misinformation #2: Masks prevent COVID transmission
Reduces... not prevents.
Misinformation #3: School closures reduce COVID transmission
Less exposure, less transmission, that doesn't even need science.
Misinformation #4: Myocarditis from the vaccine is less common than from the infection
Source?
Misinformation #5: Young people benefit from a vaccine booster
If the benefit is not getting Covid... probably?
Misinformation #6: Vaccine mandates increased vaccination rates
This is probably false... anti-vax is gonna anti-fax.
Misinformation #7: COVID originating from the Wuhan lab is a conspiracy theory
Posted previously about this.
Misinformation #8: It was important to get the second vaccine dose three or four weeks after the first dose
Unsure about this one.
Misinformation #9: Data on the bivalent vaccine is ‘crystal clear’
Really? Nothing is crystal clear.
Misinformation #10: One in five people get long COVID
Who said that?
 

morekaos

Well-known member
Ifs and buts…..additionally read the article, each point has backup links to studies and articles backing each supposition. All those points were bandied about as gospel truth at the time. Now, with a plethora of data and studies the truth has come out.
 
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morekaos

Well-known member
Misinformation #4: Myocarditis from the vaccine is less common than from the infection
Source?

How about the journal of American medical association (JAMA) for a source? They found it is four times more likely to get myocarditis after you get the stab.
June 24, 2022

Myocarditis or Pericarditis Following mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination​


The authors found that reported rates of myocarditis or pericarditis were higher after vaccination with mRNA-1273 compared with BNT162b2 and that for both vaccines, the rate was higher following dose 2 of the primary 2-dose series when the interdose interval (the timing between dose 1 and dose 2) was 30 days or less. These findings add to the body of knowledge about the association of mRNA COVID-19 vaccination with myocarditis and pericarditis and offer additional insight into the differential risk between the 2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products and the possible association of the interdose interval with risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.

 
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