99% Survival rate

Mety said:
irvinehomeowner said:
@Mety: What evidence do you have to come to the conclusion that the numbers are skewed. And which numbers are you referring to?

Covid infection and death rates we have in public are very unreliable. I'm sure none of you believe the public rates they put out in China or N. Korea. Sure, the US might have better accurate numbers overall in anything, but strange things pop up time to time. Couple things to point.

1. The test kits are known to be very unreliable since they keep giving different results.

2. CDC once said only 6% of Covid death numbers they have in public were "solely" from Covid based on the death certificates.

Every naysayer likes to point out this CDC statement. I suggest you go back and re-read what it actually says.

Let me help you out:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cdc-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/

3. Hospitals run Covid test when you're admitted even if you're not a Covid patient. With unreliable test results and marking patient as Covid patient/death by default in case of positive, which BTW might come out negative next day, the numbers would not be 100% accurate overall.

4. Pre-existing condition patients are being marked as a Covid patient even if the other condition was more severe.

You know all this as a fact? Sounds like voter fraud. Again, check your facts.

5. Many public figures who had Covid survive fine no matter what they support politically. Many say they had no or a little symptoms, some say they felt real bad couple days, but many other diseases also give real bad experiences.

Are you sure? More than a few public figures have died from Covid. Are you seeing a trend to my responses?

6. Not sure if it's just me, but you guys don't feel like you're being controlled somehow? Sure, this is more of a personal feeling rather than evidence, but I somehow feel like this whole world is being tested in some sort of a way. Call me crazy 8)

I think there is something off, sounds very conspiracy theory-like. Especially when you started saying that public health mandates are persecution of churches.

7. Even if all of the above weren't the issue, we still have the public number about 2% death rate. That IMHO is not something to sacrifice 98% of the population. People say other countries are doing much better than this country. So are they sacrificing like 99% of the population then? What's going on in this world?

How is 98% being sacrificed? You do realize that 2% could be much higher if we don't continue to observe certain safety measures/protocols. Do you also not get "flattening the curve" like qwerty?
 
@IHO,

The article you linked about CDC talks about how it could be misleading since Trump tweeted in such way. It?s not denying about the 6%. It says,

?That means that 6% of those who died with COVID-19 through Aug. 15 didn?t have any other reported conditions.?

BTW just to clarify, I wasn?t saying 6% is the real number. I?m saying how we would never know the real number since you were asking why I think the numbers are skewed.

Have you got nothing to say about the unreliable testing kits? That?s the main issue I labeled since we?re all depending on that result.

You?re free to think however you want to think. It all comes down to what you end up believing. Of course you?ll say you?re just following logic.
 
Mety, that is known as the fallacy of perfection.

The CDC clarified that 6% number reiterating that covid tends to cause lots of issues in the body, those issues get noted if present at time of death which is why covid being listed solely isn?t the gotcha people want it to be.

Here?s the CDC excess deaths report January to September 2020.  It is 299,000 deaths above the average expected deaths. A lot of those are tagged covid, quite few, are not.  Either way, it basically is 100,000 excess deaths every three months.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6942e2-H.pdf
 
@iho - get your facts straight. The 2% would not be higher. Perhaps the overall death count but not the 2%. Get your logic straight!!! :)

Happy thanksgiving!!
 
Mety said:
@IHO,

The article you linked about CDC talks about how it could be misleading since Trump tweeted in such way. It?s not denying about the 6%. It says,

?That means that 6% of those who died with COVID-19 through Aug. 15 didn?t have any other reported conditions.?

BTW just to clarify, I wasn?t saying 6% is the real number. I?m saying how we would never know the real number since you were asking why I think the numbers are skewed.

You still didn't read the whole article. That 6% number is not what you are saying it is. Here, let me post the relevant portion for you:

The following morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, clarified what the CDC data mean.

He noted that the 6% figure includes cases where COVID-19 was listed as the only cause of death. ?That does not mean that someone who has hypertension or diabetes who dies of Covid didn?t die of Covid-19. They did,? Fauci said on ABC?s ?Good Morning America.?

?So the numbers you?ve been hearing ? the 180,000-plus deaths ? are real deaths from Covid-19. Let [there] not be any confusion about that,? Fauci said.

I think what you call "believe" is really only "see what you want to see regardless of the facts (or logic)".

Have you got nothing to say about the unreliable testing kits? That?s the main issue I labeled since we?re all depending on that result.

That's why I asked which numbers. I've already explained multiple times that number of cases, percentages, etc will always be a moving, inexact target, you need to look at positivity rate and actual number of deaths (which you don't "believe").

You?re free to think however you want to think. It all comes down to what you end up believing.

Yes, this seems to be your own philosophy and disconnect here.

Of course you?ll say you?re just following logic.

Of course you still don't understand what my definition of logic is.
 
qwerty said:
@iho - get your facts straight. The 2% would not be higher. Perhaps the overall death count but not the 2%. Get your logic straight!!! :)

Wow... you still don't understand flattening the curve? I thought you were attend Zoom math with your daughter?

Happy thanksgiving!!

You too... but please watch out for any signs of fire. :)
 
@IHO,

You?re still missing my point. The point is numbers are inaccurate. I also said even if it was accurate and all, 2% still doesn?t justify 98% of people being restricted. We?re circling the same thing over and over.

Anyways... Happy Thanksgiving! Hope you feel true thanksgiving of having Jesus as your Lord regardless of what circumstances or arguments we may have.
 
nosuchreality said:
Mety, that is known as the fallacy of perfection.

The CDC clarified that 6% number reiterating that covid tends to cause lots of issues in the body, those issues get noted if present at time of death which is why covid being listed solely isn?t the gotcha people want it to be.

Here?s the CDC excess deaths report January to September 2020.  It is 299,000 deaths above the average expected deaths. A lot of those are tagged covid, quite few, are not.  Either way, it basically is 100,000 excess deaths every three months.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6942e2-H.pdf

Exactly. We don't know the real number and we never will probably. I do agree that Covid is giving people more health issues and even more deaths. I'm not saying Covid isn't real. I'm just arguing we're all looking at flawed datas after all. You along with many, maybe most, will say the numbers aren't too off, saying that's the fact and logic. A few and I are saying it's something we can't really trust. Either way, I support being careful so wash your hands, wear your masks and try to come not to close to others unless you really have to. I just don't see closing down and all that much restrictions are really necessary though.
 
From USA Today:

?CDC report: US misses 8 COVID cases for every 1 counted

The United States is still severely undercounting the number of COVID-19 cases it has across its population, a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report says. The CDC calculated that about 53 million Americans had been infected by the end of September, eight times below the confirmed cases at the time.

A previous CDC report had estimated the U.S. was undercounting cases by 10 times the amount. Of the 53 million estimated infections, the CDC says about 45 million were sick at some point and about 2.4 million were hospitalized.?

So if I?m doing the math right, 263,000 deaths divided by 53,000,000 that would put the death rate just a bit under half of one percent (.0049). Math is math!!
 
qwerty said:
From USA Today:

?CDC report: US misses 8 COVID cases for every 1 counted

The United States is still severely undercounting the number of COVID-19 cases it has across its population, a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report says. The CDC calculated that about 53 million Americans had been infected by the end of September, eight times below the confirmed cases at the time.

A previous CDC report had estimated the U.S. was undercounting cases by 10 times the amount. Of the 53 million estimated infections, the CDC says about 45 million were sick at some point and about 2.4 million were hospitalized.?

So if I?m doing the math right, 263,000 deaths divided by 53,000,000 that would put the death rate just a bit under half of one percent (.0049). Math is math!!

Honestly that would be wonderful.

Unfortunately, I can find many sites touting the same headline but not a single one linking the CDC report.  I know earlier in June the CDC reported 10x over, but that was in specific regional areas.
 
Mety said:
@IHO,

You?re still missing my point. The point is numbers are inaccurate.

Your point is inaccurate. I've already told you which numbers will be ambiguous. You pointed out a single number from the CDC but your reading of that number was also inaccurate.

I also said even if it was accurate and all, 2% still doesn?t justify 98% of people being restricted. We?re circling the same thing over and over.

What percentage does? Every death is either a parent, sibling or child of someone. And again, how are the 98% being "restricted"? The reason you keep circling is because you can never support your statements so then you try to obfuscate and pivot somewhere else. Just like with voter fraud, have you found that evidence yet? What about how the lockdown is a persecution of churches? Or now your latest, that we are somehow being "controlled".

I should have stopped when I said I would.

Anyways... Happy Thanksgiving! Hope you feel true thanksgiving of having Jesus as your Lord regardless of what circumstances or arguments we may have.

Same to you.... and you should consider the same so you don't keep thinking that this is all a conspiracy.
 
@IHO,
If that?s all you can get out from what I?m saying then I guess that is all you?ll get.

Conspiracy or not, God is in control so I?m thankful. I?m just sharing what my thoughts are, but some of you just can?t handle them or think of them as illogical.
 
Mety said:
@IHO,
If that?s all you can get out from what I?m saying then I guess that is all you?ll get.

Conspiracy or not, God is in control so I?m thankful. I?m just sharing what my thoughts are, but some of you just can?t handle them or think of them as illogical.

If God is in control, why are you thinking there is some conspiracy, persecution or skewing of numbers?

Your posts are so contradictory, confusing and unsupported that it's very difficult to have meaningful discourse with you.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Mety said:
@IHO,
If that?s all you can get out from what I?m saying then I guess that is all you?ll get.

Conspiracy or not, God is in control so I?m thankful. I?m just sharing what my thoughts are, but some of you just can?t handle them or think of them as illogical.

If God is in control, why are you thinking there is some conspiracy, persecution or skewing of numbers?

Your posts are so contradictory, confusing and unsupported that it's very difficult to have meaningful discourse with you.

This world is of Satan as Irvinecommuter mentioned. Whether they acknowledge or not, this world operates under Satan's dominion as God is allowing that for a set time. That's the basic principal of Christianity which should have been taught in churches anyways. Therefore, persecutions, conspiracy against good, and lies are all common practices in this world. The US had a blessing of having those probably a little less than some others overall, but it's just a matter of time for Satanic dominion to take over as it's been happening already subtly and surely. So times like this is certainly good testing times for faithful people. Instead of just believing whatever we are told whether by the government or the certified officials, I think it's wise to think twice about accepting those. Of course we can still practice "safety protocols" at the same time and obey the authorities instead of totally ignoring them.

Even with Satanic dominion taking over, God still is over all these and He is in His divine providence as that should have been taught in churches as well. That's why even in the midst of difficult times, we the believers can have confidence of His good guidance for us. To live or to die, our lives are for Christ. Even the death is not the end for the believers so there is nothing to worry about but stay thankful.

However, we're not to ignore what's going on around the world. We should know and test what's given to us. Things like datas you're talking about, media news, rumors, and even the religious authorities are some of those. So we need to be careful of accepting what's known as "facts" and still be mindful of others by practicing safety protocols. But most importantly sharing the real fact, the real truth, gospel is our responsibility especially in times like this. 

Hope all these don't make you even more confused. ;D
 
12 If a ruler listens to lies,
    all his officials become wicked.

16 When the wicked thrive, so does sin,
    but the righteous will see their downfall.

27 The righteous detest the dishonest;
    the wicked detest the upright.

Proverbs 29
 
TLDR; Listen to the experts instead of being a rebel against the truth

Romans 13:1, NLT Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.
 
@icey,

That?s exactly what I?m saying though. I clearly stated we should obey the authority instead of ignoring them. That?s why we should practice safety guidelines even if we might not completely agree. To agree or believe what the ?experts? are putting out in public is a total different subject.

As I?ve been saying, I follow all safety guidelines, but I don?t just accept those datas as facts... yet. And as some others brought up, there are all different kinds of datas these days. Are we just to believe the most popular one? Also if you are all about submitting to the governing authorities, have you been submitted to Trump?s administration?
 
There?s a few different forces at work here. The Proverbs passages I posted made me think mostly about Trump and ironically even has a passage in it about frivolous court cases. I didn?t post the whole thing. The Constitution says I have to accept his rule whether I like it or not, so that?s what I do. My loyalty is to the Constitution, not him.

On the other hand, you have apolitical career civil servants who are subject matter experts in their field, and we should listen to their guidance. Dr. Fauci being the most famous and a shame the crisis had to turn political when it should have been dealt with at a different level.

As Americans it?s our job to question our government, but once you dig into the political attacks, it?s easy to see where the disinformation is coming from.  It?s despicable Fauci had had to deal with death threats.
 
icey said:
There?s a few different forces at work here. The Proverbs passages I posted made me think mostly about Trump and ironically even has a passage in it about frivolous court cases. I didn?t post the whole thing. The Constitution says I have to accept his rule whether I like it or not, so that?s what I do. My loyalty is to the Constitution, not him.

On the other hand, you have apolitical career civil servants who are subject matter experts in their field, and we should listen to their guidance. Dr. Fauci being the most famous and a shame the crisis had to turn political when it should have been dealt with at a different level.

As Americans it?s our job to question our government, but once you dig into the political attacks, it?s easy to see where the disinformation is coming from.  It?s despicable Fauci had had to deal with death threats.

I knew your Proverbs verses were referring to Trump. Ironically, you also quoted Romans verse saying Christians are to submit to the governing authorities. Paul was writing that in the midst of Roman authorities and Jewish leaders were persecuting Christians, saying even those people are there positioned by God's divine providence. Obama, Trump, Biden, whoever becomes the President, they're there by God's providence and Christians' job is to submit, not to rebel. Of course, while we still submit, we do not obey laws and orders that are contrary to God's. If you're saying you're loyal to the governing authority whoever is the President, then you're doing the right thing as a Christian.

However, my questions are not about politics. My questions are originally about accepting datas and public information from people like Dr. Fauci and experts. Sure those people are the most famous indeed. But to me that doesn't give much credit of believing whatever they say. I actually think those people could be even more dangerous since most people are willing to accept whatever they say.
 
Mety said:
icey said:
There?s a few different forces at work here. The Proverbs passages I posted made me think mostly about Trump and ironically even has a passage in it about frivolous court cases. I didn?t post the whole thing. The Constitution says I have to accept his rule whether I like it or not, so that?s what I do. My loyalty is to the Constitution, not him.

On the other hand, you have apolitical career civil servants who are subject matter experts in their field, and we should listen to their guidance. Dr. Fauci being the most famous and a shame the crisis had to turn political when it should have been dealt with at a different level.

As Americans it?s our job to question our government, but once you dig into the political attacks, it?s easy to see where the disinformation is coming from.  It?s despicable Fauci had had to deal with death threats.

I knew your Proverbs verses were referring to Trump. Ironically, you also quoted Romans verse saying Christians are to submit to the governing authorities. Paul was writing that in the midst of Roman authorities and Jewish leaders were persecuting Christians, saying even those people are there positioned by God's divine providence. Obama, Trump, Biden, whoever becomes the President, they're there by God's providence and Christians' job is to submit, not to rebel. Of course, while we still submit, we do not obey laws and orders that are contrary to God's. If you're saying you're loyal to the governing authority whoever is the President, then you're doing the right thing as a Christian.

However, my questions are not about politics. My questions are originally about accepting datas and public information from people like Dr. Fauci and experts. Sure those people are the most famous indeed. But to me that doesn't give much credit of believing whatever they say. I actually think those people could be even more dangerous since most people are willing to accept whatever they say.

Then what does give someone credibility..if not someone who spent their entire life studying a subject? 

How does one make risk analysis about activities?  If your doctors tell you that you have cancer...do you go "these guys don't know what they are talking about?"
 
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