irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
So much winning not having to pay for gas. 
Toyota moving to Texas
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NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
I think there are deals to be had (e.g., https://leasehackr.com/) but I also think that is the minority.
For owing to reallly payoff you need to own the car for about 7 years and then sell it to get around 20k back to offset the purchase price and taxes. If I buy an 80K car today, tax on that will be about $6,400. So that puts you at 86.4K. If after 7 years you sell it for 20K the cost of ownership (not including maintenance, etc) would put you at 66.4K, or about $790/month. A lease on an 80K BMW right now runs around $1,100 before tax. So with tax upwards of $1,200. If you sell a purchased car within 5 years you may be no worse off than leasing because of the depreciation hit plus you paid all of the taxes on the full private price. On a lease you pay taxes only on the amount of the depreciation. The residual on 2026 X5 is 53%. So 47% depreciation in 3 years, or about $37,600. So 37,600 + 6,400 in taxes = $44,000. 44k over 36 months is 1,222/month.
So to get the real value on a purchase you need to keep it for close to 7 years. And if you own a BMW/Porsche the out of warranty costs are insane. I’ve had over 10k of repairs done on the manufacturers extended warranty. So if I didn’t have the warranty, leasing may have been better and I would have had a new car with new tech every 3 years.
The simple argument is that leasing is worse than buying and that is generally the case if you are keeping the car 7+ years and the car doesn’t have any major repairs.
I have the extended warranty for another 1.5 years so will ride it out till then.
Nice black box logic. It’s very simple without all the “complexities” and “nuanced” finance that normal people just aren’t “sophisticated” enough to understand…BS!…it’s glorified renting and it rarely makes sense to do. One does not need a finance degree to know that
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
morekaos
Well-known member
You mean rent an EV? Leasing is for suckersThen lease an EV.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Smart money knows when leasing is better than buying. And you can always decide to buy a leased vehicle... for less than a purchase... IYKYK.
Speaking of Cali and Texas... Congress redistricting wars is going to be interesting.
Speaking of Cali and Texas... Congress redistricting wars is going to be interesting.
morekaos
Well-known member
Leasing only makes sense when you can write it off (which you can’t do anymore). Otherwise you are simply renting the vehicle. Leasing is for recent college grads trying to impress their friends and those who cannot afford to buy….suckers. Texas is just doing what California has already done to solidify a perpetual supermajority….thats politics and power, nothing new there.
Imnotmoving
Active member
I own a car and lease a car. I am not a sucker. But you seem to have a lot of opinions.Leasing only makes sense when you can write it off (which you can’t do anymore). Otherwise you are simply renting the vehicle. Leasing is for recent college grads trying to impress their friends and those who cannot afford to buy….suckers. Texas is just doing what California has already done to solidify a perpetual supermajority….thats politics and power, nothing new there.
morekaos
Well-known member
So why lease?
Imnotmoving
Active member
We keep a “fun” car for us. It’s up for rotation if we find something we like better…we categorize it as “entertainment”.
morekaos
Well-known member
OK, so it’s a “toy” or guilty pleasure that you can afford…then renting is totally appropriate. When people lease a primary vehicle these days it’s usually because they can’t afford purchase payments. Without tax incentives leasing makes bad financial sense. leases heavily favor the leasor financially
leases heavily favor the leasor financiallyImnotmoving
Active member
Nope no tax incentive. It’s fun for a few years and find another toy. Why work as hard as we have if there is no fun?OK, so it’s a “toy” or guilty pleasure that you can afford…then renting is totally appropriate. When people lease a primary vehicle these days it’s usually because they can’t afford purchase payments. Without tax incentives leasing makes bad financial sense.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
You must not understand how leases are structured. In today’s high interest environment, leasing can be more economical. But your close mindedness will not let you see otherwise. I would take the time to explain money factor curve, dealer lease incentives and residuals to you but you still won’t see it because you let your bias color facts.OK, so it’s a “toy” or guilty pleasure that you can afford…then renting is totally appropriate. When people lease a primary vehicle these days it’s usually because they can’t afford purchase payments. Without tax incentives leasing makes bad financial sense.
Imnotmoving
Active member
Are you being serious? Or is this a sarcastic answer?
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
It's a serious answer. Morekaos tends to comment using his opinion as facts. Ask him about why he can smell a fart through jeans as proof why masks offer zero protection.
morekaos
Well-known member
Nice black box logic. It’s very simple without all the “complexities” and “nuanced” finance that normal people just aren’t “sophisticated” enough to understand…BS!…it’s glorified renting and it rarely makes sense to do. One does not need a finance degree to know that
IHO, do you really disagree with this?
I think there are deals to be had (e.g., https://leasehackr.com/) but I also think that is the minority.
Imnotmoving
Active member
Not everything has to be a good deal. Sometimes you want what you want and that’s why we make money, you can’t live life only buying or leasing things if they are a deal. And as far as some of our fellow commenters, I’m not playing a game with a jerk. I guess it makes you feel good to be vaguely insulting.
qwerty
Well-known member
The good deals are pretty much on EVs on leasehackr. Then you see some good deals on cars nobody wants (jeeps, etc). I used to lease BMWs pre-covid, but the last two we bought.
For owing to reallly payoff you need to own the car for about 7 years and then sell it to get around 20k back to offset the purchase price and taxes. If I buy an 80K car today, tax on that will be about $6,400. So that puts you at 86.4K. If after 7 years you sell it for 20K the cost of ownership (not including maintenance, etc) would put you at 66.4K, or about $790/month. A lease on an 80K BMW right now runs around $1,100 before tax. So with tax upwards of $1,200. If you sell a purchased car within 5 years you may be no worse off than leasing because of the depreciation hit plus you paid all of the taxes on the full private price. On a lease you pay taxes only on the amount of the depreciation. The residual on 2026 X5 is 53%. So 47% depreciation in 3 years, or about $37,600. So 37,600 + 6,400 in taxes = $44,000. 44k over 36 months is 1,222/month.
So to get the real value on a purchase you need to keep it for close to 7 years. And if you own a BMW/Porsche the out of warranty costs are insane. I’ve had over 10k of repairs done on the manufacturers extended warranty. So if I didn’t have the warranty, leasing may have been better and I would have had a new car with new tech every 3 years.
The simple argument is that leasing is worse than buying and that is generally the case if you are keeping the car 7+ years and the car doesn’t have any major repairs.
I have the extended warranty for another 1.5 years so will ride it out till then.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Some things to think about:
1. Dealer/OEM rebates and incentives on leases are often times better than purchase (like conquest/loyalty discounts) even on non-EVs.
2. Money factor depreciation curve is straight line vs finance interest/principal curve.
3. You only pay sales tax on the monthly vs the entire vehicle.
4. You have more options at end of lease.
I don't look at leasing as renting, because you don't have the option of buying an apartment you rent. I see it more like try before you buy or even a way to drive a nicer car for the same payment. I don't put money down on leases and unlike purchases, there is usually built in gap insurance that will cover you on a total loss.
For EVs, purchase requirements have income and MSRP restrictions, leasing gets around that and you can decide to purchase your lease after only a month at a lower price but that depends on the deal.
There are more benefits but I don't really need to Option ARM anyone here. You decide what works for you but there are always benefits if you know the facts.
That's the problem with morekaos, he only looks at his preconceived notions... If he applied his Trump-colored glasses to other things, he may have a better outlook.
1. Dealer/OEM rebates and incentives on leases are often times better than purchase (like conquest/loyalty discounts) even on non-EVs.
2. Money factor depreciation curve is straight line vs finance interest/principal curve.
3. You only pay sales tax on the monthly vs the entire vehicle.
4. You have more options at end of lease.
I don't look at leasing as renting, because you don't have the option of buying an apartment you rent. I see it more like try before you buy or even a way to drive a nicer car for the same payment. I don't put money down on leases and unlike purchases, there is usually built in gap insurance that will cover you on a total loss.
For EVs, purchase requirements have income and MSRP restrictions, leasing gets around that and you can decide to purchase your lease after only a month at a lower price but that depends on the deal.
There are more benefits but I don't really need to Option ARM anyone here. You decide what works for you but there are always benefits if you know the facts.
That's the problem with morekaos, he only looks at his preconceived notions... If he applied his Trump-colored glasses to other things, he may have a better outlook.
morekaos
Well-known member
Exactly as I stated above…
Nice black box logic. It’s very simple without all the “complexities” and “nuanced” finance that normal people just aren’t “sophisticated” enough to understand…BS!…it’s glorified renting and it rarely makes sense to do. One does not need a finance degree to know that