$250k and middle class

[Coleman]

Wow! I just deleted so much of my typing!  For a second I thought it was a multi paragraph essay hahaha.


Would you rather be "upper class" in Missouri or middle of the road in Irvine?


I like the idea that middle class is more in one's head.  I feel that it can't be completely related to income.  There are probably people in the sales force who clear 250k (dual income) however their mentality is far from what I would consider middle or upper class. 

 

[Coleman]

@Bones's second article - interesting idea ...

Sucks to be the poor friend that everyone wants to hang out with. 

Yikes - I am the poor friend of my group. 

I actually feel more sadness knowing that I am not the most frugal one of the group.  Knowing what you should do and not doing it causes a bit of guilt, haha

 

[Irvine Dream]

also irvine has a massive number of condos and apartments.  i would imagine that 5-10% of the residents live in traditional SFH with 5000 sq lot and driveway.  so even if we were to use your relative definition, such a house would still be in the upper tier of irvine.

If 5 to 10% is the Upper Tier then kids who go to UCIs are the top tier in the class.  While countrywide statistics may say so I doubt any one in this forum will dare to say getting admittd to UCI is top tier.  Backed by statistics or not I definitely feel that I am not in the upper middle class in Irvine.  I agree with another poster who said upper class may be a single income of more than 250K definitely not a household income of 250K in Irvine.

 

[Coleman]

In a room full of ones and twos, fives become tens!

Apply that to living in Irvine and making $250k

 

[rkp]

also irvine has a massive number of condos and apartments.  i would imagine that 5-10% of the residents live in traditional SFH with 5000 sq lot and driveway.  so even if we were to use your relative definition, such a house would still be in the upper tier of irvine.

If 5 to 10% is the Upper Tier then kids who go to UCIs are the top tier in the class.  While countrywide statistics may say so I doubt any one in this forum will dare to say getting admittd to UCI is top tier.  Backed by statistics or not I definitely feel that I am not in the upper middle class in Irvine.  I agree with another poster who said upper class may be a single income of more than 250K definitely not a household income of 250K in Irvine.

not sure why you are equating income with university admission.  average family income is probably pretty high at UCI but uni's are ranked against each other on completely different numbers.  incoming SAT scores, GPAs, size of endowment, research, number of applicants, etc

any way, this whole thread is personally interesting as many of my LA friends feel like OC is a bubble where people don't know reality...i guess they are right

 

[Irvine Dream]

not sure why you are equating income with university admission. 

I wasn't equating income and university admissions.  I was trying to draw a parallel.

 

[notTHEoc]

Nice response to this article. https://www.michigandaily.com/opinion/jenny-wang-response-relative-wealth

 

[Paris167]

a

 

[The Motor Court Company]

income alone means nothing. it is all about income and expense, or net cash flow. as long as you have a good cash flow that can add to your retirement, emergency and vacation funds, you are set. It is a lot easier to control your expenses than improving your income.
#livewithinyourmeans

 

[yaliu07]

wtf...  my family makes much and much less.  i am officially in the bottom 1% now...

 

[Paris167]

wtf...  my family makes much and much less.  i am officially in the bottom 1% now...

Bottom 1% is $500k plus annually, you sound so sad about that yaliu
#richpeopleproblems  ;D

 

[daedalus]

Why would anyone take anything a privileged college student says about wealth and money seriously?  How much of that $250k family income does this student make and spend?

 

[Dom]

Depending on the class model used, the middle class constitutes anywhere from 25% to 66% of households.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

Laughing...http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/

"I make a million dollars a year, but I'm not even middle class. I know this because after the payments on my Lamborghini and penthouse in Manhattan, I have nothing left to put in the bank."

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Well... to be fair... you cut out the part where Irvine Dream said "in Irvine".

I tend to agree... detached SFR with own driveway and 5000sft is upper middle class *in Irvine*.

Motorcourt is middle class (unless you buy La Vita).

Attached is lower middle class.

3CWG is extinct class.

you are saying the same thing as the michigan writer...her $250K + $2M house is middle class in palo alto but the reality is that its still upper middle class and you cant just focus on a very narrow view.  to take to the extreme, imagine a street full of mansions that all have bentleys in front except 1 house that has a camry.  would it make sense for the camry mansion guy to say he is rich or middle class based on his street?  he is rich regardless.  he chose the camry.  irvine dream might want a big house and lot and driveway but he chose irvine. 

whether you *feel* middle class, rich, or whatever, it doesnt change what you are based on income and spending ability.

also irvine has a massive number of condos and apartments.  i would imagine that 5-10% of the residents live in traditional SFH with 5000 sq lot and driveway.  so even if we were to use your relative definition, such a house would still be in the upper tier of irvine.

I think you are taking this too seriously.

But I'll expand on your example. What if the guy with the Camry put all his money into the mansion and could only afford a Camry? Then relative to his neighbors, he is "lower" on the class scale.

As I was trying to say, it's all relative. He may be rich by non-mansion owner standards, but to his neighbors, he's the "least" rich of them.

Now, if he could afford a Bentley, but chose to buy the Camry... that's a different story.

As for Irvine Dream's comparison by house style, it's fairly accurate in today's new home market.

 

[peppy]

Median (i.e. 50th percentile) income in Irvine in 2011 was $109,762/family and $92,599/household. I would not be calling $250,000 middle class at all ...

 

[The Motor Court Company]

Yaliu is exaggerating. being a homeowner in Irvine, will not make you bottom 1%. that's quite an insult to people who can only afford Portola Spring apartments/Foothill Ranch homes.

 

[eyephone]

Median (i.e. 50th percentile) income in Irvine in 2011 was $109,762/family and $92,599/household. I would not be calling $250,000 middle class at all ...

+1

It all comes down to the expenses.

 

[The Motor Court Company]

net cash flow (income minus expense),  net worth (assets minus liability) and your age.

Median (i.e. 50th percentile) income in Irvine in 2011 was $109,762/family and $92,599/household. I would not be calling $250,000 middle class at all ...

+1

It all comes down to the expenses.

 

[Irvine Dream]

Yaliu is exaggerating. being a homeowner in Irvine, will not make you bottom 1%. that's quite an insult to people who can only afford Portola Spring apartments/Foothill Ranch homes.

Mmmn!! and they called me the stalker???

 

[changm55]

gosh... what if the guy with the camry is the old gold and actually owns ALL the units on the entire block, while all his neighbors are just renting?? hahaha ...

so i feel IHO's criteria is too simplistic... like what if i own 3 attached units (rent out the rest and i live in just one), does that make me lower class or does that boost me to middle class?  what if i own 20 attached units (rent out the rest and live in just one),  can that squeeze me into the upper class? hahaha...

just being devils advocate lol

Well... to be fair... you cut out the part where Irvine Dream said "in Irvine".

I tend to agree... detached SFR with own driveway and 5000sft is upper middle class *in Irvine*.

Motorcourt is middle class (unless you buy La Vita).

Attached is lower middle class.

3CWG is extinct class.

you are saying the same thing as the michigan writer...her $250K + $2M house is middle class in palo alto but the reality is that its still upper middle class and you cant just focus on a very narrow view.  to take to the extreme, imagine a street full of mansions that all have bentleys in front except 1 house that has a camry.  would it make sense for the camry mansion guy to say he is rich or middle class based on his street?  he is rich regardless.  he chose the camry.  irvine dream might want a big house and lot and driveway but he chose irvine. 

whether you *feel* middle class, rich, or whatever, it doesnt change what you are based on income and spending ability.

also irvine has a massive number of condos and apartments.  i would imagine that 5-10% of the residents live in traditional SFH with 5000 sq lot and driveway.  so even if we were to use your relative definition, such a house would still be in the upper tier of irvine.

I think you are taking this too seriously.

But I'll expand on your example. What if the guy with the Camry put all his money into the mansion and could only afford a Camry? Then relative to his neighbors, he is "lower" on the class scale.

As I was trying to say, it's all relative. He may be rich by non-mansion owner standards, but to his neighbors, he's the "least" rich of them.

Now, if he could afford a Bentley, but chose to buy the Camry... that's a different story.

As for Irvine Dream's comparison by house style, it's fairly accurate in today's new home market.