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Offline paperboyNC

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2021, 09:17:23 AM »
SGIP,

I appreciate your response, but what made Trump the most complicit in the insurrection wasn't any particular line of that morning rally. It was his refusal to send any assistance to the Capitol Building where the Vice President, his family and the entire body of Congress was hiding from armed MAGA rioters, some of whom were intent on causing harm to them.

Maryland Governor, a Republican said that congress was begging for the National Guard from Maryland after Trump refused to send the DC National Guard and the Trump administration refused to allow Maryland to send their National guard either https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/08/maryland-governor-describes-delayed-permission-to-send-national-guard/

It wasn't until Pence broke the chain of command and also bypassed the Security of Defense that any help was send to the Capitol Building.

Quote
As rioters smashed windows and forced lawmakers into hiding, the head of the Maryland National Guard was told he could not come to the aid of US Capitol police, per Hogan.

Ninety minutes later, according to Hogan, the secretary of the Army, Ryan McCarthy, called him to request the deployment.

Typically such calls come from the US Secretary of Defense. It was not the only apparent breach in the chain of command on Wednesday. The order to deploy the National Guard came not from the commander in chief, President Donald Trump, but rather Vice President Mike Pence, according to The New York Times.
https://news.yahoo.com/maryland-governor-tried-deploy-national-002546744.html

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2021, 11:33:37 AM »
@SGIP:

You didn't mention that Trump also told the "terrorists":

"We Love You, You’re Very Special."

If an idiot is looking for validation for their actions... isn't that it?

Or was he insulting them by calling them "special"? I would say they are special... particulary the ones who posted their pics on social media making it a home run for prosecution.
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Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2021, 01:32:41 PM »
@PaperboyNC,

The Senators listed in the article are all with a D behind their name. They kept saying "We don't have the authority...." but they knew who did. Was a call placed to POTUS? Not that I can tell from that article or in any other news resource. So what if VP Pence OK'd the National Guard? For all we know he may have been the first person available in the Executive Branch to get that done. So very little facts are on the ground right now and articles filled with speculation aren't all that interesting to me. As for the level of Police and NG in DC at the time, those levels were based on past Trump rally emergency and law enforcement threats. DC Police were clearly understaffed. Intelligence on what could have gone wrong wasn't paid attention to. It's a failure to plan correctly rather than respond swiftly that caused this to become the problem that it has now. It's 2020 hindsight and I wish that Genie could be stuffed back into the bottle. 

@IHO -

The clip you're mentioning isn't the focus of the video released by the President. It's easy to parse a small part of a call to disburse out like that, but not as truthful as it could be. I've heard that statement distilled down to claims that POTUS "loves" what happened - one word out of a 2 minute video.  The same  goes for those idiots looking for validation. They don't hear the larger "go home" peaceably message, only what is played over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseum by the media. Those kinds of people looking for any scrap of validation cannot be stopped even if they were called "terrorists" or thugs. The President condemmned Nazi's and the KKK for many years, but did either of these groups stop because of what was said?

Swift law enforcement, thorough prosecution of offenders, and irreducible jail sentences may put he respect of law back where it belongs. I just don't see it given our current culture, what with "protestors" being released, bailed out, and criminal charging enhancements being cancelled by DA's (LA County for example) this may never happen.

Also yes, social media could help identify these kooks. I'm all for it. You post it? You live with the repercussions.   

IMHO these problems have mushroomed once one side was given the "Get out of jail free" card. Looting without law enforcement sends a terrible message. It's basic undenyable human nature for every other group to believe they will get the same treatment - a free pass to riot without consequence. Had more heads been cracked in Seattle, Portland, Long Beach, and other summer riot filled cities, perhaps DC wouldn't have occurred. As soon as a time machine can be made commercially available we might go back and test this theory for success or failure.

My .02c
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 01:42:05 PM by Soylent Green Is People »
My .02c

SGIP

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Offline eyephone

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2021, 01:45:24 PM »
Not a reasonable statement. If you take the statement at the rally at the mall. He and Rudy are encouraging people to take action. I am taking a guess that this thing was well planned.
There was new article of someones social media account taking a private jet from CA to D. Then with a photo by broken glass at the capital.
There are reports police arrested a person with molatav cocktails, there are pictures of people with zip ties, many people have onions for their eyes for tear gas. The fbi is looking for information relating to the pipe bomb. This is not a coincidence.

Federal Police Agencies - Please search the emails, phones, and correspondence. (Maybe no Miranda rights needed due to national security threat and previous actions that happened in the capital.) We need to get to the bottom of this.

@IHO -

The clip you're mentioning isn't the focus of the video released by the President. It's easy to parse a small part of a call to disburse out like that, but not as truthful as it could be. I've heard that statement distilled down to claims that POTUS "loves" what happened - one word out of a 2 minute video.  The same  goes for those idiots looking for validation. They don't hear the larger "go home" peaceably message, only what is played over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseum by the media. Those kinds of people looking for any scrap of validation cannot be stopped even if they were called "terrorists" or thugs. The President condemmned Nazi's and the KKK for many years, but did either of these groups stop because of what was said?

Swift law enforcement, thorough prosecution of offenders, and irreducible jail sentences may put he respect of law back where it belongs. I just don't see it given our current culture, what with "protestors" being released, bailed out, and criminal charging enhancements being cancelled by DA's (LA County for example) this may never happen.

Also yes, social media could help identify these kooks. I'm all for it. You post it? You live with the repercussions.   

IMHO these problems have mushroomed once one side was given the "Get out of jail free" card. Looting without law enforcement sends a terrible message. It's basic undenyable human nature for every other group to believe they will get the same treatment - a free pass to riot without consequence. Had more heads been cracked in Seattle, Portland, Long Beach, and other summer riot filled cities, perhaps DC wouldn't have occurred. As soon as a time machine can be made commercially available we might go back and test this theory for success or failure.

My .02c
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 01:58:16 PM by eyephone »

Offline eyephone

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2021, 01:48:00 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 02:01:58 PM by eyephone »

Offline eyephone

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2021, 02:04:23 PM »
TMZ: ALABAMA MAN ARRESTED ...
11 Molotov Cocktails in Truck!!!

According to legal docs -- obtained by TMZ -- Coffman approached cops and told them he was trying to get to his vehicle -- a red pickup -- the same suspicious vehicle they had received calls about.

Cops say he asked them if they found the bombs, and upon searching his truck ... they found 11 mason jars containing an unknown liquid with a golf tee in the top of each jar, cloth rags and lighters. AKA -- Molotov cocktails.

Coffman's been arrested, and cops say -- based on security footage -- he was seen leaving the vehicle parked near the Capitol building on Wednesday morning.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/08/alabama-man-lonnie-coffman-arrested-for-possession-of-explosives-and-gun/










Not a reasonable statement. If you take the statement at the rally at the mall. He and Rudy are encouraging people to take action. I am taking a guess that this thing was well planned.
There was new article of someones social media account taking a private jet from CA to D. Then with a photo by broken glass at the capital.
There are reports police arrested a person with molatav cocktails, there are pictures of people with zip ties, many people have onions for their eyes for tear gas. The fbi is looking for information relating to the pipe bomb. This is not a coincidence.

Federal Police Agencies - Please search the emails, phones, and correspondence. (Maybe no Miranda rights needed due to national security threat and previous actions that happened in the capital.) We need to get to the bottom of this.

@IHO -

The clip you're mentioning isn't the focus of the video released by the President. It's easy to parse a small part of a call to disburse out like that, but not as truthful as it could be. I've heard that statement distilled down to claims that POTUS "loves" what happened - one word out of a 2 minute video.  The same  goes for those idiots looking for validation. They don't hear the larger "go home" peaceably message, only what is played over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseum by the media. Those kinds of people looking for any scrap of validation cannot be stopped even if they were called "terrorists" or thugs. The President condemmned Nazi's and the KKK for many years, but did either of these groups stop because of what was said?

Swift law enforcement, thorough prosecution of offenders, and irreducible jail sentences may put he respect of law back where it belongs. I just don't see it given our current culture, what with "protestors" being released, bailed out, and criminal charging enhancements being cancelled by DA's (LA County for example) this may never happen.

Also yes, social media could help identify these kooks. I'm all for it. You post it? You live with the repercussions.   

IMHO these problems have mushroomed once one side was given the "Get out of jail free" card. Looting without law enforcement sends a terrible message. It's basic undenyable human nature for every other group to believe they will get the same treatment - a free pass to riot without consequence. Had more heads been cracked in Seattle, Portland, Long Beach, and other summer riot filled cities, perhaps DC wouldn't have occurred. As soon as a time machine can be made commercially available we might go back and test this theory for success or failure.

My .02c

Offline eyephone

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2021, 02:07:01 PM »
Tmz: picture of a man in the capital with many zip ties.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/08/elizabeth-from-knoxville-accused-rubbing-eyes-with-onion-towel-maced/

TMZ: ALABAMA MAN ARRESTED ...
11 Molotov Cocktails in Truck!!!

According to legal docs -- obtained by TMZ -- Coffman approached cops and told them he was trying to get to his vehicle -- a red pickup -- the same suspicious vehicle they had received calls about.

Cops say he asked them if they found the bombs, and upon searching his truck ... they found 11 mason jars containing an unknown liquid with a golf tee in the top of each jar, cloth rags and lighters. AKA -- Molotov cocktails.

Coffman's been arrested, and cops say -- based on security footage -- he was seen leaving the vehicle parked near the Capitol building on Wednesday morning.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/08/alabama-man-lonnie-coffman-arrested-for-possession-of-explosives-and-gun/










Not a reasonable statement. If you take the statement at the rally at the mall. He and Rudy are encouraging people to take action. I am taking a guess that this thing was well planned.
There was new article of someones social media account taking a private jet from CA to D. Then with a photo by broken glass at the capital.
There are reports police arrested a person with molatav cocktails, there are pictures of people with zip ties, many people have onions for their eyes for tear gas. The fbi is looking for information relating to the pipe bomb. This is not a coincidence.

Federal Police Agencies - Please search the emails, phones, and correspondence. (Maybe no Miranda rights needed due to national security threat and previous actions that happened in the capital.) We need to get to the bottom of this.

@IHO -

The clip you're mentioning isn't the focus of the video released by the President. It's easy to parse a small part of a call to disburse out like that, but not as truthful as it could be. I've heard that statement distilled down to claims that POTUS "loves" what happened - one word out of a 2 minute video.  The same  goes for those idiots looking for validation. They don't hear the larger "go home" peaceably message, only what is played over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseum by the media. Those kinds of people looking for any scrap of validation cannot be stopped even if they were called "terrorists" or thugs. The President condemmned Nazi's and the KKK for many years, but did either of these groups stop because of what was said?

Swift law enforcement, thorough prosecution of offenders, and irreducible jail sentences may put he respect of law back where it belongs. I just don't see it given our current culture, what with "protestors" being released, bailed out, and criminal charging enhancements being cancelled by DA's (LA County for example) this may never happen.

Also yes, social media could help identify these kooks. I'm all for it. You post it? You live with the repercussions.   

IMHO these problems have mushroomed once one side was given the "Get out of jail free" card. Looting without law enforcement sends a terrible message. It's basic undenyable human nature for every other group to believe they will get the same treatment - a free pass to riot without consequence. Had more heads been cracked in Seattle, Portland, Long Beach, and other summer riot filled cities, perhaps DC wouldn't have occurred. As soon as a time machine can be made commercially available we might go back and test this theory for success or failure.

My .02c

Online morekaos

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2021, 02:34:34 PM »
Wait is the biggest source shamer really using TMZ as a news source?  That is funnier than the snowflake threat. ;D ;) >:D

Offline eyephone

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2021, 02:37:02 PM »
Wait is the biggest source shamer really using TMZ as a news source?  That is funnier than the snowflake threat. ;D ;) >:D

Again. This is a joke to you. That the capital was taken over.
I will say this to you again and again. Country and constitution over party.

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2021, 02:37:56 PM »
Morkeas is mad that his buddy is going on a downward spiral.

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2021, 02:47:05 PM »
Morekas does not believe TMZ. So guys here you go.

NBC article citing the DOJ:
Authorities have made a series of arrests following the riots at the Capitol. The U.S. Department of Justice announced several cases Friday with some deeply disturbing allegations.

Among them is the case announced against Alabama resident Lonnie Coffman. Federal officials say they found 11 Molotov cocktails filled with gasoline and homemade napalm inside Coffman's red pickup truck near the Capitol grounds Wednesday, in addition to a cache of firearms including an automatic weapon.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/several-arrested-after-capitol-riot-including-man-accused-of-having-11-molotov-cocktails-in-truck/2535100/

Come on the guy was not there to serve drinks to the protestors look at the ingredients.

TMZ: ALABAMA MAN ARRESTED ...
11 Molotov Cocktails in Truck!!!

According to legal docs -- obtained by TMZ -- Coffman approached cops and told them he was trying to get to his vehicle -- a red pickup -- the same suspicious vehicle they had received calls about.

Cops say he asked them if they found the bombs, and upon searching his truck ... they found 11 mason jars containing an unknown liquid with a golf tee in the top of each jar, cloth rags and lighters. AKA -- Molotov cocktails.

Coffman's been arrested, and cops say -- based on security footage -- he was seen leaving the vehicle parked near the Capitol building on Wednesday morning.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/08/alabama-man-lonnie-coffman-arrested-for-possession-of-explosives-and-gun/










Not a reasonable statement. If you take the statement at the rally at the mall. He and Rudy are encouraging people to take action. I am taking a guess that this thing was well planned.
There was new article of someones social media account taking a private jet from CA to D. Then with a photo by broken glass at the capital.
There are reports police arrested a person with molatav cocktails, there are pictures of people with zip ties, many people have onions for their eyes for tear gas. The fbi is looking for information relating to the pipe bomb. This is not a coincidence.

Federal Police Agencies - Please search the emails, phones, and correspondence. (Maybe no Miranda rights needed due to national security threat and previous actions that happened in the capital.) We need to get to the bottom of this.

@IHO -

The clip you're mentioning isn't the focus of the video released by the President. It's easy to parse a small part of a call to disburse out like that, but not as truthful as it could be. I've heard that statement distilled down to claims that POTUS "loves" what happened - one word out of a 2 minute video.  The same  goes for those idiots looking for validation. They don't hear the larger "go home" peaceably message, only what is played over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseum by the media. Those kinds of people looking for any scrap of validation cannot be stopped even if they were called "terrorists" or thugs. The President condemmned Nazi's and the KKK for many years, but did either of these groups stop because of what was said?

Swift law enforcement, thorough prosecution of offenders, and irreducible jail sentences may put he respect of law back where it belongs. I just don't see it given our current culture, what with "protestors" being released, bailed out, and criminal charging enhancements being cancelled by DA's (LA County for example) this may never happen.

Also yes, social media could help identify these kooks. I'm all for it. You post it? You live with the repercussions.   

IMHO these problems have mushroomed once one side was given the "Get out of jail free" card. Looting without law enforcement sends a terrible message. It's basic undenyable human nature for every other group to believe they will get the same treatment - a free pass to riot without consequence. Had more heads been cracked in Seattle, Portland, Long Beach, and other summer riot filled cities, perhaps DC wouldn't have occurred. As soon as a time machine can be made commercially available we might go back and test this theory for success or failure.

My .02c
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 02:53:24 PM by eyephone »

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2021, 02:58:12 PM »
I’m not sore, far from it. The next two years of the Biden administration followed by the last two years of the Harris administration will be endlessly  entertaining. Watching Trump torture them from the sidelines while they get nothing done...I look forward to it...remember, I love the Kaos!! ;D ;) >:D

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Offline eyephone

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2021, 03:07:09 PM »
I’m not sore, far from it. The next two years of the Biden administration followed by the last two years of the Harris administration will be endlessly  entertaining. Watching Trump torture them from the sidelines while they get nothing done...I look forward to it...remember, I love the Kaos!! ;D ;) >:D

Why are you happy Trump torturing the US? You sound really un American right now.

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2021, 03:08:16 PM »
He does not get it. The attack on the Capital was an attack on the US.

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Offline inv0ke-epipen

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Re: Congress Elections
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2021, 03:09:44 PM »
IMHO these problems have mushroomed once one side was given the "Get out of jail free" card. Looting without law enforcement sends a terrible message. It's basic undenyable human nature for every other group to believe they will get the same treatment - a free pass to riot without consequence. Had more heads been cracked in Seattle, Portland, Long Beach, and other summer riot filled cities, perhaps DC wouldn't have occurred. As soon as a time machine can be made commercially available we might go back and test this theory for success or failure.

My .02c



Joking aside, wall of text isn't going to beat images of people in Trump capes attacking the capital in the mindshare game. Trump is doneskies for a while, we'll see what his next move is.

Another important point, BLM or Antifa dont call themselves "the party of law and order" or even "democrats". Their behavior will thus be held to a lower standard, and will not be tied closely to the Biden administration by most folks. Whereas the actions of someone cosplaying as Trump-Man are obviously going to be tied much more firmly to Trump himself.

Not to mention, fighting against systemic oppression is a much more relatable cause than mostly unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud. One sounds like people fighting for their lives and livelihood, the other sounds like a bunch of delusional losers. This worry over voter fraud also feels hypocritical considering the criminal, sometimes brutal, methods of black voter suppression and fraud historically in the US which has an enormous body of evidence compared to anything presented by the Trump camp. Like most things in politics, it seems people only worry about these things when it negatively affects them, ignoring all historical context or even their own previous beliefs.

If hand-wringing over voting fraud allegations leads to anything, I hope its an abolishment of our outdated first past the post voting system and implementation of ranked-choice (or instant runoff) voting. This current system inevitably leads to two divided parties and tends towards enabling unpopular extremist policies favored by a party's base, but not serving the majority of Americans. Of course, neither party wants to give up their stranglehold on power so why would they ever implement it? Unless the system completely breaks down....

CGP does a great job of explaining the inherent problems with our current systems in this playlist. If you have the time I highly recommend giving it a peak and interested to know people's thoughts. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&list=PLNCHVwtpeBY4mybPkHEnRxSOb7FQ2vF9c

 

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