Villages of Columbus - Columbus Square - Camden Place

[quote author="tkaratz" date=1256456135][quote author="md6380" date=1256344362]

In our place, we have 3 licensed drivers, hence 3 cars. Not being able to park our 3rd car on the street was a big issue for us and would remove Columbus Square from our list of acceptable homes. When we asked about it when we saw the CC&Rs; in writing, the agent told us that you can still park on the streets, it is not an issue. We were lied to by our builders sales people. I'll bet money that this happened to other people too.



The CC&Rs; should be reviewed and revised if necessary, they are not set in stone.</blockquote>


MD, than you should consider your self the luckiest homeowner on the block because you have grounds for a lawsuit against the builder. Of course, your lawsuit is going to get thrown out the window when Lennar produces the three docs you signed acknowledged receipt of that clearly state that you cannot park on the street. But, don't let common sense stop you, by all means, blame other people.</blockquote>


We should of had the sense to not believe Lennar's sales people when they told us it is okay to park on the streets. They lied to us, and we should have not believed them since it was in writing. I'm guessing that this also happened to others. Probably a large amount of others considering how many people these new parking rule changes upset. I'm not trying to blame others here, what I'm trying to say is that the CC&Rs; are not set in stone, and we should see if it is possible to have them reviewed (they probably won't be changed).



I do believe that parking should be regulated in some matter, but not in the manner that is being proposed. The proposed changes seem very inconvenient for home owners, convenient for the HOA, and a revenue generator for the HOA and patrol/towing companies.
 
[quote author="md6380" date=1256555662]We should of had the sense to not believe Lennar's sales people when they told us it is okay to park on the streets.</blockquote>


I don't mean to be rude, but did you read the sales contract? In particular, did you read the part that says something along the lines of, "Whatever out salespeople told you, it doesn't matter because you did your own due diligence and we cannot be responsible for anything that was said because the written language of the contract and the CC&Rs; control over whatever line of BS our sales agents gave you to get you to sign the contract?" It's there, I'm sure. It may not be written exactly as I paraphrased it, but it's there.



So... you may not have received exactly what you expected, but you did get a lesson in why it is important to read the contract you are signing. I'm sorry that happened, but you need to read <em>every</em> line and if you don't understand it, <em>ask</em> your sales agent.
 
[quote author="rickhunter" date=1256268913]I've been through the Columbus Square area and it looks like the parking problems are in the Condo area. What about the SFR (detached NO Driveway) Astoria? I'm thinking these owners are going to have a real problem if they cant park on the streets.

Remember the real problem gripe I'm hearing is that Condo owners/renters are not using their garages to park their cars. If they start doing so, things will be OK going forward?

</blockquote>


I don't live in a condo, but a month ago, Serrano management did a "spot check" of all tenant garages. A week prior, they sent out a written flyer to all units explaining that due to complaints about the scarcity of parking inside the complex, maintenance personnel would be inspecting gargages for vehicle storage compliance.



NOw, since the notice was sent out A FULL WEEK before the week of the inspection, it was kind of like a "see no evil" check. Anyone who used their garage as a storage-room had plenty of time to prep for the inspection,



The week of the inspection, parking inside the complex improved slightly. Now, though, it's back to where it was before the inspection. I'd hate to see what things were like a few years back, when vacancy was very low.
 
you're probably right. if you just do garage inspections, things might get better for a little while but then it'll probably return to the normal chaos again. maybe weekly inspections unannounced on problem neighbors? fines etc can be handed out.



of course, this would be inclusive of what the CCRs are intending to put in place. i think they have it in place already in Columbus Grove so it'll be implemented at Columbus Square for sure. just a matter of time.



[quote author="squeaky_rat" date=1256563930]



I don't live in a condo, but a month ago, Serrano management did a "spot check" of all tenant garages. A week prior, they sent out a written flyer to all units explaining that due to complaints about the scarcity of parking inside the complex, maintenance personnel would be inspecting gargages for vehicle storage compliance.



NOw, since the notice was sent out A FULL WEEK before the week of the inspection, it was kind of like a "see no evil" check. Anyone who used their garage as a storage-room had plenty of time to prep for the inspection,



The week of the inspection, parking inside the complex improved slightly. Now, though, it's back to where it was before the inspection. I'd hate to see what things were like a few years back, when vacancy was very low.</blockquote>
 
Just curious, are the people complaining about parking mainly in the condo areas? We are in the Town Houses and parking has not been a big problem for us. If we get home late at night, there may not be parking behind our places and we have to park on the street. If we get home at a reasonable hour, before 8ish, there's always parking.
 
A neighbor of one of my rental properties (no HOA) has a 2 car garage which he uses for storage. He owns 6 cars. You can imagine why parking enforcement is needed.
 
E-mail I received today. Power to the people.





COLUMBUS SQUARE COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION





To: Columbus Square Homeowners



From: Columbus Square Board of Directors



Re: Proposed Parking Rules



Date: October 25, 2009



The purpose of this correspondence is to respond to all of the homeowners who have submitted comments and feedback on the proposed parking rules to the Board of Directors via e-mail. The Board greatly appreciates all of the comments on this matter and is in receipt of them all. These comments from you and others are exactly what the process envisions and they will all be considered as we work through this process. Due to the number of responses and the specific concerns expressed in the comments from the membership, the Board will very likely table the proposed parking rules and send them back to the Parking Committee for further review and consideration.



The Board would like to share some background on this matter and how we have arrived at this point. The CC&Rs;, Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions for the association, under Section 2.4.3, General Restrictions, page 15 state, ?All vehicles owned or operated by or within the control of an Owner and kept in the Covered property must be parked in the assigned parking space or garage of that Owner to the extent of the space available: provided that, although storage of personal items may occur in the garage, all Authorized Vehicles must be parked in the garage in accordance with Exhibit PC-1, attached hereto. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Owners may not park any Authorized Vehicle in the street or in any guest parking space.?



Based on the CC&Rs;, the board formed an Ad Hoc Parking Committee in December 2008 comprised of homeowners from each different tract within the community to seek fair representation of the different product types. The Committee has investigated this matter and through the surveys which were sent to the membership was able to gain ample feedback from many homeowners. A total of 260 homeowners responded to the surveys with the following results:



No street parking 27.7% 72

Regulated parking program 43.8% 114

Changing the CC&R?s 23.8% 62

Multiple boxes selected 4.7% 12



The Board does have a fiduciary duty to adhere to and enforce the CC&Rs; which all homeowners agreed to abide by when we bought our homes. The intent of this rule change and parking program is not to make life more difficult for homeowners or their guests but to work out a parking program which encompasses all of the factors within the community. With the decal program, the concept was that homeowners who have more vehicles than allocated parking spots (such as their garage and driveway) would be able to park on the community street in front of or near their home as long as they fulfill the requirements and criteria and a nominal fee. For guests of residents who stay past 12:00 midnight, they would need to safe list their vehicles with the patrol company over the telephone or via e-mail.



Be assured, the Board appreciates all of the homeowners who took the time provide their feedback on this matter.
 
I don't know if I'd characterize the letter as "power to the people" - maybe "power to the complaining residents." But anyway, street parking isn't much of a problem yet (wait 'til entire neighborhood is built-out for judgment). Can we get Camden Place homeowners mobilized in an effort to enforce proper garage usage and Guest Parking within our sub-HOA?
 
[quote author="Perspective" date=1256633573]I don't know if I'd characterize the letter as "power to the people" - maybe "power to the complaining residents." But anyway, street parking isn't much of a problem yet (wait 'til entire neighborhood is built-out for judgment). Can we get Camden Place homeowners mobilized in an effort to enforce proper garage usage and Guest Parking within our sub-HOA?</blockquote>


I say push it on the master association board and use their funds, frustration and time to get the job done. Getting another board involved is going to result in another parking program.
 
[quote author="md6380" date=1256555662][quote author="tkaratz" date=1256456135][quote author="md6380" date=1256344362]

In our place, we have 3 licensed drivers, hence 3 cars. Not being able to park our 3rd car on the street was a big issue for us and would remove Columbus Square from our list of acceptable homes. When we asked about it when we saw the CC&Rs; in writing, the agent told us that you can still park on the streets, it is not an issue. We were lied to by our builders sales people. I'll bet money that this happened to other people too.



The CC&Rs; should be reviewed and revised if necessary, they are not set in stone.</blockquote>


MD, than you should consider your self the luckiest homeowner on the block because you have grounds for a lawsuit against the builder. Of course, your lawsuit is going to get thrown out the window when Lennar produces the three docs you signed acknowledged receipt of that clearly state that you cannot park on the street. But, don't let common sense stop you, by all means, blame other people.</blockquote>


We should of had the sense to not believe Lennar's sales people when they told us it is okay to park on the streets. They lied to us, and we should have not believed them since it was in writing. I'm guessing that this also happened to others. Probably a large amount of others considering how many people these new parking rule changes upset. I'm not trying to blame others here, what I'm trying to say is that the CC&Rs; are not set in stone, and we should see if it is possible to have them reviewed (they probably won't be changed).



I do believe that parking should be regulated in some matter, but not in the manner that is being proposed. The proposed changes seem very inconvenient for home owners, convenient for the HOA, and a revenue generator for the HOA and patrol/towing companies.</blockquote>


So what's your proposed program?
 
When the home is too small residents convert their garages to storage and have to park their vehicles outside. The oversized homes there also have their share of parking problems. Big families always have multiple cars parked on the street instead of parking on driveway to eliminate the problem of blocking another car in the garage. This is not just a VOC problem it is universal in Irvine.



I actually encourage more vehicular break in and vandalism. This should motivate people to clean up their garage, put up their relative somewhere else, and park their vehicles in the garage.
 
I think that parking rules should be enforced when a problem arise, but right now, Columbus Square is not even built out yet. It might be several more years before it is. I have no idea why people are even stressing out on parking at this time.



When the time comes, I think each resident should be given one resident parking permit. Each additional permit should cost the resident $100.



As for guest parking, each resident should be able to pick up 10 guest parking passes per month at the community center if they need it.

Any more than that, they should pay $5 per pass.



That is, if a resident has too many cars, then that resident should pay for additional parking.

And if a resident has too many friends staying over pass midnight, they should pay for that too.

My point is, parking should always be available for residents and guests. It would be insane to not be able to park.

But to prevent abuse, fees should be imposed.
 
[quote author="tkaratz" date=1256645056]

So what's your proposed program?</blockquote>


I can't say I've sat down and put hours of thoughts into this. I also do not know the parking situation/issues in the whole community (I live in Meriwether), so I can't say I have enough information to propose a fair program. I do believe that the parking rules should be fair to all areas of the community (condos, town homes, and single family homes).





Here are some thoughts:



The garage inspection system doesn't seem like the greatest solution. I would think somebody could easily clean it just for the inspection, and then go back to their old way of parking on the street.



The decal system could work, but in my opinion I think it should be modified to be fair to all. The condo areas should be a bit more strict, since there is a greater problem there. The single family homes should be allowed more parking permits if needed, since there is move living space (more possible licensed drivers) and more parking space. The current 1 parking permit per household doesn't seem fair to all.



Also, if they go the parking decal route, I think there should be tickets or warnings given before a car is towed. Maybe keep track of how many warnings a car gets a month, and then tow them if so many violation are made within the month (maybe 2 tickets, then tow on the 3rd incident). We are trying to prevent the residents from consistently parking on the streets and not in their garages. Getting 2 parking tickets a month should be enough of a reminder and enforcer for residents to park in their garages.



The SAFELIST system for the decal system seems not to be designed very well and somewhat troublesome. The only neighborhoods where i've seen this work well are in gated communities with 24hr guards (which we do not have). There's a live person, the guard, there to handle permit issues from both the visitor and resident side. In the VOC community, a website and phone number don't seem like enough to conveniently handle a SAFELIST system.
 
[quote author="Shooby" date=1256624512]E-mail I received today. Power to the people.





COLUMBUS SQUARE COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION





To: Columbus Square Homeowners



From: Columbus Square Board of Directors



Re: Proposed Parking Rules



Date: October 25, 2009



The purpose of this correspondence is to respond to all of the homeowners who have submitted comments and feedback on the proposed parking rules to the Board of Directors via e-mail. The Board greatly appreciates all of the comments on this matter and is in receipt of them all. These comments from you and others are exactly what the process envisions and they will all be considered as we work through this process. Due to the number of responses and the specific concerns expressed in the comments from the membership, the Board will very likely table the proposed parking rules and send them back to the Parking Committee for further review and consideration.



The Board would like to share some background on this matter and how we have arrived at this point. The CC&Rs;, Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions for the association, under Section 2.4.3, General Restrictions, page 15 state, ?All vehicles owned or operated by or within the control of an Owner and kept in the Covered property must be parked in the assigned parking space or garage of that Owner to the extent of the space available: provided that, although storage of personal items may occur in the garage, all Authorized Vehicles must be parked in the garage in accordance with Exhibit PC-1, attached hereto. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Owners may not park any Authorized Vehicle in the street or in any guest parking space.?



Based on the CC&Rs;, the board formed an Ad Hoc Parking Committee in December 2008 comprised of homeowners from each different tract within the community to seek fair representation of the different product types. The Committee has investigated this matter and through the surveys which were sent to the membership was able to gain ample feedback from many homeowners. A total of 260 homeowners responded to the surveys with the following results:



No street parking 27.7% 72

Regulated parking program 43.8% 114

Changing the CC&R?s 23.8% 62

Multiple boxes selected 4.7% 12



The Board does have a fiduciary duty to adhere to and enforce the CC&Rs; which all homeowners agreed to abide by when we bought our homes. The intent of this rule change and parking program is not to make life more difficult for homeowners or their guests but to work out a parking program which encompasses all of the factors within the community. With the decal program, the concept was that homeowners who have more vehicles than allocated parking spots (such as their garage and driveway) would be able to park on the community street in front of or near their home as long as they fulfill the requirements and criteria and a nominal fee. For guests of residents who stay past 12:00 midnight, they would need to safe list their vehicles with the patrol company over the telephone or via e-mail.



Be assured, the Board appreciates all of the homeowners who took the time provide their feedback on this matter.</blockquote>


Thanks Shooby. That was the most helpful and insightful post in this thread. Why? Because it has CC&R info in it and spells out the rules and how the residents voted for the change. CC&Rs; are nearly set in stone, so either know what your CC&Rs; say and get involved, because whining here really doesn't do much good, especially when you signed the docs on the parking and CC&Rs;. Remember signed docs supersede anything verbal from your agent, which you signed off on a doc that states any thing verbal from the agent is useless, much like they are as a whole.
 
Parking within Camden Place can be enforced by the residents IF the HOA will warn and penalize violators. I and my neighbors have called and complained about our neighbor using their garage as a living area (couch, TV, etc.). They've been called to a hearing - we'll see what happens. I think the HOA should send a letter to every resident informing each that the HOA is encouraging residents document and report guest parking violators.



Not sure about graphrix' beef? What part of the detailed letter above helps you understand what was stated repeatedly so simply with so many fewer words - that street parking is not allowed?
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1256694872]I think that parking rules should be enforced when a problem arise, but right now, Columbus Square is not even built out yet. It might be several more years before it is. I have no idea why people are even stressing out on parking at this time.



When the time comes, I think each resident should be given one resident parking permit. Each additional permit should cost the resident $100.



As for guest parking, each resident should be able to pick up 10 guest parking passes per month at the community center if they need it.

Any more than that, they should pay $5 per pass.



That is, if a resident has too many cars, then that resident should pay for additional parking.

And if a resident has too many friends staying over pass midnight, they should pay for that too.

My point is, parking should always be available for residents and guests. It would be insane to not be able to park.

But to prevent abuse, fees should be imposed.</blockquote>


Preventative care is the best care. It's poor planning to not address a potential problem until it arises. By your logic, you shouldn't change the oil in your car's engine until you see smoke.
 
[quote author="md6380" date=1256694920][quote author="tkaratz" date=1256645056]

So what's your proposed program?</blockquote>


I can't say I've sat down and put hours of thoughts into this. I also do not know the parking situation/issues in the whole community (I live in Meriwether), so I can't say I have enough information to propose a fair program. I do believe that the parking rules should be fair to all areas of the community (condos, town homes, and single family homes).





Here are some thoughts:



The garage inspection system doesn't seem like the greatest solution. I would think somebody could easily clean it just for the inspection, and then go back to their old way of parking on the street.



The decal system could work, but in my opinion I think it should be modified to be fair to all. The condo areas should be a bit more strict, since there is a greater problem there. The single family homes should be allowed more parking permits if needed, since there is move living space (more possible licensed drivers) and more parking space. </blockquote>


Really, you want to the HOA to grant the richer folks in our neighborhood with additional parking potentially driving their home values artificially up and the home values of the working class folks condos down? Is that something the attached home residents will go for? Given that the vast majority of the homes in the community are attached, I don't think your idea will float.



Only residents who apply for a permit will be subject to a garage inspection. They need to prove that they can fit two cars into a garage in order to get a permit for a third vehicle to park on the street. If you don't want a permit, you aren't subject to a garage inspection.



Sure, someone can clean it just for an inspection and then trash it so they can only fit one car in the garage, but they are still stuck with only one permit for on street parking.
 
[quote author="tkaratz" date=1256735361]

Really, you want to the HOA to grant the richer folks in our neighborhood with additional parking potentially driving their home values artificially up and the home values of the working class folks condos down? Is that something the attached home residents will go for? Given that the vast majority of the homes in the community are attached, I don't think your idea will float.



Only residents who apply for a permit will be subject to a garage inspection. They need to prove that they can fit two cars into a garage in order to get a permit for a third vehicle to park on the street. If you don't want a permit, you aren't subject to a garage inspection.



Sure, someone can clean it just for an inspection and then trash it so they can only fit one car in the garage, but they are still stuck with only one permit for on street parking.</blockquote>


I don't see this as a rich/poor issue, I see this as a parking issue. The unattached houses are larger, may have more licensed drivers, and there is more available parking space. Why shouldn't they be allowed additional permits if needed? The attached condos/town houses (which I live in) are smaller, are less likely to have additional licensed drivers, and have less parking space. These areas need to be controlled more tightly.



I wasn't aware that only residents who apply for a permit would be subjective to a garage inspection. I thought people were proposing to have garage inspections instead of the parking permit system. This would prevent individuals from using their garages as storage or living space.
 
I am so damn glad I didn't end up buying in Camden Place! I agree completely with Graphix, this thread has been highly frustrating because of the lack of actual information, which was finally provided by Shooby.



To all complainers who want to park on the street, you are SOL. End of discussion.



Relevant excerpt of CC&R Section 2.4.3 - <strong>Owners may not park any Authorized Vehicle in the street or in any guest parking space.</strong>



All the heat and noise and indignation about having more licensed drivers than allowed parking spaces is just hot air - those complaining had FULL disclosure of the parking requirements, and agreed to them when they purchased their property. If you don't like it, move. That is the price you pay for lving in a development governed by HOAs. I will NEVER live in a such a place.



[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1256694872]

As for guest parking, each resident should be able to pick up 10 guest parking passes per month at the community center if they need it.

Any more than that, they should pay $5 per pass. </blockquote>


That sounds like pure hell, to be honest. I have visitors at my place all the time, including weekly dinner parties attended by at least 7 people, often more. Under this horrid scheme, I'd be paying my HOA at least $90/mo. for the privilege of hosting my friends. No, thank you.



To each their own, but I seriously cannot understand the mindset that would find this an acceptable living situation. Bring on the Costa Mesa SFR!!
 
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