God?

[Mety]

So just like I feel that non-Christians can somehow get into heaven, so can people who commit suicide.

But here is the question, one can argue that by committing suicide you have lost your faith in God or no longer believe in Him, so what point in time can you profess "faith" and "repentance"?

How do you repent for your sins after you killed yourself? And if you say that you can in spirit after you die, then the same can be said in "faith" in Jesus for non-Christians after they die.

There are 2 kinds of repentances.

1. The repentance of your sinful nature before God
2. The repentance of your daily mistakes

The list number 1 technically can be done only once in your life time. It's not to say you can't do more than once, but what matters is that you have acknowledged your sin and short coming of the perfect holiness, which is required for you to be saved, before God. That means you admit that you deserve to go hell. But by putting yourself on what Jesus had already done, which He died in place of you, you're having a faith that your life on your own no longer is measured before God but now Jesus' status is your own status. That is the ONLY way to be saved. A simple example would be a woman is married to her husband and now she has his last name. In that sense, they are "one." The same thing of our relationship to Christ, we have Jesus as our husband and we have His status, which is that "perfect holiness." This is the only thing that is required for someone to go to heaven or to be saved. This is the true repentance.

While we are saved, we still live our daily lives and fall into mistakes, sometimes even sinning against God until Christ returns and sets His Kingdom. That's where we do the list number 2. We pray and ask God for forgiveness daily. Though this is not a real requirement for someone to be "saved," a real saved person would do so since he/she acknowledges God knows and sees everything.

@IHO, what do you mean by "non-Christians can somehow get into heaven?" Can you please explain further on this?

 

[Liar Loan]

While we're on a topic of suicide in this thread, I find many Christians say that people who commit suicide can't go to heaven or can't be saved.

I personally don't believe that to be true.

If you believe in God who forgives all sins then isn't committing suicide also considered to be forgiven?

I can explain more, but want to hear what your opinions are first.

Thoughts?

I think Catholics are taught that suicide leads to damnation, but I'm with you, those who have repented of their sin would indeed be forgiven.

Do you know what Catholics are basing their teaching on that one? I think they've done more wrong by adding those human standards instead of keeping it all God's standards for the salvation issue.

They believe it is a mortal sin meaning it needs to be repented of before death.  Since you can't repent of suicide after the fact, it's believed your chances of getting into Heaven are reduced, if not eliminated.

They also have a lesser tier of sins called venial sins that are treated more like infractions.  Examples of these would be a white lie, stealing a piece of candy, or cursing at somebody.

Again, I'm with you... Jesus taught that sin is not just the act of doing something wrong, but is determined by what is in our hearts.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

So just like I feel that non-Christians can somehow get into heaven, so can people who commit suicide.

But here is the question, one can argue that by committing suicide you have lost your faith in God or no longer believe in Him, so what point in time can you profess "faith" and "repentance"?

How do you repent for your sins after you killed yourself? And if you say that you can in spirit after you die, then the same can be said in "faith" in Jesus for non-Christians after they die.

There are 2 kinds of repentances.

1. The repentance of your sinful nature before God
2. The repentance of your daily mistakes

The list number 1 technically can be done only once in your life time. It's not to say you can't do more than once, but what matters is that you have acknowledged your sin and short coming of the perfect holiness, which is required for you to be saved, before God. That means you admit that you deserve to go hell. But by putting yourself on what Jesus had already done, which He died in place of you, you're having a faith that your life on your own no longer is measured before God but now Jesus' status is your own status. That is the ONLY way to be saved. A simple example would be a woman is married to her husband and now she has his last name. In that sense, they are "one." The same thing of our relationship to Christ, we have Jesus as our husband and we have His status, which is that "perfect holiness." This is the only thing that is required for someone to go to heaven or to be saved. This is the true repentance.

While we are saved, we still live our daily lives and fall into mistakes, sometimes even sinning against God until Christ returns and sets His Kingdom. That's where we do the list number 2. We pray and ask God for forgiveness daily. Though this is not a real requirement for someone to be "saved," a real saved person would do so since he/she acknowledges God knows and sees everything.

So what happens to those who lose their faith... or "divorce" from Christ... are they still saved?

@IHO, what do you mean by "non-Christians can somehow get into heaven?" Can you please explain further on this?

We talked about this before with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc who don't believe Jesus is God. While the Bible teaches us there is no way to heaven but through Jesus, the ultimate judgement belongs to God and I feel in the end, heaven won't be that exclusive.

 

[Mety]

So just like I feel that non-Christians can somehow get into heaven, so can people who commit suicide.

But here is the question, one can argue that by committing suicide you have lost your faith in God or no longer believe in Him, so what point in time can you profess "faith" and "repentance"?

How do you repent for your sins after you killed yourself? And if you say that you can in spirit after you die, then the same can be said in "faith" in Jesus for non-Christians after they die.

There are 2 kinds of repentances.

1. The repentance of your sinful nature before God
2. The repentance of your daily mistakes

The list number 1 technically can be done only once in your life time. It's not to say you can't do more than once, but what matters is that you have acknowledged your sin and short coming of the perfect holiness, which is required for you to be saved, before God. That means you admit that you deserve to go hell. But by putting yourself on what Jesus had already done, which He died in place of you, you're having a faith that your life on your own no longer is measured before God but now Jesus' status is your own status. That is the ONLY way to be saved. A simple example would be a woman is married to her husband and now she has his last name. In that sense, they are "one." The same thing of our relationship to Christ, we have Jesus as our husband and we have His status, which is that "perfect holiness." This is the only thing that is required for someone to go to heaven or to be saved. This is the true repentance.

While we are saved, we still live our daily lives and fall into mistakes, sometimes even sinning against God until Christ returns and sets His Kingdom. That's where we do the list number 2. We pray and ask God for forgiveness daily. Though this is not a real requirement for someone to be "saved," a real saved person would do so since he/she acknowledges God knows and sees everything.

So what happens to those who lose their faith... or "divorce" from Christ... are they still saved?

@IHO, what do you mean by "non-Christians can somehow get into heaven?" Can you please explain further on this?

We talked about this before with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc who don't believe Jesus is God. While the Bible teaches us there is no way to heaven but through Jesus, the ultimate judgement belongs to God and I feel in the end, heaven won't be that exclusive.

According to the Bible, specifically 1 John 2 and Romans 8 as these are the most famous ones about this issue, once you're saved, God will never lose you. Those who fall apart and change their mind on who Jesus is were never really saved from the beginning. They might have come up to the front and signed the paper and all that out of emotion, but never were really genuine. They never did that list number 1 I mentioned above. I also encourage you to read John 6:35-40. Jesus talks about how He will never lose anyone the Father draws to Him. Once saved, always saved. Otherwise, what makes God the faithful God, right?

Is heaven exclusive? According to Jesus, it is. If you want to know what verses, I will quote for you. Remember, everyone, I mean EVERYONE deserves to go to hell. But God will save those who put their faith on His Son, Jesus. It's not really God who's being unfair here. It's the people themselves who choose to go to hell. That is the reason for the judgment.
"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil." - John 3:19

If you disagree, then are you saying Jesus was lying when He said He was the only way?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

So just like I feel that non-Christians can somehow get into heaven, so can people who commit suicide.

But here is the question, one can argue that by committing suicide you have lost your faith in God or no longer believe in Him, so what point in time can you profess "faith" and "repentance"?

How do you repent for your sins after you killed yourself? And if you say that you can in spirit after you die, then the same can be said in "faith" in Jesus for non-Christians after they die.

There are 2 kinds of repentances.

1. The repentance of your sinful nature before God
2. The repentance of your daily mistakes

The list number 1 technically can be done only once in your life time. It's not to say you can't do more than once, but what matters is that you have acknowledged your sin and short coming of the perfect holiness, which is required for you to be saved, before God. That means you admit that you deserve to go hell. But by putting yourself on what Jesus had already done, which He died in place of you, you're having a faith that your life on your own no longer is measured before God but now Jesus' status is your own status. That is the ONLY way to be saved. A simple example would be a woman is married to her husband and now she has his last name. In that sense, they are "one." The same thing of our relationship to Christ, we have Jesus as our husband and we have His status, which is that "perfect holiness." This is the only thing that is required for someone to go to heaven or to be saved. This is the true repentance.

While we are saved, we still live our daily lives and fall into mistakes, sometimes even sinning against God until Christ returns and sets His Kingdom. That's where we do the list number 2. We pray and ask God for forgiveness daily. Though this is not a real requirement for someone to be "saved," a real saved person would do so since he/she acknowledges God knows and sees everything.

So what happens to those who lose their faith... or "divorce" from Christ... are they still saved?

@IHO, what do you mean by "non-Christians can somehow get into heaven?" Can you please explain further on this?

We talked about this before with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc who don't believe Jesus is God. While the Bible teaches us there is no way to heaven but through Jesus, the ultimate judgement belongs to God and I feel in the end, heaven won't be that exclusive.

According to the Bible, specifically 1 John 2 and Romans 8 as these are the most famous ones about this issue, once you're saved, God will never lose you. Those who fall apart and change their mind on who Jesus is were never really saved from the beginning. They might have come up to the front and signed the paper and all that out of emotion, but never were really genuine. They never did that list number 1 I mentioned above. I also encourage you to read John 6:35-40. Jesus talks about how He will never lose anyone the Father draws to Him. Once saved, always saved. Otherwise, what makes God the faithful God, right?

So using that logic, one can argue that some who commit suicide were also never saved in the the first place. If they were, they would not take their own life.

Is heaven exclusive? According to Jesus, it is. If you want to know what verses, I will quote for you. Remember, everyone, I mean EVERYONE deserves to go to hell. But God will save those who put their faith on His Son, Jesus. It's not really God who's being unfair here. It's the people themselves who choose to go to hell. That is the reason for the judgment.
"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil." - John 3:19

If you disagree, then are you saying Jesus was lying when He said He was the only way?

It's not lying if God decides otherwise.

If I tell my kid that he/she can''t have something until they do something but my wife decides to give it to them anyways... was I lying?

 

[Mety]

So just like I feel that non-Christians can somehow get into heaven, so can people who commit suicide.

But here is the question, one can argue that by committing suicide you have lost your faith in God or no longer believe in Him, so what point in time can you profess "faith" and "repentance"?

How do you repent for your sins after you killed yourself? And if you say that you can in spirit after you die, then the same can be said in "faith" in Jesus for non-Christians after they die.

There are 2 kinds of repentances.

1. The repentance of your sinful nature before God
2. The repentance of your daily mistakes

The list number 1 technically can be done only once in your life time. It's not to say you can't do more than once, but what matters is that you have acknowledged your sin and short coming of the perfect holiness, which is required for you to be saved, before God. That means you admit that you deserve to go hell. But by putting yourself on what Jesus had already done, which He died in place of you, you're having a faith that your life on your own no longer is measured before God but now Jesus' status is your own status. That is the ONLY way to be saved. A simple example would be a woman is married to her husband and now she has his last name. In that sense, they are "one." The same thing of our relationship to Christ, we have Jesus as our husband and we have His status, which is that "perfect holiness." This is the only thing that is required for someone to go to heaven or to be saved. This is the true repentance.

While we are saved, we still live our daily lives and fall into mistakes, sometimes even sinning against God until Christ returns and sets His Kingdom. That's where we do the list number 2. We pray and ask God for forgiveness daily. Though this is not a real requirement for someone to be "saved," a real saved person would do so since he/she acknowledges God knows and sees everything.

So what happens to those who lose their faith... or "divorce" from Christ... are they still saved?

@IHO, what do you mean by "non-Christians can somehow get into heaven?" Can you please explain further on this?

We talked about this before with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc who don't believe Jesus is God. While the Bible teaches us there is no way to heaven but through Jesus, the ultimate judgement belongs to God and I feel in the end, heaven won't be that exclusive.

According to the Bible, specifically 1 John 2 and Romans 8 as these are the most famous ones about this issue, once you're saved, God will never lose you. Those who fall apart and change their mind on who Jesus is were never really saved from the beginning. They might have come up to the front and signed the paper and all that out of emotion, but never were really genuine. They never did that list number 1 I mentioned above. I also encourage you to read John 6:35-40. Jesus talks about how He will never lose anyone the Father draws to Him. Once saved, always saved. Otherwise, what makes God the faithful God, right?

So using that logic, one can argue that some who commit suicide were also never saved in the the first place. If they were, they would not take their own life.

Is heaven exclusive? According to Jesus, it is. If you want to know what verses, I will quote for you. Remember, everyone, I mean EVERYONE deserves to go to hell. But God will save those who put their faith on His Son, Jesus. It's not really God who's being unfair here. It's the people themselves who choose to go to hell. That is the reason for the judgment.
"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil." - John 3:19

If you disagree, then are you saying Jesus was lying when He said He was the only way?

It's not lying if God decides otherwise.

If I tell my kid that he/she can''t have something until they do something but my wife decides to give it to them anyways... was I lying?

A real saved Christian most likely would not commit suicide. But not knowing full stories of such person, we can never judge and draw the line of someone's salvation based on what "looks" right or wrong. God is the only one who knows all things and He clearly says in the Bible He can forgive all sins except blaspheming the Spirit which is denying of Jesus as Son of God. So I would say using God's standard is what we can do best instead of trying to use our own logic and make that a standard of salvation.

Jesus and Father are ONE. They never disagree on ANYTHING. If you're going to say what about that time Jesus' prayer of "Remove this cup from me" was denied, then you don't really get the full story there and I would be glad to explain that correctly for you if you need.

If you say Jesus said this, but God the Father said that, then you should seriously ask yourself if you're Christian. That would be more like a Jewish perspective since they believe in God but don't believe Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Liar Loan]

A real saved Christian most likely would not commit suicide. But not knowing full stories of such person, we can never judge and draw the line of someone's salvation based on what "looks" right or wrong. God is the only one who knows all things and He clearly says in the Bible He can forgive all sins except blaspheming the Spirit which is denying of Jesus as Son of God. So I would say using God's standard is what we can do best instead of trying to use our own logic and make that a standard of salvation.

I'm going to disagree on this.  I have seen too much evidence to the contrary. 

Recently, a pastor at Harvest Church whose ministry focused on mental health took his own life.  Rick Warren's son also did (who I assume was a Christian), and I know Mrs. Warren now travels to various churches teaching on mental health as a result.  I've also had somebody in my life, a sibling of my son's friend, take his own life and by all accounts he lived a Christian life and impacted others for Christ.

I think it's hard for those of us not going through depression to reconcile these actions, but it's something that overpowers their better judgement and self control, just like a lot of other sins.  That's not even accounting for the biological, chemical component that affects many people with depression.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Jesus and Father are ONE. They never disagree on ANYTHING. If you're going to say what about that time Jesus' prayer of "Remove this cup from me" was denied, then you don't really get the full story there and I would be glad to explain that correctly for you if you need.

If you say Jesus said this, but God the Father said that, then you should seriously ask yourself if you're Christian. That would be more like a Jewish perspective since they believe in God but don't believe Jesus is the Son of God.

You are missing my point. Not once did I say Jesus was lying or that he and God disagreed. What I did say is that it's possible that when it comes to final judgement, God may change his mind, and Jesus would agree with him.

That's neither a Christian or Jewish perspective... that's a "love all people" one.

 

[Mety]

Jesus and Father are ONE. They never disagree on ANYTHING. If you're going to say what about that time Jesus' prayer of "Remove this cup from me" was denied, then you don't really get the full story there and I would be glad to explain that correctly for you if you need.

If you say Jesus said this, but God the Father said that, then you should seriously ask yourself if you're Christian. That would be more like a Jewish perspective since they believe in God but don't believe Jesus is the Son of God.

You are missing my point. Not once did I say Jesus was lying or that he and God disagreed. What I did say is that it's possible that when it comes to final judgement, God may change his mind, and Jesus would agree with him.

That's neither a Christian or Jewish perspective... that's a "love all people" one.

God may change his mind? Wow, that's certainly not a Christian theology nor a love. Love is real when it's being kept. What Jesus said is what God said. What God said is never going to change. That is the REAL LOVE that His promise is being kept. Seriously, how did you come to such conclusion?

 

[Mety]

A real saved Christian most likely would not commit suicide. But not knowing full stories of such person, we can never judge and draw the line of someone's salvation based on what "looks" right or wrong. God is the only one who knows all things and He clearly says in the Bible He can forgive all sins except blaspheming the Spirit which is denying of Jesus as Son of God. So I would say using God's standard is what we can do best instead of trying to use our own logic and make that a standard of salvation.

I'm going to disagree on this.  I have seen too much evidence to the contrary. 

Recently, a pastor at Harvest Church whose ministry focused on mental health took his own life.  Rick Warren's son also did (who I assume was a Christian), and I know Mrs. Warren now travels to various churches teaching on mental health as a result.  I've also had somebody in my life, a sibling of my son's friend, take his own life and by all accounts he lived a Christian life and impacted others for Christ.

I think it's hard for those of us not going through depression to reconcile these actions, but it's something that overpowers their better judgement and self control, just like a lot of other sins.  That's not even accounting for the biological, chemical component that affects many people with depression.

I'm not sure how what you're saying is contrary to what I'm saying here. I don't know if that pastor from Harvest or Rick Warren's son were real Christians or not, but I'm saying we never know the full story of someone who takes life so we can't judge. However, in most cases (not all), a Christian would not commit such a thing. Is it still contrary to what you're saying?

Although I would like to add that I'm not quite sure if a church pastor should really focus on teaching of mental health. I believe their job is to preach the gospel and proclaim Jesus as the Son of God. I don't know how they would want to focus on something else.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Jesus and Father are ONE. They never disagree on ANYTHING. If you're going to say what about that time Jesus' prayer of "Remove this cup from me" was denied, then you don't really get the full story there and I would be glad to explain that correctly for you if you need.

If you say Jesus said this, but God the Father said that, then you should seriously ask yourself if you're Christian. That would be more like a Jewish perspective since they believe in God but don't believe Jesus is the Son of God.

You are missing my point. Not once did I say Jesus was lying or that he and God disagreed. What I did say is that it's possible that when it comes to final judgement, God may change his mind, and Jesus would agree with him.

That's neither a Christian or Jewish perspective... that's a "love all people" one.

God may change his mind? Wow, that's certainly not a Christian theology nor a love. Love is real when it's being kept. What Jesus said is what God said. What God said is never going to change. That is the REAL LOVE that His promise is being kept. Seriously, how did you come to such conclusion?

Why not? Anyone can change their mind. Or maybe we don't understand him enough to know what he will truly do when it comes down to it. Why are you so absolute? If God says something contrary to what he said previously, will you tell him he can't do that? Will your head explode?

So you believe that every person who does not believe in Jesus will not be saved. Does that include infants, mentally ill, or anyone who was never taught about Jesus?

You are very judgy.. that's not Christian-like either.

 

[Mety]

Jesus and Father are ONE. They never disagree on ANYTHING. If you're going to say what about that time Jesus' prayer of "Remove this cup from me" was denied, then you don't really get the full story there and I would be glad to explain that correctly for you if you need.

If you say Jesus said this, but God the Father said that, then you should seriously ask yourself if you're Christian. That would be more like a Jewish perspective since they believe in God but don't believe Jesus is the Son of God.

You are missing my point. Not once did I say Jesus was lying or that he and God disagreed. What I did say is that it's possible that when it comes to final judgement, God may change his mind, and Jesus would agree with him.

That's neither a Christian or Jewish perspective... that's a "love all people" one.

God may change his mind? Wow, that's certainly not a Christian theology nor a love. Love is real when it's being kept. What Jesus said is what God said. What God said is never going to change. That is the REAL LOVE that His promise is being kept. Seriously, how did you come to such conclusion?

Why not? Anyone can change their mind. Or maybe we don't understand him enough to know what he will truly do when it comes down to it. Why are you so absolute? If God says something contrary to what he said previously, will you tell him he can't do that? Will your head explode?

So you believe that every person who does not believe in Jesus will not be saved. Does that include infants, mentally ill, or anyone who was never taught about Jesus?

You are very judgy.. that's not Christian-like either.

Before I get into all details, let me ask you this question which might refresh your thoughts.

If there was a Judge who pardons everyone who committed murders and lets them go free, would you think of that Judge as a forgiving and loving judge? Or would you say he/she is more like someone who can?t do the job right?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

That's not the same scenario. Try again and I'll answer if it's comparable.

 

[Mety]

That's not the same scenario. Try again and I'll answer if it's comparable.

It is.
But you don't want to admit it is.
Or you don't know it really is.
I really wish it's the latter.

 

[Mety]

Jesus and Father are ONE. They never disagree on ANYTHING. If you're going to say what about that time Jesus' prayer of "Remove this cup from me" was denied, then you don't really get the full story there and I would be glad to explain that correctly for you if you need.

If you say Jesus said this, but God the Father said that, then you should seriously ask yourself if you're Christian. That would be more like a Jewish perspective since they believe in God but don't believe Jesus is the Son of God.

You are missing my point. Not once did I say Jesus was lying or that he and God disagreed. What I did say is that it's possible that when it comes to final judgement, God may change his mind, and Jesus would agree with him.

That's neither a Christian or Jewish perspective... that's a "love all people" one.

God may change his mind? Wow, that's certainly not a Christian theology nor a love. Love is real when it's being kept. What Jesus said is what God said. What God said is never going to change. That is the REAL LOVE that His promise is being kept. Seriously, how did you come to such conclusion?

Why not? Anyone can change their mind. Or maybe we don't understand him enough to know what he will truly do when it comes down to it. Why are you so absolute? If God says something contrary to what he said previously, will you tell him he can't do that? Will your head explode?

So you believe that every person who does not believe in Jesus will not be saved. Does that include infants, mentally ill, or anyone who was never taught about Jesus?

You are very judgy.. that's not Christian-like either.

Here is one of the definitions of God:
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? - Numbers 23:19

I already have covered previously of those infants, mentally ill and people who never heard about Jesus. But assuming you don't remember, here you go.

Infants who die early are saved. It is mentioned in the Bible when David's infant died. God also defends those who are weak. Someone who never heard about Jesus but are exposed to the goodness and those who admit their sinful nature before the Creator are also most likely saved. Job is one example in the Bible.

As I've mentioned before, there are many people who do "good" things like donating large sums of money to the poor and dedicate their lives for others and etc. while they don't believe in God or Jesus at all. These people are NOT saved UNLESS they admit their goodness comes from God alone and not themselves. Those who admit so, God will surely expose Jesus to them somewhere sometime in their life. Remember, God does not forsake those who seek Him. It's always the heart issue, my friend.

As for the Judge example I was asking, it's really referencing God. God is God not only because He keeps His words but also because He is perfectly holy. Perfectly holy means He has the perfect standard to bear with anyone. Since He is the loving Judge, He does want to forgive everyone. So He gave His Son for everyone. Now if you don't believe even after seeing His Son getting everyone's due judgment by dying in place of you, God has to bring due judgment everyone deserves eventually. BUT He is still waiting and waiting and waiting all these 2019+ years. 

 

[samuroo]

Can God change his mind? No. We change our minds when we're provided with new information. There is no such thing as information that is new to God.
Is it possible that non-Christians can make it to heaven? Not counting children who are too young to make an informed decision, the Bible says no. For me, I have to go by that. But there's a part of me that hopes that God in his grace and mercy will somehow find others "worthy." There is no way for me to know the mind of God. But if I have compassion and love for non-Christians, then how much greater is God's?

Catholics have levels of sin. Christians aren't supposed to (but too often act like it). Even the smallest sin will keep you out of Heaven without Christ. Yet, after a true and sincere repentance, we all continue to sin. But post-redemption sinning no longer has the risk of rescinding our ticket, but I believe it will affect the rewards we receive. I believe that suicide falls into this latter category. Again, there is no way for us to even begin to surmise at what God's view is on the effects of mental illness. I doubt it's as black and white as we try to make it.

 

[Mety]

Can God change his mind? No. We change our minds when we're provided with new information. There is no such thing as information that is new to God.
Is it possible that non-Christians can make it to heaven? Not counting children who are too young to make an informed decision, the Bible says no. For me, I have to go by that. But there's a part of me that hopes that God in his grace and mercy will somehow find others "worthy." There is no way for me to know the mind of God. But if I have compassion and love for non-Christians, then how much greater is God's?

Catholics have levels of sin. Christians aren't supposed to (but too often act like it). Even the smallest sin will keep you out of Heaven without Christ. Yet, after a true and sincere repentance, we all continue to sin. But post-redemption sinning no longer has the risk of rescinding our ticket, but I believe it will affect the rewards we receive. I believe that suicide falls into this latter category. Again, there is no way for us to even begin to surmise at what God's view is on the effects of mental illness. I doubt it's as black and white as we try to make it.

Well said, brother! or sister.

 

[Happiness]

Why does Christian fast food (In-n-Out, Chick-fil-a, Carl's Jr., etc.) taste better than Liberal Godless fast food (McDonalds, Starbucks, etc.)?

Eye... or taste buds... of the beholder.

Didn't realize Carl's was Christian... what is Taco Bell? qwertaco wants to know.

Carl Karcher was a devout Catholic. In the 1980-90s, liberals organized a boycott of Carl's Jr. for Karcher's financial support of anti-abortion groups. I named Carl's Jr, Chick-fil-a, and In-n-Out because all three were subject to liberal boycotts for being pro-life, pro-marriage, and pro GOP, respectively.

Carl Karcher's son is still a priest in the Orange diocese.  I recently met him as he presided over my great uncle's funeral.  My relatives that are Catholic said the Karchers have donated massive sums to the church over the years.

As for the politics of Carl Karcher I would be curious to know if he really was a Republican.  Many Catholics are pro-life Democrats.  I have heard Karcher was extremely unhappy with the direction of the company after he lost majority control, due to their sexy ad campaigns in the early 2000's.

Carl kept a low profile with his philanthropy. When I was a kid, I noticed there were retarded people working at every Carl's Jr. I visited so I finally asked a manager about it. The manager said Carl goes out of his way to give jobs to retarded people even though it was a big loss financially. Carl implemented this policy totally under the radar, unlike a Liberal who would take out a billboard announcing their social consciousness for virtue signaling cred. I knew Carl's personal lawyer who told me CKE fired Carl for many reasons, including that Carl wanted to sell Mexican food which is something CKE later did anyways then they incorporated Green Burrito into Carl's Jr. stores. After CKE fired Carl, they continued to paid him $400k a year as a consultant. BTW, CKE moved to Tennessee last year citing the terrible business environment in California.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@Mety:

If there was a Judge who pardons everyone who committed murders and lets them go free, would you think of that Judge as a forgiving and loving judge? Or would you say he/she is more like someone who can?t do the job right?

Actually I will answer this although it does not apply.

If this judge is God, who am I to say he's not doing his job right. If he chooses to pardon everyone that is his will and being my God I must accept it.

However, to apply this to what I'm saying, if at some point in time, he decides to change his mind, he can do so and again, I must accept it.

I disagree with the notion that God cannot change his mind. Just because he knows everything, does not mean he will do things differently in the future. There are many times in the Bible where God knew what man would do but he allowed it to happen anyway.

Here is my loophole scenario:

When we are all finally called to be judged before God, what is to stop him from asking a Jew or a Muslim this question:

"Now... do you believe that Jesus is my son and there is no way to heaven but through accepting him as your God?"

He will know the conviction behind their answer and bam... heaven via Jesus, or hell via wrong choice. Tada!!!

By the way, I think samuroo is saying almost exactly the same thing I am saying regarding God having the mercy and grace of finding non-Christians "worthy". How is that "well said" when you question my same hope?

 

[Liar Loan]

Why does Christian fast food (In-n-Out, Chick-fil-a, Carl's Jr., etc.) taste better than Liberal Godless fast food (McDonalds, Starbucks, etc.)?

Eye... or taste buds... of the beholder.

Didn't realize Carl's was Christian... what is Taco Bell? qwertaco wants to know.

Carl Karcher was a devout Catholic. In the 1980-90s, liberals organized a boycott of Carl's Jr. for Karcher's financial support of anti-abortion groups. I named Carl's Jr, Chick-fil-a, and In-n-Out because all three were subject to liberal boycotts for being pro-life, pro-marriage, and pro GOP, respectively.

Carl Karcher's son is still a priest in the Orange diocese.  I recently met him as he presided over my great uncle's funeral.  My relatives that are Catholic said the Karchers have donated massive sums to the church over the years.

As for the politics of Carl Karcher I would be curious to know if he really was a Republican.  Many Catholics are pro-life Democrats.  I have heard Karcher was extremely unhappy with the direction of the company after he lost majority control, due to their sexy ad campaigns in the early 2000's.

Carl kept a low profile with his philanthropy. When I was a kid, I noticed there were retarded people working at every Carl's Jr. I visited so I finally asked a manager about it. The manager said Carl goes out of his way to give jobs to retarded people even though it was a big loss financially. Carl implemented this policy totally under the radar, unlike a Liberal who would take out a billboard announcing their social consciousness for virtue signaling cred. I knew Carl's personal lawyer who told me CKE fired Carl for many reasons, including that Carl wanted to sell Mexican food which is something CKE later did anyways then they incorporated Green Burrito into Carl's Jr. stores. After CKE fired Carl, they continued to paid him $400k a year as a consultant. BTW, CKE moved to Tennessee last year citing the terrible business environment in California.

I believe they fired him precisely because of the Green Burrito acquisition, which the board wasn't too happy about.  Ironically, it ended up being very successful.