The Death of Conservatism
- Thread starter IrvineRenter_IHB
- Start date
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
[quote author="skek" date=1234503726]<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/">These</a> guys and their internet groupies.</blockquote>
Why would anyone read that crap? It's like calculated risk for the brain-dead.
I haven't seen that much partisan self affirmation bullshit since I looked at Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity's site.
Why would anyone read that crap? It's like calculated risk for the brain-dead.
I haven't seen that much partisan self affirmation bullshit since I looked at Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity's site.
No_Such_Reality_IHB
New member
Hey, I found something fun to do. On zfacts, you can watch the live US National Debt clock.
It's cool, you can watch it click up. Click, click, click. Then I realized it's rolling up at $100,000 a second.
It's cool, you can watch it click up. Click, click, click. Then I realized it's rolling up at $100,000 a second.
green_cactus_IHB
New member
[quote author="skek" date=1234513763]Fair 'nuff, cactus, but your comments assume certain liberal conclusions and values. For example, what do you mean when you say they are "voting against their interests?" I hear that from my Democrat friends all the time. What if the voter wants to someday start a business? Or wants to be tough on terrorism? Or wants to enforce border security? Or wants to protect the rights of unborn children? Or just got sick of the Democrats cheerleading for our defeat in Iraq? He's got a million reasons why voting GOP is "in his interest," they are just reasons you don't agree with. You see my point? How do you know what's in his best interests, unless you presume to know better than he does? That always struck me as a pretty condescending comment.</blockquote>
Then you are agreeing that they do <strong>not</strong> vote their pocketbook - by interests I meant financial interests. Nothing condescending since one way they may end up better off than the other.
Then you are agreeing that they do <strong>not</strong> vote their pocketbook - by interests I meant financial interests. Nothing condescending since one way they may end up better off than the other.
GrewUpInIrvine_IHB
New member
I think that the budget monstrosity coming out of Sacramento last night was "The death of the Republican party (in California)." With spending, borrowing, and taxation like that, what is the point of having a republican party? I couldn't be more pissed off about Bush and what he did to the party. When a Republican brings in such an era of cronyism, spending, bail-outs, and a completely stupid war on the cheap, and I mean, on the cheap, the Republican party should not be shocked that the nation went in any other direction. I guess most importantly, what happened to middle of the road politicians? The blue-dog democrats, etc. I have never felt more taxed and completely unrepresented in my life. I spend all my time google-ing for the "opt out form." This system sucks.
ukyo116_IHB
New member
Ron Paul's 2/12/2009 Speech
What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is a predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others?
What if propping up repressive regimes in the Middle East endangers both the United States and Israel?
What if occupying countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and bombing Pakistan is directly related to the hatred directed toward us and has nothing to do with being free and prosperous?
What if someday it dawns on us that losing over 5,000 American military personnel in the Middle East since 9/11 is not a fair trade-off for the loss of nearly 3,000 American citizens, no matter how many Iraqi, Pakistani, and Afghan people are killed or displaced?
What if we finally decide that torture, even if called enhanced interrogation techniques, is self-destructive and produces no useful information and that contracting it out to a third world nation is just as evil?
What if it is finally realized that war and military spending is always destructive to the economy?
What if all wartime spending is paid for through the deceitful and evil process of inflating and borrowing?
What if we finally see that wartime conditions always undermine personal liberty?
What if conservatives, who preach small government, wake up and realize that our interventionist foreign policy provides the greatest incentive to expand the government?
What if conservatives understood once again that their only logical position is to reject military intervention and managing an empire throughout the world?
What if the American people woke up and understood that the official reasons for going to war are almost always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda in order to serve special interests?
What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations?
What if Obama has no intention of leaving Iraq?
What if a military draft is being planned for the wars that will spread if our foreign policy is not changed?
What if the American people learn the truth: that our foreign policy has nothing to do with national security and that it never changes from one administration to the next?
What if war and preparation for war is a racket serving the special interests?
What if President Obama is completely wrong about Afghanistan and it turns out worse than Iraq and Vietnam put together?
What if Christianity actually teaches peace and not preventive wars of aggression?
What if diplomacy is found to be superior to bombs and bribes in protecting America?
What happens if my concerns are completely unfounded. Nothing!
What happens if my concerns are justified and ignored. Nothing good!
What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is a predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others?
What if propping up repressive regimes in the Middle East endangers both the United States and Israel?
What if occupying countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and bombing Pakistan is directly related to the hatred directed toward us and has nothing to do with being free and prosperous?
What if someday it dawns on us that losing over 5,000 American military personnel in the Middle East since 9/11 is not a fair trade-off for the loss of nearly 3,000 American citizens, no matter how many Iraqi, Pakistani, and Afghan people are killed or displaced?
What if we finally decide that torture, even if called enhanced interrogation techniques, is self-destructive and produces no useful information and that contracting it out to a third world nation is just as evil?
What if it is finally realized that war and military spending is always destructive to the economy?
What if all wartime spending is paid for through the deceitful and evil process of inflating and borrowing?
What if we finally see that wartime conditions always undermine personal liberty?
What if conservatives, who preach small government, wake up and realize that our interventionist foreign policy provides the greatest incentive to expand the government?
What if conservatives understood once again that their only logical position is to reject military intervention and managing an empire throughout the world?
What if the American people woke up and understood that the official reasons for going to war are almost always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda in order to serve special interests?
What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations?
What if Obama has no intention of leaving Iraq?
What if a military draft is being planned for the wars that will spread if our foreign policy is not changed?
What if the American people learn the truth: that our foreign policy has nothing to do with national security and that it never changes from one administration to the next?
What if war and preparation for war is a racket serving the special interests?
What if President Obama is completely wrong about Afghanistan and it turns out worse than Iraq and Vietnam put together?
What if Christianity actually teaches peace and not preventive wars of aggression?
What if diplomacy is found to be superior to bombs and bribes in protecting America?
What happens if my concerns are completely unfounded. Nothing!
What happens if my concerns are justified and ignored. Nothing good!
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
[quote author="GrewUpInIrvine" date=1234741187] I guess most importantly, what happened to middle of the road politicians? The blue-dog democrats, etc.</blockquote>
We continue to be marginalized because we piss off everyone.
Republicans hate us because we recognize a level of taxation must exist.
Democrats hate us because we aren't in love with all of thier social initatives.
It's hard to get anything done in politics when everyone hates your guts, and it's worse when you are right. And I think myself and my fellow Blue Dog Dems are right, or I did until the private sector ecomony drove off a cliff.
We continue to be marginalized because we piss off everyone.
Republicans hate us because we recognize a level of taxation must exist.
Democrats hate us because we aren't in love with all of thier social initatives.
It's hard to get anything done in politics when everyone hates your guts, and it's worse when you are right. And I think myself and my fellow Blue Dog Dems are right, or I did until the private sector ecomony drove off a cliff.
freedomCM_IHB
New member
also, both the moderates in each party are attacked by the extremes.
this is most easily seen for the GOP, where anyone that will vote for taxes or to keep religion out of the public sphere is challenged in the primaries by a "right thinker".
It also happens to the Dems, mostly in large urban areas, i suspect. this is probably why there are a few more moderates in the Dem party still existent, since they come out of more suburban or rural districts.
this is most easily seen for the GOP, where anyone that will vote for taxes or to keep religion out of the public sphere is challenged in the primaries by a "right thinker".
It also happens to the Dems, mostly in large urban areas, i suspect. this is probably why there are a few more moderates in the Dem party still existent, since they come out of more suburban or rural districts.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1234877677]also, both the moderates in each party are attacked by the extremes.
this is most easily seen for the GOP, where anyone that will vote for taxes or to keep religion out of the public sphere is challenged in the primaries by a "right thinker".
It also happens to the Dems, mostly in large urban areas, i suspect. this is probably why there are a few more moderates in the Dem party still existent, since they come out of more suburban or rural districts.</blockquote>
It explains how Maxiene Waters.
FWIW, the most radical Republicans are out of suburban districts. It's a breeding ground for that kind of "My taxes are too high/Screw the poor/lock up the criminals/why do my public schools suck so bad/blame the unions" meme.
Few moderate Dems exist in suburban districts that I know of. If you find a rural Dem, they usually look like me. I'd like to vote GOP but I'm not a mini-Hoover (my grandparents came here from Oklahoma during the GD/Dust Bowl and the New Deal programs, while not perfect, made a huge difference to them) nor am I a flat-earther (the problem is excessive taxes and government waste and overregulation OBV........).
Curiously, as I get older, I care less and less. Oh, to be young and a YAFer.
this is most easily seen for the GOP, where anyone that will vote for taxes or to keep religion out of the public sphere is challenged in the primaries by a "right thinker".
It also happens to the Dems, mostly in large urban areas, i suspect. this is probably why there are a few more moderates in the Dem party still existent, since they come out of more suburban or rural districts.</blockquote>
It explains how Maxiene Waters.
FWIW, the most radical Republicans are out of suburban districts. It's a breeding ground for that kind of "My taxes are too high/Screw the poor/lock up the criminals/why do my public schools suck so bad/blame the unions" meme.
Few moderate Dems exist in suburban districts that I know of. If you find a rural Dem, they usually look like me. I'd like to vote GOP but I'm not a mini-Hoover (my grandparents came here from Oklahoma during the GD/Dust Bowl and the New Deal programs, while not perfect, made a huge difference to them) nor am I a flat-earther (the problem is excessive taxes and government waste and overregulation OBV........).
Curiously, as I get older, I care less and less. Oh, to be young and a YAFer.