ICE or EV?
- Thread starter irvinehomeowner
- Start date
morekaos
Well-known member
They’re getting cheaper all right, but not for good reasons…
Hertz's EV sale to fan cost concerns, dampen used-car market
"The larger impact of Hertz EV fire sale is the perception hit to the technology," said Karl Brauer, analyst at used-car aggregator iSeeCars.com.
"Mainstream consumers are already hesitant to buy an EV, and this news only supports their concerns."
The higher costs associated with repairing EVs stem from a lack of sufficient expertise in dealing with such vehicles and challenges in getting the replacement parts as they are still very new, industry experts said.
Hertz's EV sale to fan cost concerns, dampen used-car market
"The larger impact of Hertz EV fire sale is the perception hit to the technology," said Karl Brauer, analyst at used-car aggregator iSeeCars.com.
"Mainstream consumers are already hesitant to buy an EV, and this news only supports their concerns."
The higher costs associated with repairing EVs stem from a lack of sufficient expertise in dealing with such vehicles and challenges in getting the replacement parts as they are still very new, industry experts said.
morekaos
Well-known member
Always pays to be ahead of the crowd….
Ford and GM aren't cutting EV production because they want to. They are doing so because the market is forcing them to. People want reliable vehicles that meet their needs. They don't want to pay a five-figure repair bill for a new battery or because an electric motor failed. Gas-powered cars are not only far more capable, they are cheaper when it comes to acquisition, maintenance, and operating costs. The nexus of spending money on fuel vs. electricity is so far apart that you'll be buying the aforementioned new battery long before you approach any actual savings.
Electric Vehicles Enter the 'Total Failure' Phase of Their Existence
There is no better example of government idiocy than the top-down push for electric vehicles, which at this point has cost American taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. They were a solution to a problem that didn't exist, and even then, they turned out to not be a solution at all. It's not just about cost either. How useful is a car that loses most of its range when it gets below freezing? How useful is a car that can't be driven for more than a few hours in a row, even in perfect conditions?Ford and GM aren't cutting EV production because they want to. They are doing so because the market is forcing them to. People want reliable vehicles that meet their needs. They don't want to pay a five-figure repair bill for a new battery or because an electric motor failed. Gas-powered cars are not only far more capable, they are cheaper when it comes to acquisition, maintenance, and operating costs. The nexus of spending money on fuel vs. electricity is so far apart that you'll be buying the aforementioned new battery long before you approach any actual savings.
morekaos
Well-known member
And the prisoners begin to eat each other…
Stellantis CEO warns of EV ‘bloodbath’ and ‘race to the bottom’ if car makers follow Elon Musk’s lead and start cutting prices
"If you go and cut pricing disregarding the reality of your costs, you will have a bloodbath. I am trying to avoid a race to the bottom," Tavares said at an Amsterdam event on Friday, where he also unveiled Stellantis’ new large-platform battery system.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...31&cvid=eb3017d8d9304366a7ab310c98601ac8&ei=5
Stellantis CEO warns of EV ‘bloodbath’ and ‘race to the bottom’ if car makers follow Elon Musk’s lead and start cutting prices
"If you go and cut pricing disregarding the reality of your costs, you will have a bloodbath. I am trying to avoid a race to the bottom," Tavares said at an Amsterdam event on Friday, where he also unveiled Stellantis’ new large-platform battery system.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...31&cvid=eb3017d8d9304366a7ab310c98601ac8&ei=5
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I've read that article (it was also on Electrek).
They want to profit on EVs but because Telsa has such a big head start in mass production and cost control, they can't compete.
So, what would you do in that type of situation?
They want to profit on EVs but because Telsa has such a big head start in mass production and cost control, they can't compete.
So, what would you do in that type of situation?
morekaos
Well-known member
do what they’re doing, build more ice cars that people want (and make more money) , reduce building things people don’t want, (and stop losing money)…easy
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
So let's pretend you need to build your EV product (because there is demand).
Do you forget the value proposition and build more expensive EVs to cover your costs/margins?
Or do you try to compete with Tesla with lower cost EVs but maybe cut corners on certain things like range or features just to have something in the value segment?
ICE is going to become a smaller market just like ISP dialup, pagers, flip phones and Blackberry... I read in another forum how this is similar to the horse and buggy transition to automobiles.
It's going to happen... how do you position yourself so that you don't go extinct.
Do you forget the value proposition and build more expensive EVs to cover your costs/margins?
Or do you try to compete with Tesla with lower cost EVs but maybe cut corners on certain things like range or features just to have something in the value segment?
ICE is going to become a smaller market just like ISP dialup, pagers, flip phones and Blackberry... I read in another forum how this is similar to the horse and buggy transition to automobiles.
It's going to happen... how do you position yourself so that you don't go extinct.
as I said Toyota understands this
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I don't think ceding to Tesla is a smart strategy. That's like telling all the Android phone makers to cede to Apple.
You need to be able to compete.
You need to be able to compete.
morekaos
Well-known member
Like I have said…Toyota has a bead on it…
Head of world's No1 automaker Toyota says battery EVs will never account for more than 3 in 10 vehicles sold - as 'customers not regulations or politics will decide' fate
· Grandson of Toyota founder said that EVs will only have minority of the market
· The executive emphasized Toyota is investing in hybrids and fuel cell cars too
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electric-cars-never-dominate-market-143001471.html
Head of world's No1 automaker Toyota says battery EVs will never account for more than 3 in 10 vehicles sold - as 'customers not regulations or politics will decide' fate
· Grandson of Toyota founder said that EVs will only have minority of the market
· The executive emphasized Toyota is investing in hybrids and fuel cell cars too
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electric-cars-never-dominate-market-143001471.html
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Do you really think politics are deciding this? Tesla sold a ton of EV without credits.
That's like saying politics decided to use the Internet or adopt smartphones.
Fuel cell cars? Now that's the big joke. Hydrogen has failed miserably.
That's like saying politics decided to use the Internet or adopt smartphones.
Fuel cell cars? Now that's the big joke. Hydrogen has failed miserably.
morekaos
Well-known member
Markets will decide this, the only politics is the governments artificial financial support. (Wasted money) Even with that, the markets have dropped the hammer. Like the mortgage crisis, government intervention only prolonged the pain, it didn’t avert it
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Your opinion has colored the reality.
Again... Tesla has sold tons of EVs without Fed credits prior to 2023. Since 2023, the Fed credits are very limited by origin of build, origin of battery materials and income. The highest selling EVs from Kia/Hyundai don't even qualify for Fed credits on purchases so consumers are buying them based on their own demand, no government cheese.
Yet you don't want to recognize that.
Again... Tesla has sold tons of EVs without Fed credits prior to 2023. Since 2023, the Fed credits are very limited by origin of build, origin of battery materials and income. The highest selling EVs from Kia/Hyundai don't even qualify for Fed credits on purchases so consumers are buying them based on their own demand, no government cheese.
Yet you don't want to recognize that.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
You also know he is no longer CEO... had to step down partly because of his anti-EV views.
And 30% has already been surpassed in other countries... so he's making a losing bet... just like you.
morekaos
Well-known member
He is the chairman of Toyota Motor, Corp., doesn’t matter, he’s far more qualified than you, or even me to make that call. And it certainly looks like the chairman of Ford Stellantis and General motors are coming around to agreeing with him. Market forces dictated by what consumers want…and it’s not EV’s
morekaos
Well-known member
even Teslas in trouble….
Those cuts saw Tesla’s profit margin decrease by over 40% year-over-year, as of last year’s Q3 earnings report. Musk said in a subsequent earnings call that with interest rates remaining high, Tesla will need to keep cutting prices in order to keep monthly payments low enough to be attractive to consumers
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I thought you were a savvy business guy?
You do now what volume and market share will do for a company?
It doesn't matter... you keep saying things that are not backed up by the data... EVs sales have increased every year.
You keep sayiing it's a political thing or a green thing... it's not... it's a technological advancement thing... just like the internet, just like the smartphone... just like electricity. I get it... you are afraid of technology... it's okay... it's not magic or wizardy... it's improvement of life.
Once you realize that... you will understand.
Do I think EVs will replace ICE altogether... nope... there are scenarios where ICE makes more sense... but it's not going to be only 30%.
You do now what volume and market share will do for a company?
It doesn't matter... you keep saying things that are not backed up by the data... EVs sales have increased every year.
You keep sayiing it's a political thing or a green thing... it's not... it's a technological advancement thing... just like the internet, just like the smartphone... just like electricity. I get it... you are afraid of technology... it's okay... it's not magic or wizardy... it's improvement of life.
Once you realize that... you will understand.
Do I think EVs will replace ICE altogether... nope... there are scenarios where ICE makes more sense... but it's not going to be only 30%.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Ousted president and CEO tells you more.