Toyota moving to Texas
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Or I should add the Warriors and the Kings to mine.
http://www.topuniversities.com/univ...region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=
http://www.timeshighereducation.co....14/subject-ranking/subject/engineering-and-IT
The US is the only country that has 5 or more schools in the top 10 on both of those lists. The top university in the world is MIT, the 2nd... Stanford... both in the US.
You seem to be trying to steer the narrative to support your opinion but the facts are not on your side.
I think you might be preaching to the choir here. lol.
remember that proposition that came out to tax people for schools but the money doesn't go to schools for at least 5 years? what a joke.. nobody understood that our CA politicians were just seeking more revenue.
The supposed gap is a self-serving and convenient myth perpetuated by corporate execs. Corp execs want *cheap*, skilled labor so they repeat the myth. And then the echo chamber takes over...
That is sort of my point. Wouldn't it have been better if those jobs stayed right here instead of losing half of them to TN? Or wouldn't the 4000 plus, six figure jobs in Plano TX serve our better interest if they moved TO Torrance instead of TX? These jobs were already here, all we had to do was keep them and we couldn't even do that.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Actually, I had originally wrote that but then looked at a map of Texas. Plano is so far from San Antonio and Houston, you might as well include the Thunder in your list.eyephone said:irvinehomeowner said:But super hot weather, beaches are much farther away, property taxes are double and instead of the Lakers or Clippers, they have the Mavericks.morekaos said:
Correction: NBA teams they have the Mavericks, Spurs, and Rockets.
Or I should add the Warriors and the Kings to mine.
Irvinecommuter
New member
And yet companies (including Apple) are bringing back manufacturing jobs to the US due to better workers, copyright protection, easier management, and shipping costs.
California/US need to focus on high education/high skill jobs...not see how low we can drop wages or how much of our environment we can destroy.
California/US need to focus on high education/high skill jobs...not see how low we can drop wages or how much of our environment we can destroy.
morekaos
Well-known member
Our system needs to concentrate on pumping out more and better engineers. Not just higher educated kids with a BA in Medieval women's puppetering. Notice Apple has not yet fulfilled that 2012 pledge to bring those jobs back? They know we currently lack the skills in the current workforce to pull it off, no matter what state you are in,
J
jmoney74
Guest
I don't know what we can do as a state. I keep voting one way.. and it goes opposite. I just vote all Republican just for the heck of it LOL. Doesn't work. People get swayed here so easily with these lame propositions.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Seems like this is personal to you because this sounds like rhetoric. The best engineering education is in the US so I don't know where you're getting your facts.morekaos said:
http://www.topuniversities.com/univ...region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=
http://www.timeshighereducation.co....14/subject-ranking/subject/engineering-and-IT
The US is the only country that has 5 or more schools in the top 10 on both of those lists. The top university in the world is MIT, the 2nd... Stanford... both in the US.
I'm assuming Apple is not bringing them back yet because of scale and cost... not because of lack of skills.
You seem to be trying to steer the narrative to support your opinion but the facts are not on your side.
J
jmoney74
Guest
morekaos said:
I think you might be preaching to the choir here. lol.
remember that proposition that came out to tax people for schools but the money doesn't go to schools for at least 5 years? what a joke.. nobody understood that our CA politicians were just seeking more revenue.
morekaos
Well-known member
I am not arguing about the quality of our engineering schools. I myself am a product of UCLA. Apple has been very vocal from both Jobs and Cook about the woeful lack in this area..
Which brings us to engineers. Apple?s close cooperation with suppliers to develop new products means that it is wedded to its supply chain in China. It needs engineers and managers on the ground to continuously monitor developments at its component suppliers and manufacturers. And as it plans a wider array of products, it needs more engineers in China than ever before and has been aggressively trying to hire them in Shanghai and Taipei.
That?s why manufacturing jobs aren?t the only ones that may be difficult to move back to the U.S.
Additionally..
If you look at the reasons why Apple is manufacturing in China, you will find it is not necessarily about costs. As New York Times reporter Charles Duhigg explained to Ira Glass on This American Life the difference in labor costs between making the iPhone in China and the U.S. is somewhere between $10-$65 per piece. The main reason, according to Duhigg, is the flexibility within the Chinese supply chain that allows it to meet Apple?s requirements quickly and efficiently.
Apparently these factors are less critical when it comes to the assembly of iMacs, which represents only a small percentage of Apple?s sales. While Apple might not have too much to lose from this shift, it might have a lot to gain with growing political and public pressure on companies to bring back jobs to the U.S. That will probably become more of an issue for Apple with the re-election of President Obama.
Add to that Apple?s never-ending problems at Foxconn, as well as the approach that CEO Tim Cook has to this issue, and suddenly this shift seems more understandable. We?ll have to wait and see to what extent this change helps the company reshape its public image and block more unpleasant questions about why the most successful American company manufactures abroad.
Which brings us to engineers. Apple?s close cooperation with suppliers to develop new products means that it is wedded to its supply chain in China. It needs engineers and managers on the ground to continuously monitor developments at its component suppliers and manufacturers. And as it plans a wider array of products, it needs more engineers in China than ever before and has been aggressively trying to hire them in Shanghai and Taipei.
That?s why manufacturing jobs aren?t the only ones that may be difficult to move back to the U.S.
Additionally..
If you look at the reasons why Apple is manufacturing in China, you will find it is not necessarily about costs. As New York Times reporter Charles Duhigg explained to Ira Glass on This American Life the difference in labor costs between making the iPhone in China and the U.S. is somewhere between $10-$65 per piece. The main reason, according to Duhigg, is the flexibility within the Chinese supply chain that allows it to meet Apple?s requirements quickly and efficiently.
Apparently these factors are less critical when it comes to the assembly of iMacs, which represents only a small percentage of Apple?s sales. While Apple might not have too much to lose from this shift, it might have a lot to gain with growing political and public pressure on companies to bring back jobs to the U.S. That will probably become more of an issue for Apple with the re-election of President Obama.
Add to that Apple?s never-ending problems at Foxconn, as well as the approach that CEO Tim Cook has to this issue, and suddenly this shift seems more understandable. We?ll have to wait and see to what extent this change helps the company reshape its public image and block more unpleasant questions about why the most successful American company manufactures abroad.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@morekaos:
I guess I should have wrote in crayon:
I guess I should have wrote in crayon:
irvinehomeowner said:
morekaos
Well-known member
I agree with the scale issues but with double digit unemployment I think we could find them however, we still lack the right kind of education ....
Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple?s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company?s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualifiekd engineers in the United States.
In China, it took 15 days.
Companies like Apple ?say the challenge in setting up U.S. plants is finding a technical work force,? said Martin Schmidt, associate provost at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In particular, companies say they need engineers with more than high school, but not necessarily a bachelor?s degree. Americans at that skill level are hard to find, executives contend. ?They?re good jobs, but the country doesn?t have enough to feed the demand,? Mr. Schmidt said.
Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple?s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company?s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualifiekd engineers in the United States.
In China, it took 15 days.
Companies like Apple ?say the challenge in setting up U.S. plants is finding a technical work force,? said Martin Schmidt, associate provost at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In particular, companies say they need engineers with more than high school, but not necessarily a bachelor?s degree. Americans at that skill level are hard to find, executives contend. ?They?re good jobs, but the country doesn?t have enough to feed the demand,? Mr. Schmidt said.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
This is funny. You are quoting articles that I had quoted on a different tech forum as to why Apple actually does production overseas (because someone was arguing how it was possible to do this in the US).
The things you are citing has nothing to do with deficiencies in the US or California, that is demographics. China has a much higher concentration of people who are educated in that manner because that's where the jobs are.
In Cali, there are a wide variety of jobs available and more spread, so it obviously harder to find that number of qualified engineers in a given area. You could use that same argument as to why Apple won't move manufacturing to Texas because if you can't find enough qualified engineers in Silicon Valley... imagine how much harder it would be to find them in oil country.
Again... you are steering the narrative.
Edit: I forgot to add... that's not a lack of education issue... that's still a scale issue.
The things you are citing has nothing to do with deficiencies in the US or California, that is demographics. China has a much higher concentration of people who are educated in that manner because that's where the jobs are.
In Cali, there are a wide variety of jobs available and more spread, so it obviously harder to find that number of qualified engineers in a given area. You could use that same argument as to why Apple won't move manufacturing to Texas because if you can't find enough qualified engineers in Silicon Valley... imagine how much harder it would be to find them in oil country.
Again... you are steering the narrative.
Edit: I forgot to add... that's not a lack of education issue... that's still a scale issue.
morekaos
Well-known member
Actually we have careened off on a tangent. I stand by my original narrative since I don't think Apple would move jobs back into Cali anyway. Again, if they do bring back jobs I would wager the bulk of them would be in other states. Maybe Texas, maybe not. Maybe Nevada maybe Colorado but definitely not here for all the reasons I outlined above. I am a native Californian. Born raised and educated right here in the South Bay. Probably will die here no matter how bad it gets, but that won't stop me from hoping it will get better. I hope I'm wrong, but I make a living being right.
The Motor Court Company
Well-known member
Irvine vs. Plano/Dallas
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/compare/92697?sfld1=Irvine,%20CA%20%2892697%29&sfld2=Plano,%20TX&clocid1=USCA0517&clocid2=
Irvine vs. Johns Creek/Atlanta
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/compare/92697?sfld1=Irvine,%20CA%20%2892697%29&sfld2=johns%20creek&clocid1=USCA0517&clocid2=
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/compare/92697?sfld1=Irvine,%20CA%20%2892697%29&sfld2=Plano,%20TX&clocid1=USCA0517&clocid2=
Irvine vs. Johns Creek/Atlanta
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/compare/92697?sfld1=Irvine,%20CA%20%2892697%29&sfld2=johns%20creek&clocid1=USCA0517&clocid2=
while we're on a tangent...there is no broad-based skilled labor gap. Skilled labor wages would be rising if there was a shortage as employers competed for talent. But skilled labor wages have been stagnant for many years.morekaos said:
The supposed gap is a self-serving and convenient myth perpetuated by corporate execs. Corp execs want *cheap*, skilled labor so they repeat the myth. And then the echo chamber takes over...
morekaos
Well-known member
thatOSguy said:
That is sort of my point. Wouldn't it have been better if those jobs stayed right here instead of losing half of them to TN? Or wouldn't the 4000 plus, six figure jobs in Plano TX serve our better interest if they moved TO Torrance instead of TX? These jobs were already here, all we had to do was keep them and we couldn't even do that.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@morekaos:
You are fudging your numbers for the dramatic. I don't think it's 4000+ 6-figure jobs, esp if half of them stay in Cali.
It's okay... like nature, Cali abhors a vacuum, more jobs will be created, for the 4000 positions taken away, 6000 will be created... that's the Cali economy.
You are fudging your numbers for the dramatic. I don't think it's 4000+ 6-figure jobs, esp if half of them stay in Cali.
It's okay... like nature, Cali abhors a vacuum, more jobs will be created, for the 4000 positions taken away, 6000 will be created... that's the Cali economy.
morekaos
Well-known member
Not according to this Forbes article...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/29/its-not-about-incentives-toyotas-texas-move-is-a-corporate-culture-gambit/
"There?s a lot for any state to like in landing Toyota?s headquarters. The average salaries for the 4,000 jobs in Plano will be in the six figures, sources said, far more than manufacturing wages ? meaning that Toyota?s Texas employees will have plenty of income to spread around."
But even if I stipulate it overstates the amount, what company is willing to move thousands of six figure jobs here today? Not Toyota, or Nissan or Schwab. Yes it makes the point in a stark, dramatic way.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/29/its-not-about-incentives-toyotas-texas-move-is-a-corporate-culture-gambit/
"There?s a lot for any state to like in landing Toyota?s headquarters. The average salaries for the 4,000 jobs in Plano will be in the six figures, sources said, far more than manufacturing wages ? meaning that Toyota?s Texas employees will have plenty of income to spread around."
But even if I stipulate it overstates the amount, what company is willing to move thousands of six figure jobs here today? Not Toyota, or Nissan or Schwab. Yes it makes the point in a stark, dramatic way.